A friend aborted THREE babies with down syndrome!

[IzzyD]

I have just found out that a friend of mine aborted three babies in a row before she had the daughter she has now because they had down syndrome and she “Couldn’t cope” with them. I was shocked, I didn’t think she was the sort of person who could do that. She talks about it as if all she did was exchange a bracelet in a shop until she got the right one. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Burdensome1]

My thought is that you have a serious problem on your hands… You have to make a judgement:

Is this person really, really that ignorant? To be so, consider how brain dead she would actually have to be. However, maybe she was dominated by another person and coercion was involved, maybe chemicals that affected judgement. Maybe poverty or violence drove her beyond reason. You’d know better than anyone on the internet if there were any circumstances that lessen her culpability.

If she’s not ignorant, and realized what she was doing, and made an uncoerced choice, then you are dealing with an outlier here, a person on the fringe of humanity. I’d say be careful. Consider that there is a very good chance of post-traumatic disorders as well as other psychiatric problems that you may not have any clue how to deal with. I certainly would not.

This person will at some point need professional help if they ever are brought to honestly face their past. If they are at any point in the sphere of the Catholic Church, they’ll need serious priestly help.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I’m not a physician, but I do read, and it strikes me as rather unlikely that one woman would conceive 3 in a row with Down Syndrome, unless she was very much older, and in that case, it would be hard to believe somebody with experience in the world would be so irresponsible.

What I’m trying to ask is, What proof or even an indication do you have that this was the reason for the abortions? It could be that she wanted to avoid disapproval by others, and figured that an excuse like that would be seen as justified.

If she is a youngish person, then it is possible that abortion is being used as contraception after the fact, which is too frequent among unmarried women.

 

[Nan_S]

Your friend has issues with being a perfectionist. I feel sorry for the child whom she let live, to have such an intolerant mother.

If you can, consider maintaining a relationship so that you can be an unofficial auntie to the child and help nurture her.

 

[onceablasphemer]

May God have mercy on her and soften her heart to see the error of her ways. The tests for down syndrome are not perfect! People with “disabilities” are some of the most innocent and loving people ever born. They put most of us to shame.

 

[wanabesaint]

Amen, .

The greatest gift from God to Man is, a human life …
The richest people of past history, a time when people were educated to what is real wealth, was to have children and many…

Today people are in a great superstion of ignorane, uneducated because they are superstitous in a ignorance that they should not Have Children, because they are rather to suport a fictional economics of greed and gluttony of an evil empire…

Education comes from the , Exit from darkness, exit from superstition.

Yet today people condon and live in a superstition of killing their own children, so they can have more greed and glutonny of luxury, by not having children…
and to top that off, you can hear in churchs people praying that they might have more of, wealth or that which brings wealth.

the book of lamantations fortells of this, in that people will come to live in luxury, and yet as God stops providing for them due to their greed, they will come to boil and eat their children to eat… the Bible is true, and it already is happening…

abortion is, because wealth and treasures on earth calls for abortion, the killing of ones own children… yet science now says that the US and Europe are in perminate population declines for the next almost two hundred years.

the meek will inherit the earth, if only people had came to know what that means.

 

[Qwestions]

It has been my understanding that patients who visit a Planned Parenthood facility, as well as some medical types in hospitals and private practices, are frequently given “probable birth defect” talks if the patient has indicated a slight willingness to abort, or if the staff thinks that abortion is in the best interest of the patient, due to age, temperament, lifestyle, income, etc. We should pray for the softening of the hearts of all involved in abortion.

 

[wanabesaint]

soft hearts,

WE have an obligation to stand agaisnt evil, murder should not be tollerated.

Stand against hate, for looking on and doing nothing is condoning, which is sin of to yourself.

Is thier anything left that men will stand and fight against to stop, to lose ones life, in an justified war???

If a Father woke up one morning and looked at his family of children and decided he no longer wanted to provide for them, as he would rather go buy a new sports car with his money, so he killed them that in his greed he might have a new car instead of a family. All would scream that is insanity by our logic of mind.
but that is exactly what abortion is and why in the United States, especially to our elected.

 

[Bezant]

I have just found out that a friend of mine aborted three babies in a row before she had the daughter she has now because they had down syndrome and she “Couldn’t cope” with them. I was shocked, I didn’t think she was the sort of person who could do that. She talks about it as if all she did was exchange a bracelet in a shop until she got the right one. What are your thoughts on this?

It sounds unlikely, to be honest. But you would be surprised how many women sometimes find themselves in those circumstances. Regardless of your opinion on abortion, its best to avoid imposing your views and instead be an encouraging and supportive friend.

 

[KCT]

Pray for her.

 

[IzzyD]

I’m not a physician, but I do read, and it strikes me as rather unlikely that one woman would conceive 3 in a row with Down Syndrome, unless she was very much older, and in that case, it would be hard to believe somebody with experience in the world would be so irresponsible.

What I’m trying to ask is, What proof or even an indication do you have that this was the reason for the abortions? It could be that she wanted to avoid disapproval by others, and figured that an excuse like that would be seen as justified.

If she is a youngish person, then it is possible that abortion is being used as contraception after the fact, which is too frequent among unmarried women.

Well, she was trying to conceive at the time and only had the three abortions because she didn’t want a baby with down syndrome. If she had not been able to have a child without down syndrome she was going to adopt. At the time she was married with one child already and wanted a “friend” for that child. She was in her late thirties - early forties when trying to become pregnant for a second time I think. I’m afraid I know that she did have those abortions because the babies had downsyndrome and is actually proud of it.

 

[Elizabeth502]

I’m afraid I know that she did have those abortions because the babies had downsyndrome and is actually proud of it.

I didn’t question your knowledge about the abortions (or at least, that she did tell you she had abortions, plural). I questioned her explanation, that three in a row had Down’s. That is quite unusual, statistically. Nevertheless, it would be a convienient excuse for someone to fabricate if they were hoping for social approval for even one abortion, let alone multiple ones.

You have only her word that all 3 had the same genetic defect. You can choose to believe her. I am questioning her assertion.

 

[mharren]

OK, I don’t work OB/GYN, I hate it there. But we can’t be strongly suspicious of Trisomy 21 (Downs) until at least the 11th week of pregnancy (Nuchal Scan - Ultrasound) and we can’t be *sure * without a karyotype taken from fetal cells via either Chorionic Villus Sampling (10-12 weeks) or Amniocentesis (15-20 weeks).

If this woman had a prevalence of Trisomy 21 in her family, especially an immediate relative than I can see how it’s possible to have had that many in a row. However, I suspect it’s more likely she could have had an abnormal prenatal test at any point, like rising AFP levels, panicked, and aborted without allowing the baby to gestate long enough to be sure with keryotyping. Which is unfortunate.

As for this woman speaking very casually about these abortions, consider that she also killed these children (to speak more from a Pro-life point of view), and since she’s not aghast with committing murder than it’s likely she doesn’t see it that way, and that in an otherwise healthy person, which she probably is, it’s not murder to her because it wasn’t person. Even if she saw it as a person, maybe she doesn’t feel the mentally handicapped have an equal status with ‘normal’ persons. Who knows. It doesn’t make her mentally ill though.

Regards,

• Mharren

 

[CrimsonThorn]

It sounds unlikely, to be honest. But you would be surprised how many women sometimes find themselves in those circumstances. Regardless of your opinion on abortion, its best to avoid imposing your views and instead be an encouraging and supportive friend.

Encouraging and supportive of what, exactly? The friend doesnt seem to feel remorse or appear troubled about the abortions.

Encouraging another’s sin is a grave sin in itself.

 

[Katarina90]

My stance on cases like this are, really, it’s women like this who need God more than anyone. If you can handle it, if you can learn to still love her despite this, maintane the friendship; you have NO IDEA what she might say to you tomorrow, next week, next year. She could open up, she could see something in you that makes a light turn on for her.

Of course, if she becomes cruel to you about the topic, or can’t respect your concerns, or becomes cold and callous towards you, keeping a friendly distance could be best for a time. But, I don’t support breaking frienships like this off, unless there is very very grave reason

 

[silicasandra]

**OK, I don’t work OB/GYN, I hate it there. But we can’t be strongly suspicious of Trisomy 21 (Downs) until at least the 11th week of pregnancy (Nuchal Scan - Ultrasound) and we can’t be *sure *** without a karyotype taken from fetal cells via either Chorionic Villus Sampling (10-12 weeks) or Amniocentesis (15-20 weeks).

If this woman had a prevalence of Trisomy 21 in her family, especially an immediate relative than I can see how it’s possible to have had that many in a row. However, I suspect it’s more likely she could have had an abnormal prenatal test at any point, like rising AFP levels, panicked, and aborted without allowing the baby to gestate long enough to be sure with keryotyping. Which is unfortunate.

As for this woman speaking very casually about these abortions, consider that she also killed these children (to speak more from a Pro-life point of view), and since she’s not aghast with committing murder than it’s likely she doesn’t see it that way, and that in an otherwise healthy person, which she probably is, it’s not murder to her because it wasn’t person. Even if she saw it as a person, maybe she doesn’t feel the mentally handicapped have an equal status with ‘normal’ persons. Who knows. It doesn’t make her mentally ill though.

Regards,

• Mharren

Even if these tests suggest a higher possibility of Downs, isn’t it possible that these tests have results that are less than foolproof? I think it would be strange if three babies in a row indeed had Downs, but I would be less surprised if she had three tests that indicated a high possibility of Downs.

I think it so strange that such a high percentage of children who have a high risk of Downs are aborted. I realize that the condition does have varying degrees of severity, but the people I have met who have it are delightful and live with quite a high level of independence. Not that it should matter, because every person is a gift from God no matter what, but for a syndrome like Downs to be treated like an automatic death sentence is just…so strange to me.

Prayers for you and this poor woman who has no understanding of what she has done.

 

[Katarina90]

Encouraging and supportive of what, exactly? The friend doesnt seem to feel remorse or appear troubled about the abortions.

Encouraging another’s sin is a grave sin in itself.

That is’t what he sounded like he was saying ot me, actually. To me, I read Benzant’s reply more as, don’t constantly talk about how she sinned, how awful abortion is, etc etc, while failing to try and support where she is NOW, in terms of, still loving her for her, despite her actions, and letting her know if she ever wants to talk about it, she can.

One can support a person without supporting their sins. OP should share the truth on abortion, share what she thinks about it, and let her friend understand where she is coming from, but she shouldn’t do it in a condemning, judgmental way.

Not everyone is without remorse of an action right away. Many of us will find ourselves with friends who do not follow our beliefs, do not follow God’s morals. That doesn’t mean we can’t be loving, share our truth with charity, and offer love and support to them as a person.

 

[Bezant]

Encouraging and supportive of what, exactly? The friend doesn’t seem to feel remorse or appear troubled about the abortions. Encouraging another’s sin is a grave sin in itself.

As they say, let’s not get it twisted. I have said nothing about encouraging abortion. But assuming the worst, there is a practical issue here that should be dealt with tactfully.

 

[Bezant]

That is’t what he sounded like he was saying ot me, actually. To me, I read Benzant’s reply more as, don’t constantly talk about how she sinned, how awful abortion is, etc etc, while failing to try and support where she is NOW, in terms of, still loving her for her, despite her actions, and letting her know if she ever wants to talk about it, she can.

One can support a person without supporting their sins. OP should share the truth on abortion, share what she thinks about it, and let her friend understand where she is coming from, but she shouldn’t do it in a condemning, judgmental way.

Not everyone is without remorse of an action right away. Many of us will find ourselves with friends who do not follow our beliefs, do not follow God’s morals. That doesn’t mean we can’t be loving, share our truth with charity, and offer love and support to them as a person.

On the mark.

 

[CrimsonThorn]

As they say, let’s not get it twisted. I have said nothing about encouraging abortion. But assuming the worst, there is a practical issue here that should be dealt with tactfully.

I agree and did not intend to twist your words. I was just hoping the OP would not misunderstand your words and encourage her friends decision, which is common for people to feel compelled to support their friends and their decisions no matter what.

In other words, I was asking you, in hopes that you would clarify more specifically. Which you did