A Fornicator and the use of Condoms

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LittleDeb:
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As has been stated by the Magisterium, it is intentional contraception that is intrinsically evil. It does not say contraceptive devices are evil.
Is it accurate to us the analogy of direct and indirect abortion here? In one case we have intentional, or direct, contraception which may never be done. In another case we have indirect contraception in that the woman is not consenting to sexual intercourse, thus it cannot be sinful?
 
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Is it accurate to us the analogy of direct and indirect abortion here? In one case we have intentional, or direct, contraception which may never be done. In another case we have indirect contraception in that the woman is not consenting to sexual intercourse, thus it cannot be sinful?
So, you mean, she is rejecting the whole encounter, which incidentally includes contraception?

This whole discussion proves to me how easily we can use logic to end up on all sides of an issue. Just a little twist in its application, and we can come up with a different conclusion.
 
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DaMaMaXiMuS:
Greetings and Peace unto you All,


Nonetheless, because of this situation involving my friend I began to think on somethings. And what I wanted to know is if a person is in the midst of fonication, as is my friend (sleeping around), as Catholics we know he is in the midst of mortal sin. Would I be wrong in telling him that if he’s not going to repent of these sins, he should use a condom to try and prevent as best as possible from contracting a disease or even impregnating some women he has a one night stand with?


Thanks you all.

God Bless You All,

Nelson
Dear Nelson,

Greetings and Pax Tecum,

I am short on time here, but wanted to add a bit here. I say no, definitely do not recommend a condom if you are hoping to lessen his sin, and yours.

I can’t find it right now, but I am pretty sure that it was Augustine said that fornication is less a sin than masturbation because at least a child (the natural outcome of natural sexual activity) is a possibility. Sex outside marriage, is fornication, add a condom, it becomes fornication/mutual masturbation. And de facto Onanism. SO, now, his one sin would turn into three. And you just might take one on yourself.

The Church has also taught, in the CCC I am almost positive, that doing an objectively sinful thing to mitigate a situation is never correct as the end does not justify the means. Like lying to ease someone’s feelings is not of, even though it might seem it.

It is a tough thing to come to in Catholic culture in this day and age that things like a child being born from these activities is not “awful”. For example, I will confess to all of you here, that my first-born son was conceived outside of wedlock. His mother and I never would have considered abortion, and were married, have been for 5 years, now have 3 children, and are very happy, Catholic, and obviously, not practicing contraception!! HAHA!.

Of course, it is better that he stops. NOW. But, I submit that adding sin on top of sin is not the answer.

Also, it is my experience that fear of the wrong is a much weaker deterrent than Love of the Right. If a Clymidia scare didn’t stop him, nothing will on that side. Only I think love for God, and Fear of Him, and devotion of Our Blessed Mother will bring him from this.

Let us Pray:
  • IN the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen,
Dear Father, please watch over your son, and bring him to full contrition. Show him Lord, if it be within your Will, without penalty to him or others, the error of his ways, and the deep offense they cause you. Lord give him your grace that he so desperately needs to have a deep change of heart, and guide his knowledge to convict his passions to higher food, the strengthen his will toward the true desire of His heart: you Beloved Son, Jesus.

Holy Mary, queen of Heaven, purify your son. Lead him into the arms of your Beloved Son, and give him the graces of your Immaculate Purity. Teach him dear mother that the more he loved you, and your Son, the more he will hate sin. Pray for him we beg you.

Saint Philomina, please pray for Nelson’s friend, help him to seek out your example of purity, and God-centered love.

Saint Dominic, you who once said that you would rather die than commit a mortal sin, please Holy Father, pray for Nelson’s friend that he might find the same type of commitment.

Saint Peter, please pray for Nelson’s friend, shepherd him, and bring him into full communion with the Church built upon your Blessed Vocation, and a deep love for its guidance.

And also, dear Saints, pray for Nelson, and his continued devotion to Our Lord, and His church; and Lord, reward his devotion and fidelity, enliven his efforts with your grace, and may his works in your grace bear fruit in eternity with you.

Together we pray:
Hail Mary, full of grace.
Our Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

+In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Amen

In Cordibus Iesu et Mariae,
Jon
 
Thank you all for a very interesting discussion. I am now retiring from this thread, as I need to think about other things.
 
Hello,
Although I am not catholic I wanted to add something to this thread as it is VERY close to my own experience. I WAS that person who has had sexual partners outside of marriage. I regret this fully and wish it never happened. But what I have found is that I was doing this because of certain experiences in my own life. My self esteem was almost nothing. I felt as if I was worth nothing if I did not give myself to these men. Like that was the only thing that I could give to the relationship. I have a history with depression as does most in my family. I grew up with people telling me I was worthless (either verbally or by actions) and I took that on myself. I was not doing this to hurt God or to disobey Him. I did it to hurt myself. To show that I wasn’t worth the time of day.

As christians it is becoming more and more apparent to me that we need to start understanding WHY people are doing what they are doing instead of just snapping a judgment just because what they are doing is wrong. YES it is wrong but we can’t help them if we just site verses to them and tell them they are wrong. Sometimes we need to lovingly find out WHY and WHAT has brought them to these decisions. I was WRONG to go down the path that I did but what I didn’t realize was it was that I didn’t believe that God or ANYONE loved me. So why not just give myself? What else did I have to offer?

Your friend may be hurting. He may need someone to delve deeper into his past WITH him and help him find the root of his decisions. This may not be a defiance but an issue that is so far buried that even HE doesn’t know why he does what he does. Keep him in your prayers and love him… God WILL reveal the truth.
 
Verisimo,

I thank you deeply from the bottom of heart. I litterally could feel the sincerity and warmth of your prayer as I read the words of the screen. That was truly special. Thank you again. Lord knows I needed that prayer. I’m no better than my friend, we’re in the same boat just at different ends.

Singinbeauty,

Thank you for your words. You are righ, I know I’ve been guilty of making the error of not looking beyond the obvious.

This thread really evolved into something special for me. God Bless You All.

Nelson
 
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Prometheum_x:
So, you mean, she is rejecting the whole encounter, which incidentally includes contraception?
No, she is rejecting the viloent, immoral act. Medical treatment may include “contraceptive” treatment, but that is not contraception as defined in moral theology. That was my point.
This whole discussion proves to me how easily we can use logic to end up on all sides of an issue. Just a little twist in its application, and we can come up with a different conclusion.
I do not follow. Logic leads to a proper and legitimate conclusion.
 
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