A few things about homosexuality

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sanctamaria17

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I believe we can all agree that homosexual actions are sinful and that all of us are called to be chaste. As human beings, we all have our dignity as children of God and are all unworthy yet Jesus died for us anyway. Our Blessed Mother is a strong advocate for all of us and can help us all on the path to be chaste and pure before God.

Can we please have more encouragement for those of us who struggle with SSA? By encouragement, I mean the following:
  1. More positive messages about chastity, less negative messages on homosexuality (when the sin is the same if you have premarital sex with a person of the opposite gender. The only difference is that there’s the potential for marriage in a heterosexual couple, just not for a homosexual couple).
  2. We understand that the actions are sinful. However, can we all agree that violence carried out on people based on mere orientation is wrong? Or that firing someone because of orientation and not because of poor job performance is wrong?
  3. Homosexuality does NOT a pedophile make! There is ample evidence to prove that crimes of this nature are more likely to be committed by someone who identifies as straight. Not only that, people of all orientations can agree that destroying a child’s innocence is a heinous crime and deserves a hefty punishment.
  4. Instead of telling the general public (many of whom are not Catholic) how they should or should not behave, why can’t we focus more of our attention on Catholics who are struggling with chastity of all kinds? We’re not winning anyone over by telling them what to do. How about we focus on spreading a more positive message on chastity all around and on redemptive suffering (as homosexuality is a challenge)?
Finally, yes, I am out. Why am I out? Because I want to show people that it IS possible to take something you can’t control and give it back to God. It is possible to live a chaste life, regardless of circumstance. God still loves us and wants to help us be pure for Him, without falling into sin.

Chastity is a beautiful way to live, in any state of life, whether through celibacy if unmarried, or the rightful expression of sexuality in (valid) marital love. Let’s put negativity aside and help people see the beauty.

To all our brothers and sisters of alternative sexualities, God has not abandoned you! The Church has not abandoned you, even if people can be negative about it! You’re still loved by God, and He’ll help you live the way He wants you to live! Chastity is a call to all God’s children. God created us and He made us to love people purely.

I’ll admit, for awhile I struggled with the Church’s teachings on the subject (though I didn’t really admit it on the forums). Now, I see why she teaches the way she does and I can accept them in their beauty and fullness.
 
Sanctamaria… I agree with you, we are called to love all people and detest the sins. To be violent to homosexuals is to pass judgment upon them and to act as God in assigning punishment and is not the right of any human.

As far as pedophiles goes, you are right in saying that heterosexuals are guilty as well, but, and please take this with all sincerity… People who are indulging in the sin of disordered sex are many times disordered in their thinking (this goes for homo and hetero’s as well) and therefore more likely to cross lines into deeper sin. Since homosexuals that are “practicing” are all practicing disordered acts, while heterosexuals are not, it makes these statistics seem more linked to homosexuals than heterosexuals… kwim?

When you talk about the Catholic vs non-Catholic morality, you have to remember that Catholics have the benefit of magesterial teaching and 2 centuries of a leader that upholds the teachings on morality from the time of Christ. Other religions have only the Bible, so what comes as a matter of course for Catholics, tends to to a matter of self interpretation for Protestants. That being said, we must remember to consider not only our audience as you have suggested, but we do have a mandate to teach the morality we know comes from God. Would God want us to live according to his Law and not spread his message? Now, don’t get me wrong, I agree that the way we spread God’s message must be with love and patience and non-judgmental, but those are skills that not everybody has.

I praise you for your commitment to chastity and your struggles. You are a wonderful example of love and obedience to God’s Word. I believe it takes someone who has struggled with these issues to be able to reach the people who are also struggling and to be able to show them that they are as always, Children of the Father and the brother of our Savior and worthy of all that means…
 
Sanctamaria:

Just one note.

MORE pedophilia is committed by heterosexuals than homosexuals.

This is because there are many, many more heterosexuals.

Homosexuals as a group are MORE LIKELY to commit pedophilia than a comparable sized group of heterosexuals.

There is a larger percentage of pedophiliac homosexuals than pedophiliac heterosexuals. This may just be because the younger boys are easier targets.
 
sanctamaria17 said:
I agree with some of your concepts. Homosexuals know they are to live a chaste live just are the heterosexuals are.

You say pre-marital sin is a mortal sin but it will end up in marriage, but what right do you think having pre-marital sex is all right? You would be sinning just like the homosexual person.

We are ALL called to live a celibate life. It doesn’t mean because someone is having pre-mariatl sex that they are going to get married.

The Church has NEVERED condemed sexual orientation, but has the actions of it. We really cannot judge a homosexual unless you have had experience with it. If they think what they are doing is fine, how can you or I change their mind?

I do not agree with your analogy because one is having pre-marital sex, it will lead into marriage. If you respected the girl, you would wait until marriage. So, whoever is engages in pre-marital sex is just as guilty as the homosexual getting involved in the actions. And, I know some homosexuals who prey on boys and teenagers, so it is just not the pedophile. Excuse my typing errors.

WHen a person has reached the age of reason, they know what is right and wrong. Christ loves the homosexual just as he likes you. He doesn’t like the actions, but as an oriented person, Christ loves him.
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SanctaMaria, I applaud your courage and your wonderful post. I’m in complete agreement. Jesus loves us all, and we should imitate that. :yup::doh2: God bless you - and I’m sure He will.

St. Bruno, thanks for the link. Great article.

To some of the other posters:

In my understanding, pedophilia is the sick desire for prepubescent, or barely pubescent, children. Under that definition, it is primarily practiced by those who in their relations with adults, consider themselves “straight.”

Ephebophilia, if I have the term right, is the (still sick) desire for teenage males (post-puberty, but still children), and is a male homosexual problem. I believe that ephebophiles are in the vast minority of homosexuals.

Nobody has done this - but to accuse all homosexuals of being child molesters is wrong, ignorant, and judgmental. :mad:

Ruthie, who has more reason to love homosexuals of both genders than most.
 
Genesis12345 said:
sanctamaria17;4271952:
I agree with some of your concepts. Homosexuals know they are to live a chaste live just are the heterosexuals are.
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You say pre-marital sin is a mortal sin but it will end up in marriage, but what right do you think having pre-marital sex is all right? You would be sinning just like the homosexual person.

We are ALL called to live a celibate life. It doesn’t mean because someone is having pre-mariatl sex that they are going to get married.

The Church has NEVERED condemed sexual orientation, but has the actions of it. We really cannot judge a homosexual unless you have had experience with it. If they think what they are doing is fine, how can you or I change their mind?

I do not agree with your analogy because one is having pre-marital sex, it will lead into marriage. If you respected the girl, you would wait until marriage. So, whoever is engages in pre-marital sex is just as guilty as the homosexual getting involved in the actions. And, I know some homosexuals who prey on boys and teenagers, so it is just not the pedophile. Excuse my typing errors.

WHen a person has reached the age of reason, they know what is right and wrong. Christ loves the homosexual just as he likes you. He doesn’t like the actions, but as an oriented person, Christ loves him.

WOW, WOW, WOW!! I was NOT CONDONING premarital sex of any kind, it’s ALWAYS a mortal sin!

I was merely pointing out that it’s harder for a homosexual person because they CAN’T marry the partner and thus rectify the relationship and put it in God’s focus, because to be right with God, you’d have to give up the relationship. I was also pointing out that with straight couples, you have the “chance” to make things right with marriage. Not the case with gay couples, but that the sin of premarital sex was the same.

And, btw, I am a girl, and I am waiting till marriage (to a man, if marriage isn’t for me, then for life).
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sanctamaria17 said:
  1. More positive messages about chastity, less negative messages on homosexuality (when the sin is the same if you have premarital sex with a person of the opposite gender. The only difference is that there’s the potential for marriage in a heterosexual couple, just not for a homosexual couple).
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Well they are both grave sins but pre-marital sex is not an act of depravity or unnatural.
Homosexual activity is worse then heterosexual pre-marital sex.

CCC 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
 
sanctamaria17 said:
  1. Instead of telling the general public (many of whom are not Catholic) how they should or should not behave, why can’t we focus more of our attention on Catholics who are struggling with chastity of all kinds? We’re not winning anyone over by telling them what to do. How about we focus on spreading a more positive message on chastity all around and on redemptive suffering (as homosexuality is a challenge)?
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Telling the public how they ought to behave will achieve nothing.

Setting the example speaks louder.

Some say knowledge is power. They are wrong. Character is power. Your good character is your greatest possession and the most precious gem in society.

What is character? Unity of thought, word and action. In a word, integrity. Good character is the triple purity of thought, word and action. When these are in alignment, in other words, when what we think, say and do are in harmony (and not in conflict with conscience), then we are exhibiting character, we are acting with integrity, we are setting a peerless example. THIS is the righteousness that St Paul speaks of.

So remember, knowledge is not power. Character is power.

Character is unity of thought, word and action.

Integrity is the triple purity of thought, word and action.

When we act with harmony of thought, word and deed, we are acting with good character. We are acting with purity of thought, purity of words, purity of actions, then we are not only acting with good character, we are embodying integrity. Righteousness is PURITY of thought, word and action.

Only in this manner do actions speak louder than words or telling people about any struggle.
 
Hey Sanctamaria,

Well, that was quite a piece a work you wrote.

I don’t know all the details of orientation and such, beyond sodomy being a mortal sin. To my way of thinking, if you live a chase life, you are not gay. You are just like the rank and file. Am I wrong? I don’t think I am.

You said you were out. I don’t think that can be, because you are not a homosexual. I mean, you tell me. You cant run with the fox and the hounds at the same time.

You are one of us, not one of them.
 
It’s not really “us vs. them”…if she percieves herself as being attracted to women and affixes the term bisexual to it…then she can be “out” as a queer person even if she is married to a man and living chastely. Being “out” is about announcing your orientation, which for many people is fixed, and not about your actions.
 
No, I refuse to accept an “us vs. them” mentality because we’re all children of God and struggle with our own things.

Yes, I do identify as queer even though I choose to live chastely and in accordance with the Church for a few reasons:
  1. I want to show that it is possible to live chastely regardless.
  2. I want to show that not all gay/bi people conform to horribly negative stereotypes, whether they be about chastity, treatment of children, or even the whole, “you can’t be feminine if you’re not straight.”
  3. I know first hand how hard it is and I will use it to fight for people to be treated with respect regardless and to stand for chastity for all.
And honestly, I don’t see how extending dignity and respect to someone with a different orientation is the same as condoning pedophilia. Pedophilia is the gross attraction to children which leads to abuse of them. Homosexuality is confined to adults. And child abuse is one thing that the gay communities in my area are active in fighting against, as well as sexual assault and domestic violence. While I don’t condone their lifestyle, I still commend them for the other good things they do, as I would my straight friends who were having premarital sex but still doing good things.

And it doesn’t necessarily impede on your ability to interact with people normally. I haven’t had any issues with roommates, locker rooms, etc. It doesn’t impact my spiritual life except to make it stronger (because I pray more for chastity for all of us and for all of us to love each other, despite our faults). If I’m ever tempted, I just praise God for creating a beautiful person and ask Him for chastity and move on with my life.

I don’t know about the rates thing. That’s like saying step parents are more likely to abuse their stepchildren (another rate thing), yet we wont’ deny that there are plenty of awesome step parents, many of whom are on these forums.
 
It seems to me that a lot of, shall we say “less than charitable” discussion of homosexuals is fueled by a reaction to the in-your-face-homosexual-activist crowd and by those who bastardize scritpure to make it seem as if the Lord himself endorsed it when he was among us. I have to admit that such things tend to get my own dander up.

I also took note of Yip’s statement, " To my way of thinking, if you live a chase life, you are not gay."

It’s interesting to me that in some circles, SSA=gay and in some SSA=SSA and gay=homosexually active. That distinction is important, as “orientation” is often used as a springboard to say homosexuality is natural and OK as are the physical acts that can go along with it.

A good mantra in general and particularly when discussing homosexuality, SSA and the like, methinks is “Separate the sin from the sinner”, as the Almighty does. 👍

This is a good thread.
 
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