A friend is putting me in a difficult situation

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I am quite upset about something that has happened with a friend of mine. I just need to vent and hear your thoughts about the way I am handling the situation.

For the last four years she and her kids have been living in my apartment rent free. I currently live abroad and was happy to offer her my place, and have someone take care of it while I’m away. She went through a messy divorce a few years ago and is pretty much broke. That is why I wanted to help her. The kids are young teens. She is Catholic but tends to stop practicing when her personal life gets messy, which is often.

I am currently home visiting family. A couple of days ago she told me that her boyfriend has proposed, asked me if he can move into my place until they sort themselves out in a year or so (they would pay me rent), and asked me to be her witness at this civil ceremony. I said no to both things. I told her that she and the kids can stay for free as long as they like, but that I am not comfortable having the boyfriend there. The word on the street is that the guy pretty much lives there already.

So we had this conversation about what the problem is and I explained that although she can choose to do whatever she wants, I am not free to support such a union by either being a witness at the registry, or by supporting their union in my home. She was very upset. Tried to guilt trip me by talking about the kids and how much they like living there and how much they love her new man. And of course, the pope will change all this man made nonsense and legalism and bring the church into the modern world.

I was kind and tried hard to not sound judgemental. I didn’t lecture her, just explained what the moral implications are for me. She knows well what the church teaches and why, and she knows I am serious about it. She is very much against the idea of trying to get an annulment, thinks it is pure hypocrisy. I know she is now picking and choosing because of her circumstances, but I am seriously shocked that she thinks that I am making a fuss over nothing.

I do feel bad for the kids because of what they went through, and because she tends to bring all her men into their lives. The last thing they need is another move and stress regarding that. She now has another option where they can all live, but it wouldn’t be as good as my apartment in terms of location of the kids’ school.

The conversation ended with her asking me to reconsider. I will see her again in a few days, and I leave again in two weeks and by that time we will have to agree on what next.

My gut feeling is that I should definitely ask her to move out and give her enough time to organise things. I am just not sure if I’m handling this right. What really bothers me is that people will be throwing dirt, saying how those horrible Catholics shun poor women who just want love and throw kids out of their homes. I know I am not exactly a St Thomas More here, but I am still not looking forward to this kind of gossip and unjust criticism aimed at the church.

 

[His_helpmeet]

She is a grown woman. For her children’s sake, she needs to start adulting and find her own place to live.

I recognize she is “pretty much broke”. But I’m sure, if she looks into it, that there are benefits she can claim - particularly if the children live primarily with her. There may also be subsidized day care options where she can find day care for her children, allowing her to get a proper job.

You giving her a place to live was very gracious, and it is a privilege for her, not a right. She does not have the right to dictate who can and can’t live at your place.

 

[Aggie414]

I definitely think you should ask her to move out – she’s had years to get back on her feet. And if he is already living there as you suspect, she obviously is not respecting your wishes – and this after you’ve bent over backwards to help her.

I would tell her that she needs to have found a new place by the time you leave and then have the locks changed before you leave!

 

[Lou2U]

I agree with the other posters. It’s your house and she isn’t paying you any rent. You don’ have any obligation to let her stay. Talk to her again, re-explain your position and if she doesn’t agree, give her a couple of weeks notice to leave. You’ve gone above and beyond her her already.

Lou

 

[DarkLight]

I definitely think you should ask her to move out – she’s had years to get back on her feet. And if he is already living there as you suspect, she obviously is not respecting your wishes – and this after you’ve bent over backwards to help her.

I would tell her that she needs to have found a new place by the time you leave and then have the locks changed before you leave!

Don’t just change the locks. Even with her not paying rent, in the u.s. she is legally a tenant . OP needs to give her written notice to vacate in accordance with her local law’s time period, and then file for eviction if she doesn’t leave. Changing the locks prior to a formal eviction could get OP in a lot of legal trouble.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Just to clarify, we don’t live in the USA. We simply agreed to this, no paperwork whatsoever. I have no legal requirement about giving notice and can ask her to leave tomorrow if I so desire. Just the way things work around here. But I would never do that.

 

[UbiCaritas]

Just to clarify, we don’t live in the USA. We simply agreed to this, no paperwork whatsoever. I have no legal requirement about giving notice and can ask her to leave tomorrow if I so desire. Just the way things work around here. But I would never do that.

It depends on where the apartment is in the US–which, from your “the way things work around here” comment, you might know already. In some states, you could ask her to leave. In others, if she’s lived somewhere for 30 days, even with no paperwork or agreement of any kind, you’d have to go through the whole eviction process. It varies.

(I realize you said you weren’t going to simply change the locks, but I wanted to clarify for the benefit of readers. My parents currently have a violent guy with a history of some pretty nasty mental illness living with them. Despite the fact that he’s never had any sort of lease, if he’s still living there when they die, getting him out will be…fun. )

 

[1ke]

Four years is a long and extremely generous amount of time to provide her with free housing.

If she is no longer living there, who will look after your home? Are you moving home or do you need to get someone else to look after it? that seems unclear to me.

Regarding whether or not she and her boyfriend or civilly married husband live in the home, I don’t think you have any culpability one way or the other. When looking at cooperation with evil, I think it’s remote material cooperation at best. She is going to shack up and civilly marry no matter what you do.

archphila.org/HHS/pdf/CoopEvilChart.pdf

I agree that standing up as a witness at the registrar is not something you want to do. But, as to whether the boyfriend or husband lives in your house-- I think you are making a moral issue out of something that is not a moral issue for you.

You are not guilty of any *sin *by providing a group of people in need a place to live. Where they sleep and who they have sex with, not your issue.

If it just annoys you and you want to make a stand on principle, that’s fine. But I don’t think the Church teaching on this is that you would be sinning to let them live there.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Just to clarify again: we do not live in the USA.

The legal stuff is completely irrelevant in this story. I am just wondering if I am being too harsh, not particularly understanding because of her kids, that kind of thing. Sorry if the post sounded like I am concerned with legal issues, since that is not my qustion at all.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

If she is no longer living there, who will look after your home? Are you moving home or do you need to get someone else to look after it? that seems unclear to me.

Regarding whether or not she and her boyfriend or civilly married husband live in the home, I don’t think you have any culpability one way or the other. When looking at cooperation with evil, I think it’s remote material cooperation at best. She is going to shack up and civilly marry no matter what you do.

archphila.org/HHS/pdf/CoopEvilChart.pdf

I agree that standing up as a witness at the registrar is not something you want to do. But, as to whether the boyfriend or husband lives in your house-- I think you are making a moral issue out of something that is not a moral issue for you.

You are not guilty of any *sin *by providing a group of people in need a place to live. Where they sleep and who they have sex with, not your issue.

If it just annoys you and you want to make a stand on principle, that’s fine. But I don’t think the Church teaching on this is that you would be sinning to let them live there.

Thank you for your reply. I know you always state the facts so I appreciate your response.

My primary concern is that I will be sinning by letting a couple in an illicit relationship live in my home. I am afraid that I am actively participating in supporting this living arrangement, which goes against my conscience. I am acutally quite surprised to hear that this is not my moral problem. You use the phrase “people in need” above. That used to be the case for her, but not anymore. A family member has provided her with a place to stay (not as good an option for her as the current one, as I stated in my first post), and the boyfriend earns decent money. So she is not technically in need anymore.

The apartment can be taken care of by a real-estate agent. I have already spoken to an acquaintance who does that kind of thing and it will be easy to arrange.

 

[mommy_k]

Just to clarify again: we do not live in the USA.

The legal stuff is completely irrelevant in this story. I am just wondering if I am being too harsh, not particularly understanding because of her kids, that kind of thing. Sorry if the post sounded like I am concerned with legal issues, since that is not my qustion at all.

No you are not being harsh…she now has a decision to make, and that’s what I would tell her.

Why would the fiance want to move there anyway? After marriage they have to have a place, so nows a good time for him to look for one and perhaps settle in there:shrug:

 

[1ke]

My primary concern is that I will be sinning by letting a couple in an illicit relationship live in my home. I am afraid that I am actively participating in supporting this living arrangement, which goes against my conscience.

It’s my opinion, based on the teaching regarding cooperation with evil, that you are not sinning.

Ultimately, of course, you have to make your own decision on that.

I am acutally quite surprised to hear that this is not my moral problem. You use the phrase “people in need” above. That used to be the case for her, but not anymore. A family member has provided her with a place to stay (not as good an option for her as the current one, as I stated in my first post), and the boyfriend earns decent money. So she is not technically in need anymore.

Ok, you are giving people a place to live.

I don’t think the morality decision point is whether they are in need or not.

I think the morality decision points flow down on that chart very easily to remote material cooperation.

The apartment can be taken care of by a real-estate agent. I have already spoken to an acquaintance who does that kind of thing and it will be easy to arrange.

If you think that she is now at the point of taking advantage of your kindness, it’s time for her to get new living arrangements. If not, then you will simply have to decide whether you are ready to say “you can’t live here anymore” or if you are OK saying “I don’t like the idea of your boyfriend living with you but you are a grown woman and have to make your own choices” and let her stay.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Thank you for your reply. I know you always state the facts so I appreciate your response.

My primary concern is that I will be sinning by letting a couple in an illicit relationship live in my home. I am afraid that I am actively participating in supporting this living arrangement, which goes against my conscience. I am acutally quite surprised to hear that this is not my moral problem. You use the phrase “people in need” above. That used to be the case for her, but not anymore. A family member has provided her with a place to stay (not as good an option for her as the current one, as I stated in my first post), and the boyfriend earns decent money. So she is not technically in need anymore.

The apartment can be taken care of by a real-estate agent. I have already spoken to an acquaintance who does that kind of thing and it will be easy to arrange.

A friend, particularly someone you have been so generous too would respect your values. Your concern is as much for her soul as yours, I hope you made that clear- she is putting her soul at risk and by drawing this line you are attempting to get her to rethink her decision and consider its implications for her soul.

As to her and the guy living there and paying rent. When the real estate agent takes on looking after the place- will you be as selective with tenants? Will you put in place restrictions on folks living together, or whether they’re validly married?

You may want to look at them, once she’s paying vice receiving charity, the way you would any other couple who might want to rent your place. Even to the point of having them apply and be considered like any other applicant- that is make it a simple business decision by your representative vice a decision by yourself.

 

[Lorelei12]

You agreed to allow her to live there with her kids, not to allow random people you don’t know to live in your home. Even formal leases have rules about other people moving in and whether or not it is acceptable. It isn’t fair of her to try and guilt-trip you when you’ve been so generous.

Four years is a long time to live rent-free and ample opportunity for someone to work toward taking responsibility for her own living situation. It doesn’t sound like she has been able to do that, so it seems like something needs to change.

You mentioned that, if they did move out, you could have a real estate agent manage the apartment for you. Is it an option to contract with a property management company to lease the apartment to her and her boyfriend, so that you are just the owner and not as involved? They would collect the rent, and keep your friend and her boyfriend responsible, and you wouldn’t have to deal with it.

 

[EasterJoy]

I am quite upset about something that has happened with a friend of mine. I just need to vent and hear your thoughts about the way I am handling the situation.

For the last four years she and her kids have been living in my apartment rent free. I currently live abroad and was happy to offer her my place, and have someone take care of it while I’m away. She went through a messy divorce a few years ago and is pretty much broke. That is why I wanted to help her. The kids are young teens. She is Catholic but tends to stop practicing when her personal life gets messy, which is often.

I am currently home visiting family. A couple of days ago she told me that her boyfriend has proposed, asked me if he can move into my place until they sort themselves out in a year or so (they would pay me rent), and asked me to be her witness at this civil ceremony. I said no to both things. I told her that she and the kids can stay for free as long as they like, but that I am not comfortable having the boyfriend there. The word on the street is that the guy pretty much lives there already.

So we had this conversation about what the problem is and I explained that although she can choose to do whatever she wants, I am not free to support such a union by either being a witness at the registry, or by supporting their union in my home. She was very upset. Tried to guilt trip me by talking about the kids and how much they like living there and how much they love her new man. And of course, the pope will change all this man made nonsense and legalism and bring the church into the modern world.

I was kind and tried hard to not sound judgemental. I didn’t lecture her, just explained what the moral implications are for me. She knows well what the church teaches and why, and she knows I am serious about it. She is very much against the idea of trying to get an annulment, thinks it is pure hypocrisy. I know she is now picking and choosing because of her circumstances, but I am seriously shocked that she thinks that I am making a fuss over nothing.

I do feel bad for the kids because of what they went through, and because she tends to bring all her men into their lives. The last thing they need is another move and stress regarding that. She now has another option where they can all live, but it wouldn’t be as good as my apartment in terms of location of the kids’ school.

The conversation ended with her asking me to reconsider. I will see her again in a few days, and I leave again in two weeks and by that time we will have to agree on what next.

My gut feeling is that I should definitely ask her to move out and give her enough time to organise things. I am just not sure if I’m handling this right. What really bothers me is that people will be throwing dirt, saying how those horrible Catholics shun poor women who just want love and throw kids out of their homes. I know I am not exactly a St Thomas More here, but I am still not looking forward to this kind of gossip and unjust criticism aimed at the church.

Trust your gut feeling. You believe she is already co-habitating at your place without your permission. I think you have the feeling that the good that could be accomplished by this arrangement has run its course. Tell her that you were willing to help her out while she got back on her feet, but it has been several years and it is time for her to find a place of her own. She has that option. It is not as convenient, but it is not impoverishing. Frankly, as soon as she could do that, she should have been insisting that she needed to either pay you rent or move out.

No good deed goes unpunished. Don’t expect her to be grateful for all she has gotten from you. Do not expect her to tell her children or anyone else she gets alone in a private room the truth about what the situation is. You did a good thing, you will not go without your reward. If you gained nothing in reputation for the good you did, your reward will only be that much greater.

Asking her to leave is not a sin, and may be the best thing for all involved. Don’t let the threat of some sour grapes deter you from doing what you know you are going to wish you had done when you get farther down the road and look back.

By the way, as soon as you have her out and have the locks changed, consider seeing a local real estate attorney. Find out what sort of paperwork you need or want to avoid for every future tenant or guest who stays at your place. Next time, you may not be so lucky as to be able to evict such a long-term guest at will.

 

[Allegra]

You’ve been putting her up rent free for 4 years and you’re concerned that someone will think your cruel to single mothers?

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

You’ve been putting her up rent free for 4 years and you’re concerned that someone will think your cruel to single mothers?

I guess I am a bit naive. Thanks for the reality check.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Thank you all for your replies, they have been most helpful.

There have been a few good points and I have given it some thought.

If an agent took over I would not be selective about tenants. Since I would not be dealing with them in a personal way it would be a simple business arrangement and nothing more. But this situation is different, this is an old friend whom I offered my place because she needed help. But I offered it to her children and her. Our agreement did not include a boyfriend. This makes all the difference, especially because she knows I am serious about my faith.

I will see what she has to say when we meet up next week. I am hoping that she will tell me she is going to stay at the other place that is now available to her, and that I won’t have to ask her to move out. But if it comes to it, I will tell her it is for the best that she and the guy make their home elsewhere.

I have to admit that I now feel she has taken advantage of me and am quite annoyed. I have not mentioned the numerous pets in my previous posts, since they are not the main problem here. But without ever asking me, she got a bird, a hamster, a gecko, a small dog, and now a cat. You are probably shaking your heads and wondering why I have been putting up with all of this for so long. I guess I have a soft spot for this silly woman, we’ve been friends for a long time. But this arrangement has definitely run its course.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

I am quite upset about something that has happened with a friend of mine. I just need to vent and hear your thoughts about the way I am handling the situation.

For the last four years she and her kids have been living in my apartment rent free. I currently live abroad and was happy to offer her my place, and have someone take care of it while I’m away. She went through a messy divorce a few years ago and is pretty much broke. That is why I wanted to help her. The kids are young teens. She is Catholic but tends to stop practicing when her personal life gets messy, which is often.

I am currently home visiting family. A couple of days ago she told me that her boyfriend has proposed, asked me if he can move into my place until they sort themselves out in a year or so (they would pay me rent), and asked me to be her witness at this civil ceremony. I said no to both things. I told her that she and the kids can stay for free as long as they like, but that I am not comfortable having the boyfriend there. The word on the street is that the guy pretty much lives there already.

So we had this conversation about what the problem is and I explained that although she can choose to do whatever she wants, I am not free to support such a union by either being a witness at the registry, or by supporting their union in my home. She was very upset. Tried to guilt trip me by talking about the kids and how much they like living there and how much they love her new man. And of course, the pope will change all this man made nonsense and legalism and bring the church into the modern world.

I was kind and tried hard to not sound judgemental. I didn’t lecture her, just explained what the moral implications are for me. She knows well what the church teaches and why, and she knows I am serious about it. She is very much against the idea of trying to get an annulment, thinks it is pure hypocrisy. I know she is now picking and choosing because of her circumstances, but I am seriously shocked that she thinks that I am making a fuss over nothing.

I do feel bad for the kids because of what they went through, and because she tends to bring all her men into their lives. The last thing they need is another move and stress regarding that. She now has another option where they can all live, but it wouldn’t be as good as my apartment in terms of location of the kids’ school.

The conversation ended with her asking me to reconsider. I will see her again in a few days, and I leave again in two weeks and by that time we will have to agree on what next.

My gut feeling is that I should definitely ask her to move out and give her enough time to organise things. I am just not sure if I’m handling this right. What really bothers me is that people will be throwing dirt, saying how those horrible Catholics shun poor women who just want love and throw kids out of their homes. I know I am not exactly a St Thomas More here, but I am still not looking forward to this kind of gossip and unjust criticism aimed at the church.

If her boyfriend loves her so much and cant wait to live with her, let him get them a apartment. He is a man isn’t he?

 

[Catholic1954]

I am quite upset about something that has happened with a friend of mine. I just need to vent and hear your thoughts about the way I am handling the situation.

For the last four years she and her kids have been living in my apartment rent free. I currently live abroad and was happy to offer her my place, and have someone take care of it while I’m away. She went through a messy divorce a few years ago and is pretty much broke. That is why I wanted to help her. The kids are young teens. She is Catholic but tends to stop practicing when her personal life gets messy, which is often.

I am currently home visiting family. A couple of days ago she told me that her boyfriend has proposed, asked me if he can move into my place until they sort themselves out in a year or so (they would pay me rent), and asked me to be her witness at this civil ceremony. I said no to both things. I told her that she and the kids can stay for free as long as they like, but that I am not comfortable having the boyfriend there. The word on the street is that the guy pretty much lives there already.

So we had this conversation about what the problem is and I explained that although she can choose to do whatever she wants, I am not free to support such a union by either being a witness at the registry, or by supporting their union in my home. She was very upset. Tried to guilt trip me by talking about the kids and how much they like living there and how much they love her new man. And of course, the pope will change all this man made nonsense and legalism and bring the church into the modern world.

I was kind and tried hard to not sound judgemental. I didn’t lecture her, just explained what the moral implications are for me. She knows well what the church teaches and why, and she knows I am serious about it. She is very much against the idea of trying to get an annulment, thinks it is pure hypocrisy. I know she is now picking and choosing because of her circumstances, but I am seriously shocked that she thinks that I am making a fuss over nothing.

I do feel bad for the kids because of what they went through, and because she tends to bring all her men into their lives. The last thing they need is another move and stress regarding that. She now has another option where they can all live, but it wouldn’t be as good as my apartment in terms of location of the kids’ school.

The conversation ended with her asking me to reconsider. I will see her again in a few days, and I leave again in two weeks and by that time we will have to agree on what next.

My gut feeling is that I should definitely ask her to move out and give her enough time to organise things. I am just not sure if I’m handling this right. What really bothers me is that people will be throwing dirt, saying how those horrible Catholics shun poor women who just want love and throw kids out of their homes. I know I am not exactly a St Thomas More here, but I am still not looking forward to this kind of gossip and unjust criticism aimed at the church.

It is not her home; it’s your home. If they can pay you rent, they can pay rent somewhere else. Sorry if it is out of the way for the kids school, but that is not your problem. This “friend” has mooched long enough; give her a 30 day notice to move out.