A Flag in the Sand - Non Denominational

[Curious]

Think of a small child playing at her toy kitchen. She copies everything she’s seen her mother do and it’s adorable. Her parents are watching her, smiling, as she tries to act sooo grown up.

I think that God might look at non-Catholics in much the same way. He watches lovingly as they read His Word and worship Him, and He smiles because He knows they love Him. But when worship and Sunday school are over, He says briskly “OK kids, that was nice, but now it’s time for Mass!!”

You’re honestly comparing all Protestants to silly little children who God tolerates out of His love?
Give me a break.

 

[Little_Mary]

Curious:

You’re honestly comparing all Protestants to silly little children who God tolerates out of His love?
Give me a break.

Curious, this thread is not about all protestants. It is about handful of non-denominational believers that I come into contact with regularly. These people have very definite opinions about the CAtholic faith and they are all negative and they are based on misconceptions. (For instance, I am currently in a discussion with a Baptist minister who insisted that the Immaculate Conception is concerned with the conception of Jesus. When I corrected him, he told me I was wrong !!).

This thread is about that same handful of self proclaimed “non-denominational” people that I know who, to use their words “don’t want to stick their flag in the sand with any one denomination and say ‘this is it, this is the only way to salvation’” They call themselves more “spiritual” than “religious”.

I say to them fine, do what you want, but stop criticizing that which you do not know or at least hear the truth. They say “I don’t want to hear it” and move away. To me, that flag is in the sand hardened in concrete.

"I don’t care if you disagree with what I believe, but disagree with what I really believe"

 

[Curious]

Bleh. My bad Little Mary.

 

[mark_a]

I had a co-worker who, although not a devout Catholic, joined a non-denominational church because of the shame of the priest abuse scandal.

My priest said once that it is better for a bad Catholic to leave and become a good (fill in the blank), than to remain a Catholic.

 

[Malachi4U]

Katholikos:

…But they all agree on one thing: The Catholic Church is wrong.

JMJ Jay

JMJ
Jay,

Shouldn’t that read, “But they all agree on one thing: ‘ONLY’ the Catholic Church is wrong.”

You can believe any absurd thing you want about Jesus and it’s all OK - with one exception of course. The Catholics are allways wrong no matter what!:whacky:

 

[scylla]

The great thing about Non Denominational Churches is that many of them get people to wake up and read some of the Bible and care about their relationship with God.
Even though they never paid attention in the Catholic Church and were Cafeteria Catholics, (just going to church but only going through the motions) now they are ripe for a full relationship with God.

Their love of Jesus should, if they really love Jesus, allow them to follow Him even if it leads…(gasp!) to the Catholic Church. I love to talk to my friends at the Calvary Chapel and welcome every opportunity to share with them. They might have heard a little too much anti-Catholicism but it is our duty to lead them to the fullness of the faith. I eagerly anticipate chances when I can go to their Church, they are our brothers and sisters. They love Jesus so they are halfway there!
I followed Jesus from a Non-Denominational Church to His Church, anyone who loves Jesus will do it if they are shown in a loving manner the truth.

 

[Maccabees]

mark a:

I had a co-worker who, although not a devout Catholic, joined a non-denominational church because of the shame of the priest abuse scandal.

My priest said once that it is better for a bad Catholic to leave and become a good (fill in the blank), than to remain a Catholic.

Oh gee wait till their is scandal in her new church will she bolt then when she figures out even protestant church clergy is not free from sin? We don’t worship the priest only Jesus saves us only Jesus is on our crucifex only Jesus is in our eucharist.
I am disgusted by the actions of these priests but our faith as catholics is much bigger than having our priests all perfect we have christ that is perfect our faith is in christ perfect sacrifice his sinlessness he died for the sins of our priests and my sins.

I wouldn’t agree in all cases it is better for all dissenters to leave the church but at certain point it is better to leave when your dissenting the core beliefs of the church for example John Kerry is at the point where he should be honest with himself and just leave. I head today he is now an expert on catholocism and just declared he is just like most catholics in that they approve of Roe V Wade as law but not as a practice in thier own lives.
Really? I doubt this is a survey of weekly or daily communicates but rather the larger segment of non-practicing catholic the nations largest denom or the christmas and easter catholics.
John Kerry is in no way on the same wavelength as the devout catholic he tries to pass himself as.

 

[Little_Mary]

mark a:

I had a co-worker who, although not a devout Catholic, joined a non-denominational church because of the shame of the priest abuse scandal.

My priest said once that it is better for a bad Catholic to leave and become a good (fill in the blank), than to remain a Catholic.

To your co-worker: Shame on you!! Blame the man, not the institution. Come back and learn your faith.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

My priest said once that it is better for a bad Catholic to leave and become a good (fill in the blank), than to remain a Catholic.

Hi Mark, Now if this was a true statement the church would be less than half full. God Bless

 

[SPOKENWORD]

mark a:

I had a co-worker who, although not a devout Catholic, joined a non-denominational church because of the shame of the priest abuse scandal.

My priest said once that it is better for a bad Catholic to leave and become a good (fill in the blank), than to remain a Catholic.

 

[Mickey]

SPOKENWORD:

Hi Mark, Now if this was a true statement the church would be less than half full. God Bless

Are you judging Catholic parishioners as a whole—or just kicking shins?

 

[Peace-bwu]

My experience with a non-denominational church has not been a very positive one. A lady I have been close friends with for nearly 5 years belongs to the local non-denom. church. Throughout our friendship we have had lively religious discussions. She occasionally had questions about the Catholic Church which I didn’t mind answering. She invited me to a ladies Bible study at her church. I went with an open, yet unwaiveringly Catholic mind. What I saw turned me off completely. The lady leading the group made judgemental comments about a few people who were not there, and she was about as knowledgable as a jar of play doh when it came to questions she spoke with so much authority but her answers were so basic and “off the mark” People would read the scripture and give their interpretation, but all interpretations seemed to be accepted, like there was no clear right and wrong way to interpret what St. Paul meant by “the body of Christ” in his letters, and I had the impression that the leader didn’t actually know what it meant. I thought about going back the next week but I thought it would be bad for my friendship to go into her church and contradict everything they were saying. Later, my friend told me that the other Catholic lady who goes there (she speaks Spanish and barely English) was "ganged up on’ with all of them yelling at her asking her why Catholics think they need a priest to forgive them of their sins. That day I wished I had been there to show them the exact Scripture. I slowly realized that my friend was only trying to save me from Catholocism. Every time I saw her she would ask the same questions over and over, like she never really listened to the answers. The kicker was the last time my children and i were at her house she started asking me about priests molesting children ( we had already had this discussion many times) and she asked me if I was worried to let my children go to Children’s church during Mass or CCD. I tried to be patient when I replied that I don’t fullly trust *anyone *alone with my children. I had never in 30 years had any problems with priests and neither has anyone in my family. It was well-known in my public highschool that 2 of the teachers molested their own daughters. Child preditors are in every facet of society, they look for easy access to children. The estimate is that less than 2% of the population of priests has been accused of these crimes, and I’m not letting a handfull of priests take the church founded by Christ 2,000 yrs ago and His true presence in the Eucharist away from me or my children. That would be letting Satan win. I will never turn away from the Body of Christ. I dont’ think she liked that answer because she has never called me since. It was painful to realize that our friendship was built on the hidden agenda of trying to convert me to her church.
**Non-denomonational is a denomonation and their preacher takes the place of the Pope, whenever anyone has a question, they always go to their minister to help with interpretation.

 

[Peace-bwu]

Katholikos:

Just remember that “nondenominational” is another term for “independent” – or “unaffiliated.” It just means that they are not affiliated with any denomination. That makes them a denomination of one – an authority unto themselves. Thus they have their own biblical interpretations, create their own doctrines, design their own practices – in short, they do as they please without any interference or authority whatsoever over them. The pastor is pope.

Recall James Jones, David Koresh, et al. Scary business, these independents. They are like a boat without an anchor, a ship without a rudder, a plane without a guidance system. Most of them will be okay, but with the wrong leader, they can run amok.

JMJ Jay

Wow, I didnt’ read this before I posted but this was exactly my point! Well put! I only read the first few posts before commenting and didn’t know there was a discussion about molesting priests going on. Maybe the priest scandal is a familiar tool of the no-deonomonational denomonation, because it was a favorite of my friend.

 

[Kevan]

Peace-bwu:

I dont’ think she liked that answer because she has never called me since. It was painful to realize that our friendship was built on the hidden agenda of trying to convert me to her church.

You are correct. She wasn’t showing the love of Christ.

Non-denomonational is a denomonation and their preacher takes the place of the Pope, whenever anyone has a question, they always go to their minister to help with interpretation.

Catholics consider the Pope’s interpretation to have authority because he’s the Pope. Most Protestants, including nondenominational ones, do not consider their pastor to have any more authority to interpret the Bible than they themselves do. For this reason, it is incorrect to liken the pastor to a pope.

They ask their pastor because he’s a professional student of the Bible and likely knows something they don’t know. It’s no different than people asking me, a plumber, what to do about their toilet problem. I have no authority over their plumbing; I just tell them what I know.

 

[RobedWithLight]

Little Mary:

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I seem to be running into a lot of people lately who are “non-denominational” . It seems to be the latest fad. They love and follow Jesus but don’t care for what they call “organized religion”. They like to describe themselves as more “spiritual” then “religious”. As one firmly told me, “I’m not going to stick a flag in the sand (i.e. any certain denomination) and say ‘this is it, this is the way to heaven’”.

Non-denominationalism is nothing more than a denominationalism of individuals. If one doesn’t consider himself as part of a group, then eventually the person himself becomes THE group. It is a nonsensical, unscriptural fad that probably won’t survive this new century.

Gerry

 

[djrakowski]

Kevan:

It isn’t really fair to say that the pastor is pope in those churches. In all that I’ve seen, the pastor says “Check it in the Bible. If what I’m saying doesn’t agree with the word, you follow the word.” They don’t consider their authority to be anywhere near the authority of the Bible.

Our pastor has said almost those exact words, only adding, “and if you ever hear me preach something from this pulpit that doesn’t accord with Scripture, fire me immediately and find a suitable replacement.”

Kevan:

Also, for what it’s worth, a church can’t survive unless there’s something of a consensus regarding beliefs. That acts as a check on doctrinal wandering. Despite some of the weirdness that issues from some nondenominational churches, most of them profess agreement with the fundamental doctrines of Protestant Christianity.

Which is why we have a statement of faith with Scripture references to back up the individual articles.

 

[INRI]

Non-denominational churches (been there, done that) are the end product of the Reformation principle of *Sola Scriptura *and of the American trait of excessive individualism. As some of the other posters have indicated, the pastors at these churches do indeed elevate the Word of God above all else. On the surface, it sounds nice: just follow this book, and you’ll have the unadulterated Gospel. In actuality, because everyone is prone to a different interpretation of that Word, this is a recipe for doctrinal anarchy. Scripture itself warns of the difficulty of interpretation. If differences in opinion become strong enough then WHOOSH!!! Another new church opens up across the street. It also begs the question, what is scripture such that we should accord it this status, and where did it come from? In my experience, “biblical” Christianity tends to look very much and act like what a bunch of American Protestants think that it should look like, regardless of the way that the early church (read: “Church Fathers”) actually thought.

As I put it on another post, the individualistic approach to picking a church is very appealing to us as Americans living in a democracy. One can then find the church that meets our expectation of what the church should be. The Catholic would say that that is backwards. The Catholic looks, not to find a church that conforms to what he thinks the church should be, but to see if he can conform himself to the idea of the church as CHRIST thinks it should be.

Post #100 for your truly!

 

[fellicia]

Isn’t Non- dnominational…just another denomination of Protestantism?

 

[Curious]

I guess yes and no.

Yes in the fact that whenever you get a bunch of protestants together that believe the same things, you could call it a denomination. Even if it’s a non-denom denomination.

No in the fact that the pastor pretty much gets to decide what they believe. And pastors vary.

 

[kayla]

fellicia:

Isn’t Non- dnominational…just another denomination of Protestantism?

Any church that breaks off (splinters off) the Catholic Church is considered Protestant (in protest of the Chruch) call it Non-dominational or what-ever.