A few questions for Muslims

[swariffin]

youre right i dont know the details of when jesus was supposably crucified. all i know is that Allah made it seem that Jesus was crucuified. do i know the details. NO. do i beleive that if Allah wished for that to happen then obviously you can have all the accounts from Romans, jews etc. my point is that it is possible for all historical accounts to be wrong if Allah has stated that the people were deceived. God is capable of anything you have to agree with this at least

Lastly i got a feeling this debate is futile.you will not accept the Quran so there is no point in using that as a basis for my arguement. lets just say you have your faith and I have mine, you will not believe in what i believe and i will not believe in what you believe (this is what the Quran tells us to say in situations like these)

God is capable of anything, except doing things that He forbid, my friend. The reason is simple. If God forbid you to lie, but He deceives people, then God is contradicting Himself.

You said that Jesus was not crucified was a common thing. That is true with respect to the Muslim, my friend. In your world, you are correct. The reason is simple. Those who disagree should has been eliminated already.

You want to base your argument based on Quran. Sure, we can accept that. But, please demonstrate to us that Quran is the word of God. How and why you believe that. Let us see that you have something in common to the rest of the world, not just common to your world only.

 

[Curious_Seed]

Why did allah deceive people into believing that Jesus was crucified?

To what end did allah cause Jesus’ mother Mary to believe Jesus died on the cross? Imagine her grieve. Why would allah put her through this?

Why the deceiving plan that Jesus was replaced or didn’t die?

Was the man who died in place of Jesus guilty of a crime? Who was it?

Why would allah cause what you believe to be a false religion [Christianity] to grow by faking Jesus’ death on the cross?

Did allah not know that because of all the eyewitnesses to the crucifixion that Christianity would grow to what it is today? Especially when compared to Mohammad who had no witnesses that an “angel” revealed anything to him.

Why allow people who saw Jesus die and placed in the tomb, to see Jesus walking around afterwards showing HIS wounds?

Allah is Arabic for God, as Dieu is French for God, or Dios is Spanish for God.

Christ is the Allah of Christians.

Why do you ask questions of a faith, for which you show little evidence of knowledge or respect, but much prejudice?

If learning were your genuine motive, it is better to ask an unbaited question, than to proselytize, by feigning interest with your hollow questioning.

 

[schaick]

First off all i stated at the start my answer was not definitive just my own personal view to which I did not even spend much time thinking about lol. it was just a quick vague answer which i probably should have elaborated on. secondly the reference to the movie was just a light hearted joke, thirdly please dont associate the word poppycock with islam. i find it offensive. if anything you have to agree that I have been polite and courteous in my reply. is it so hard to do the same back. i mean i find alot of christianity especially cathlicism extremly difficult to digest, often to the point of bewilderment. but i dont call it poppycock,

youre right i dont know the details of when jesus was supposably crucified. all i know is that Allah made it seem that Jesus was crucuified. do i know the details. NO. do i beleive that if Allah wished for that to happen then obviously you can have all the accounts from Romans, jews etc. my point is that it is possible for all historical accounts to be wrong if Allah has stated that the people were deceived. God is capable of anything you have to agree with this at least

OK,** so to what end did allah fake Jesus’ crucifixion?**

The Quran is supposed to be a clear book explaining everything. If Mohammad is trying to prove that the historians, everyone got the crucifixion wrong why doesn’t the Quran give more details?

Who replaced Jesus? When was Jesus replaced? How did Jesus allowed to walk around and show HIS Disciples that HE was alive?

Did poor Mary and HIS DIsciples know that it wasn’t Jesus being crucified?

Did allah tell Judas that it was to be a fake crucifixion?

Why did allah cause what would then be considered a false religion Christianity to start?

**All the Quran says is that the Jews for certain did not crucify Jesus. **

Your Quran never says there was a substitution, or that Jesus swooned [which FYI has also been disproved].

Lastly i got a feeling this debate is futile.you will not accept the Quran so there is no point in using that as a basis for my arguement. lets just say you have your faith and I have mine, you will not believe in what i believe and i will not believe in what you believe (this is what the Quran tells us to say in situations like these)

Interesting though your Quran confirms the Gospel message that has been in existence from the time Jesus lived- HE was the Gospel- Good News.

I used to say that the Gospel message was recorded very soon after Jesus rose to heaven. Actually we have the Gospel message in the Old Testament before the event. Laid out in prophecy which again your Quran confirms.

Genesis 3
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

Isaiah 53

**Psalm 22 **

ETC. Thre are many more these just scratch the surface.

 

[LtTony]

First off all i stated at the start my answer was not definitive just my own personal view to which I did not even spend much time thinking about lol. it was just a quick vague answer which i probably should have elaborated on. secondly the reference to the movie was just a light hearted joke, thirdly please dont associate the word poppycock with islam. i find it offensive. if anything you have to agree that I have been polite and courteous in my reply. is it so hard to do the same back. i mean i find alot of christianity especially cathlicism extremly difficult to digest, often to the point of bewilderment. but i dont call it poppycock,

youre right i dont know the details of when jesus was supposably crucified. all i know is that Allah made it seem that Jesus was crucuified. do i know the details. NO. do i beleive that if Allah wished for that to happen then obviously you can have all the accounts from Romans, jews etc. my point is that it is possible for all historical accounts to be wrong if Allah has stated that the people were deceived. God is capable of anything you have to agree with this at least

Lastly i got a feeling this debate is futile.you will not accept the Quran so there is no point in using that as a basis for my arguement. lets just say you have your faith and I have mine, you will not believe in what i believe and i will not believe in what you believe (this is what the Quran tells us to say in situations like these)

You admit you didn’t spend much time thinking about the issue and gave a “vague” reply. OK. I suggest for your own sake (spiritually speaking and for the purpose of serious discussion here) you think before you type.

Poppycock is not an offensive word. Frankly, I think muslims have the thinnest skin of any religion. Someone draws a cartoon… burn, loot, kill. That’ll teach’em.

You don’t have all the details of the crucifxion but you join a discussion, then seem perplexed when I crack back on you.

You say you “don’t know the details” of the crucifixion but “everyone knows it didn’t happen.” You don’t realize, however, how stupid that sounds: I don’t have the information on the event but I know the event didn’t happen.

Do you make all your important decisions – like religion – without information?

You can use the Koran for the basis of faith. That is fine.

What I’m saying is that: if Islam is going to dispute Christianity in the Koran, then for most important event in Christianity, the Koran is EXTREMELY lacking with a “they killed him not.”

As far as your last paragraph. I agree, but theres a difference here. Many of us have studied the Quran.

All we are suggesting is you take an honest look with an open mind at “Historic Christ” in regards to all authors be it Jews, Romans killing Christains at the time of Nero, or early Christians writters.

If you still believe what you believe? No harm, but I don’t think thats possible. Anyway the choice is yours. I just have never met anyone with an open mind who has studied Christ and not concluded His life and death are recorded as Bible states.

Its a very accurate piece of History. Emporers such as Napoleon who studied History wrote on Him also. Those who chose to destroy, the Huns at the gates of Rome with 60-Thousand soldiers. Walked away without a death convienced in the Supernatural power of Christ. It just goes on and on. But the Crucifixtion is well documented.

El Will, and any others who want to study early Christian history.

Before you do that, you need to discern and learn to find the materials that are honest, factual, historically accurate.

In the first place, you have to decide if you are seeking the truth. I mean, learning is a life long endeavor. So when you seek to read certain books, are you choosing them to support your bias?

God is capable of anything, except doing things that He forbid, my friend. The reason is simple. If God forbid you to lie, but He deceives people, then God is contradicting Himself.

You want to base your argument based on Quran. Sure, we can accept that. But, please demonstrate to us that Quran is the word of God. How and why you believe that. Let us see that you have something in common to the rest of the world, not just common to your world only.

OK,** so to what end did allah fake Jesus’ crucifixion?**

The Quran is supposed to be a clear book explaining everything. If Mohammad is trying to prove that the historians, everyone got the crucifixion wrong why doesn’t the Quran give more details?

 

[thegame_786]

You admit you didn’t spend much time thinking about the issue and gave a “vague” reply. OK. I suggest for your own sake (spiritually speaking and for the purpose of serious discussion here) you think before you type.

Poppycock is not an offensive word. Frankly, I think muslims have the thinnest skin of any religion. Someone draws a cartoon… burn, loot, kill. That’ll teach’em.

You don’t have all the details of the crucifxion but you join a discussion, then seem perplexed when I crack back on you.

You say you “don’t know the details” of the crucifixion but “everyone knows it didn’t happen.” You don’t realize, however, how stupid that sounds: I don’t have the information on the event but I know the event didn’t happen.

Do you make all your important decisions – like religion – without information?

You can use the Koran for the basis of faith. That is fine.

What I’m saying is that: if Islam is going to dispute Christianity in the Koran, then for most important event in Christianity, the Koran is EXTREMELY lacking with a “they killed him not.”

Lets forget all this for a minute. Let me just give one example of how words are bieng twisted. I said I don’t know the details of the crucufixition. fair enough. I also don’t know the exact details of how JFK was assassinated but i get the gist.
secondly ive been reading through my posts on this, maybe i’m tired and can’t see properly but at what point did i say that i don’t know much about the crucifixtion AND but everyone knows its not true. I just said the former. you attributed the latter to me and then start calling me stupid lol. the thing is even if i did say everyone (which i’m still denying) its fairly obvious that i would mean muslims by that. even if i did say that it would be fairly simple to understand what i meant by it. there are enough of us to call us everyone. we are everywhere lol.

 

[LtTony]

Hello game. I am tired too but I will try to explain where I am coming from.

I suggest you go back to your first post in the thread. Then read my reply. Then your reply to that. Then mine. Yours. Mine.

If that doesn’t help, we can take it step by step.

You wrote: it is common knowledge that Jesus (pbuh) was NOT crucified. Well at least thats what muslims believe.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7816000&postcount=62

I replied: Common knowledge? ROFLMAO Common knowledge to muslims.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7817817&postcount=63

You then wrote: just my own personal view to which I did not even spend much time thinking about lol. it was just a quick vague answer which i probably should have elaborated on.
youre right i dont know the details of when jesus was supposably crucified. all i know is that Allah made it seem that Jesus was crucuified. do i know the details. NO.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7818380&postcount=67

I replied: "You admit you didn’t spend much time thinking about the issue and gave a “vague” reply. OK. I suggest for your own sake (spiritually speaking and for the purpose of serious discussion here) you think before you type.
"You say you “don’t know the details” of the crucifixion but “everyone knows it didn’t happen.” You don’t realize, however, how stupid that sounds: I don’t have the information on the event but I know the event didn’t happen.
"Do you make all your important decisions – like religion – without information?

“You don’t have all the details of the crucifxion but you join a discussion, then seem perplexed when” I ridicule your (lack of) rationale.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=7822155&postcount=75

You really come off as confused in this last reply when you wrote, “I said I don’t know the details of the crucufixition. fair enough.” Then asked this: “at what point did i say that i don’t know much about the crucifixtion.”

“I said I don’t know the details of the crucufixition. fair enough.”
“at what point did i say that i don’t know much about the crucifixtion”

When did you say you didn’t know much about the crucifixion? Uh, when you said you don’t know the details of that aforementioned event.
But you know the “gist.” Which is the basics, but opinions vary on the basics. For muslims its “they killed him not.” Period.
I sure hope some of this is getting through.

I also now have a better understanding of “it is common knowledge that Jesus (pbuh) was NOT crucified. Well at least thats what muslims believe.” You definitely mean it is common among muslims.
I still think muslims like yourself, who haven’t thoughtfully examined the crucifixion, to be lacking in their thought process.

Finally, you can believe anything you want, obviously. But if you’re going to get into a discussion on it – at least with me around – you had better know the details.

Salaam.

 

[swariffin]

Lets forget all this for a minute. Let me just give one example of how words are bieng twisted. I said I don’t know the details of the crucufixition. fair enough. I also don’t know the exact details of how JFK was assassinated but i get the gist.
secondly ive been reading through my posts on this, maybe i’m tired and can’t see properly but at what point did i say that i don’t know much about the crucifixtion AND but everyone knows its not true. I just said the former. you attributed the latter to me and then start calling me stupid lol. the thing is even if i did say everyone (which i’m still denying) its fairly obvious that i would mean muslims by that. even if i did say that it would be fairly simple to understand what i meant by it. there are enough of us to call us everyone. we are everywhere lol.

OK then, my friend. Let us say that you are not saying the abovementioned highlighted phrase. Forget about that. And, you said that you don’t know much about the crucifixion. My question is, what do you think about the crucifixion to the best of your knowledge?

 

[Abu_Toshiba]

Why did allah deceive people into believing that Jesus was crucified?

To what end did allah cause Jesus’ mother Mary to believe Jesus died on the cross? Imagine her grieve. Why would allah put her through this?

Why the deceiving plan that Jesus was replaced or didn’t die?

Was the man who died in place of Jesus guilty of a crime? Who was it?

Why would allah cause what you believe to be a false religion [Christianity] to grow by faking Jesus’ death on the cross?

Did allah not know that because of all the eyewitnesses to the crucifixion that Christianity would grow to what it is today? Especially when compared to Mohammad who had no witnesses that an “angel” revealed anything to him.

Why allow people who saw Jesus die and placed in the tomb, to see Jesus walking around afterwards showing HIS wounds?

I really resent the words in the post, most likely due to the ignorance of the author,but none less bad choice of words. I can certainly try to clear up the many misconceptions you appear to have, but remember that a closed heart and mind is oblivious to even the simplest truths.

Why did allah deceive people into believing that Jesus was crucified?

the word ‘‘people’’, to whom is it suppose to refer here ?

To what end did allah cause Jesus’ mother Mary to believe Jesus died on the cross?
Imagine her grieve. Why would allah put her through this?

What made you think in the first place that Allah caused Jesus’s mother, Mary (may God be pleased with her) to believe her son died on the corss ?

Why the deceiving plan that Jesus was replaced or didn’t die?

What is it that you refer to as ‘‘deception’’, is it Allah coming to the aid of His messenger and helping him against his ennemies ?

Why would allah cause what you believe to be a false religion [Christianity] to grow by faking Jesus’ death on the cross?

What made you believe that we believe that christianity is a false religion, in the first place ? and as for the second part of the question, it doesnt really make any sense since you assume the following: that the crucifiction or the ‘‘cruci-fiction’’ as you put it is what caused Christianity to grow

Did allah not know that because of all the eyewitnesses to the crucifixion that Christianity would grow to what it is today? Especially when compared to Mohammad who had no witnesses that an “angel” revealed anything to him.

Christianity didnt grow to what it is today because of eyewitnesses, this is a false assertion. However in the case of Islam, we can say that it grew because of ‘‘eyewitnesses’’ and what I mean by that is that in contrast to Christianity and in the way and reasons of its spreading … Islam was spread and established trought the land during the lifetime of Muhammad (saw) and by Muhammad (saw) himself and his compagnions, but the same could not be said about Christianity.

Why allow people who saw Jesus die and placed in the tomb, to see Jesus walking around afterwards showing HIS wounds?

Who are exactly the people who assisted to the alleged ‘death’ of Jesus (pbuh) ? do you have any names that comes to your mind ?

Peace be upon those who follow the Guidance

[the Noble Qur’an 6:71]
Say: “Shall we indeed call on others besides Allah― things that can do us neither good nor harm― and turn on our heels after receiving guidance from Allah― like one whom the evil ones have made into a fool, wandering bewildered through the earth, his friends calling `Come to us’ (vainly) guiding him to the Path.” Say: "Allah’s guidance is the (only) guidance, and we have been directed to submit ourselves to the Lord of the worlds;―

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Adult and respectful discussion is STRONGLY suggested

 

[JWilsn]

My brother, do you realize its a historical fact Jesus Christ was crucified. Written history of the Jews, Romans, and Christians confirm it. And just as biblically stated.

Do yourself a favor. Forget Christianity, forget Islam, and go to library with a clear, open mind and study Jesus Christ is History.

Why Jesus had to die in the first place ?

Must he die ? If yes, then must he die as God?

Was Jesus willing to die ? If yes, then is it not a wish to commit suicide ?

 

[JWilsn]

When Christians forcefully insist on Jesus’ crucifixion (based on their own imagination or understanding or preconceived thoughts or interpretation of their Books or just inherited blind faith), it is obvious for you to face the counter questions from the other side of aisle who did not believe Jesus was crucified (based on what they read in your Books with open eyes and with without any preconceived ideas).

Please just answer the questions if you can, otherwise leave the task to other genuine Christians.

Again, I repeat my questions :

**Why Jesus had to die in the first place ?

Must he die ? If yes, then must he die as God?

Was Jesus willing to die ? If yes, then is it not a wish to commit suicide ?**