A Friar and a Monk

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I have read the difference between a Friar and a Monk before, but two times I have ran into something today… I read something referring to Padre Pio as a ‘Capuchin monk’ and then on a show about him it said the same thing. Why is it saying this?
 
Because not all people get it correct, even among Catholics.
Padre Pio is a Capuchin friar, not a monk.
 
There are no such animals as Franciscan or Dominican monks. The males in these two families are not monastic at all. We were founded to live in the secular world, without being secular. Originally, Dominic and Francis referred to their spiritual sons as Fratres (Brothers). When they went to France, they became Freres. Then to England where they became Friars. The word Friar means brother. For that reason, it is incorrect to say that a non-ordained friar is a brother. Every friar is a brother, whether he’s ordained or not. However, no friar is a monk.

There is a twist here. All monks are brothers. St. Benedict and St. Bernard referred to their spiritual sons as Fratres as well. A monk lives in a monastery or an abbey, which has a papal enclosure and is governed by an abbot. He came comes out, but others cannot enter. He is attached to that house until the day he dies, even if he never lives in that house. There are monks that live on the other side of the globe teaching at a university or working for a diocese, etc. But their community and their superior are at the house where they made their novitiate.

A friar is not attached to any house and we don’t live in monasteries. Many people refer to our houses as monasteries, which is incorrect . That also confuses people. They assume that if the house is a monastery, the residents must be monks. Friars live in convents. The Latin term is conventus. Hence the original Franciscan friars are called the Conventual Franciscans or simply the Conventual Friars. The term literally means the brothers from the convent. A convent does not have a papal enclosure. The enclosure is up to the discretion of the major superior. He decides whether one is needed or not. He can lift it and dispense with it without asking for permission from the Holy See. Not the case in a true monastery.

Among the Dominicans and Carmelites, their convents came to be called priories, because the superior of the house is The Prior, which literally means The First. But the founders used the term to mean the first to serve, not the most important. They actually govern by consensus.

Franciscans are not governed by priors. Francis banned priors, because he said that the system of government and the structure of a priory was too much like that of a monastery, with Gregorian Chant, Latin, very choreographed rituals and a very specific form of architecture required for chapels and houses. To avoid having a priory, the superior of a Franciscan house is called The Guardian, the Minister or simply the Superior. The house is called a friary or simply a community house.

In our case, we call our houses, community houses, because we do not own them. Therefore, they were not erected or blessed to be religious houses. They are temporary shelters. Because a friar or brother is not attached to any house, as is a monk, the entire community can get up and move to different places. It can even be split into smaller fraternities, if the numbers are too large.

In a monastery, large numbers are preferred. They are necessary for the liturgical life of the community, especially the chanting of the LOTH. In a priory, large numbers are preferred for the same reason. Carmelites and Dominicans celebrate the LOTH in a choir according to the monastic custom. Franciscans do not use the monastic custom. The celebration of the LOTH and the mass are very informal in the sense that it’s very austere. There are rarely choirs and never a schola, which is typical for monks.

The house were Padre Pio lived was actually called a convent, Convento San Giovanni. For some reason, the media always refers to him as a Capuchin Monk. The actual title is a Capuchin Franciscan Friar or Capuchin Franciscan Brother.

If you have ever watched EWTN, you will have heard commercials about Fr. Benedict Groeschel’s show. The announcer says, “He’s a friar. He’s a priest and he’s a psychologist.” They put it in the order of priorities. But they never say, “He’s a monk.”

Among Franciscans, Carmelites and Dominicans we do have a monastic order. Our nuns are monastic. Their houses are structured according to the model of St. Benedict. They are governed by an abbess. Their horarium is that of the Benedictines with all of the trimmings, except for the Franciscans. Franciscan nuns, today called The Poor Clares in honor of their foundress, follow the Benedictine schedule of prayer. However, St. Clare too banned all rituals and all Gregorian Chant from the LOTH and from the mass. In France, there began another community originally called the Franciscan Nuns of Perpetual Adoration. They do use chant and all the trimmings at mass. When they merged with the Poor Clares and became the Poor Clares of Perpetual Adoration, they were allowed to keep their liturgical customs, because they had it for more than 200 years.

The women in the mendicant families can be nuns, which are monastic, or sisters, which are active in the world as are the friars. But the men cannot be monks. We are consecrated religious (many are ordained) who live in the world and are not attached to any house, other than the one where we live at the moment. We’re not incardinated into any diocese either. We are roamers. As the friars roamed around the globe, they formed communities to respond to specific needs. Were we monks, that would not be possible. We would be bound by a vow of stability. Friars are unstable. 😃

Fraternally,

Br.JR, FFV 🙂
 
So would it be correct to refer to someone as a ‘Monk’ if they are attached to a specific monastary or abbey?
And refer to someone as ‘Friar’ if they have no such affiliation?
 
So would it be correct to refer to someone as a ‘Monk’ if they are attached to a specific monastary or abbey?
And refer to someone as ‘Friar’ if they have no such affiliation?
The best way is to find out if it’s an order of monks. A friar may be attached to a particular house for a very specific reason as was the case for Padre Pio. But he was the exception, that the norm. That did not make him a monk. Has his health been good, he probably would have been sent on different assignments.

The best way to remember is this way. Mendicants are not monks.

Dominicans, Augustinians, Carmelites, Franciscans, Servites, and Trinitarians are mendicants. Therefore, they are friars.

Benedictines, Cistercians, Trappists, and Camaldolese are monks.

Carthusians are hermits, not monks.

All other male religious are not orders. They are congregations. They cannot make solemn vows. Therefore, they cannot be monks, hermits or friars. Solemn vows is a privilege reserved only for the orders.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
We are consecrated religious (many are ordained) who live in the world and are not attached to any house, other than the one where we live at the moment. We’re not incardinated into any diocese either. We are roamers. As the friars roamed around the globe, they formed communities to respond to specific needs. Were we monks, that would not be possible. We would be bound by a vow of stability. Friars are unstable. 😃
Two questions, Brother JR…
  1. Are the Franciscans at EWTN unusual in that regard because they stay in Hanceville? Or is their “roaming” the television network?
  2. At our parish, our part-time assistant pastor, a Franciscan of the Assumption of the BVM Province, just left. He was with us about four years. He went back to inter-city Milwaukee where he used to be based. He would tell stories about his assignments in the Deep South and Midwest. He doesn’t seem to stay anywhere for more than three or four years. Is that what you mean by Franciscans being roamers and itinerant?
 
Two questions, Brother JR…
  1. Are the Franciscans at EWTN unusual in that regard because they stay in Hanceville? Or is their “roaming” the television network?
There are only 16 of them. They have three houses: Hanceville, Irondale, and Emmitsberg, MD.
  1. At our parish, our part-time assistant pastor, a Franciscan of the Assumption of the BVM Province, just left. He was with us about four years. He went back to inter-city Milwaukee where he used to be based. He would tell stories about his assignments in the Deep South and Midwest. He doesn’t seem to stay anywhere for more than three or four years. Is that what you mean by Franciscans being roamers and itinerant?
That’s right. That’s what makes us roamers. You see, the good thing about being a friar is that friars own no property, monks are very rich. Monks own land, buildings, colleges, factories and more. Friars are just administrators. Friars can pick up their belongings and fit them into one suitcase and we’re off. Everything remains behind.

If we wanted to move an entire community, we mail the keys to the bishop with a thank you note for allowing us to spend the last 99 years in his diocese and we’re gone. Everything remains behind: cars, furniture, appliances, technology, land, bank accounts and any other assets. They belong to the Church, not to us.

Monks don’t have this freedom. It’s very deliberate. The monastery is the beacon on the hill in the city of God.
That’s the funniest thing I have heard in a long time.

-Tim-
Try to live in close quarters with a few friars, then tell me how funny it is. :eek:

Just kidding, unless you have to share a room. One snores, the other passes gas, the guy on the top bunk weighs 350 lbs and you’re beneath praying all night, when one person gets a cold, it becomes community property, since we can’t own anything individually. 🤷

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
  1. At our parish, our part-time assistant pastor, a Franciscan of the Assumption of the BVM Province, just left. He was with us about four years. He went back to inter-city Milwaukee where he used to be based. He would tell stories about his assignments in the Deep South and Midwest. He doesn’t seem to stay anywhere for more than three or four years. Is that what you mean by Franciscans being roamers and itinerant?
That’s right. That’s what makes us roamers. You see, the good thing about being a friar is that friars own no property, monks are very rich. Monks own land, buildings, colleges, factories and more. Friars are just administrators. Friars can pick up their belongings and fit them into one suitcase and we’re off. Everything remains behind.Br. JR, FFV 🙂
When we first got our part time assistant pastor, our late pastor explained to us that we would be picking up his “salary.” Was it really a salary in the way that we understand it or did it go directly to his house?
 
When we first got our part time assistant pastor, our late pastor explained to us that we would be picking up his “salary.” Was it really a salary in the way that we understand it or did it go directly to his house?
A friar’s salary goes to the mother house. If the friar lives away from home, as was the case with this friar, he is allowed to keep a certain amount to cover his expenses. Remember,a rectory is not a religious community. Everyone who lives there must pay certain bills. For example, if you want a TV in your room, you pay the cable bill. Before we had cell phones, it was the same for telephone. If you want to eat something different than what’s on the menu, you have to pay for it. If you want to paint your room outside of schedule, you pay for that.

Diocesan priests are not religious, so they get a salary and they can pay for these extras. Religious send their salaries to their superiors. Those who live away from home, are given an allowance, which can be peanuts or very generous, depending on the financial condition of the community. There is another example of the absence of stability. You may be using an iPhone today and smoke signals tomorrow. It all depends on your assignment and the economic state of your community.

When your parish pays a salary for a friar, part of that goes to support the older friars who may not be elegible for Medicare and Social Security. The community picks up the entire tab for their care. It also goes to educate the younger friars, who often pay as much as $25,000.00 per year in tuition alone. Then there is the cost of keeping a house of studies. Houses of studies do not bring in any money. Everyone living there is a student or a formator. These houses are entirely subsidized by the rest of the community. That’s where the salary that your parish pays goes to.

In the case of a diocesan priest, the salary goes to him. The diocese has other monies to cover the seminary and it’s not responsible for old and sick priests. They have retirement and medical insurance, plus Social Security and Medicare; because contrary to what many dumb Catholics believe, diocesan priests do pay taxes and FICA just like any other employee. It’s the parish that’s a 501(c)3, not the individual.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
What’s a ‘papal enclosure’?
Monasteries have what’s called the cloister. It can be a part of the property or the entire property where the laity may never enter. In some cases, the religious may never step outside of it, unless it’s for a justifiable reason. Normally, the superior of the house can give permission to a member of the same sex to enter for a just reason. Only the pope or his representative can permission for a change, even a temporary one.

Let’s say that the Poor Clares have a leaky roof and they have to allow workmen to enter the recreation room to fix the leak, they have to call the local bishop and inform him. He is the papal representative in the diocese.

In the case of friars, we don’t have such a strict cloister. We usually designate the sleeping area off limits. That would be our cloister. Let’s say that to get to the chapel you have to go past my cell, you would be unable to attend mass at our chapel without the superior’s permission. We don’t need to call anyone else. The superior can say that we don’t have cloister, because of the floor plan of the house. In that case, you just use common sense. Just like any other family, there are parts of your home to which you don’t invite guests.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
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