A friend is putting me in a difficult situation

[StGerardMajella]

My primary concern is that I will be sinning by letting a couple in an illicit relationship live in my home. I am afraid that I am actively participating in supporting this living arrangement, which goes against my conscience.

First, you are the owner of the property, so you are able to take whatever measures you deem necessary to preserve your property rights.

I understand from an ownership perspective limiting the number of tenants for business reasons. Stick to the business motives.

 

[Indigo_Cardinal]

Some random thoughts from me:

1.) You’re pretty patient, I think after four years of giving somebody a place to live rent-free, I’d be snarly. (I had a friend move in with me for what was supposed to be six months while she tried to put her life back together. It took a year and a half, and I was fairly irate by the time she left.)

2.) The agreement was for her and her kids, not her, her kids, and random guys. I had to have a chat with said above roommate of mine once about her boyfriend–I didn’t care about him spending the night once or twice a week, but more than that, and I was going to consider him a third roommate who needed to pay his share. Basically, I was making sure she understood I while I didn’t mind helping her out, I owed her had-a-job-and-a-place-to-live-boyfriend squat.

3.) While you are not required to support their wedding by being a witness, it is also not your place to call it illicit just because she’s decided the rules of your church no longer suit her. If the law recognizes her marriage, she’s married, and it’s not illicit.

 a.)  If they're offering to pay rent, I don't see the issue in letting them stay.  (And if she has a source of financial support in the form of a husband, then she jolly well should offer to pay rent.)

 b.)  If they're not offering to pay rent, husband or not, boot 'em all out.

My two cents.

 

[EasterJoy]

Thank you all for your replies, they have been most helpful.

There have been a few good points and I have given it some thought.

If an agent took over I would not be selective about tenants. Since I would not be dealing with them in a personal way it would be a simple business arrangement and nothing more. But this situation is different, this is an old friend whom I offered my place because she needed help. But I offered it to her children and her. Our agreement did not include a boyfriend. This makes all the difference, especially because she knows I am serious about my faith.

I will see what she has to say when we meet up next week. I am hoping that she will tell me she is going to stay at the other place that is now available to her, and that I won’t have to ask her to move out. But if it comes to it, I will tell her it is for the best that she and the guy make their home elsewhere.

I have to admit that I now feel she has taken advantage of me and am quite annoyed. I have not mentioned the numerous pets in my previous posts, since they are not the main problem here. But without ever asking me, she got a bird, a hamster, a gecko, a small dog, and now a cat. You are probably shaking your heads and wondering why I have been putting up with all of this for so long. I guess I have a soft spot for this silly woman, we’ve been friends for a long time. But this arrangement has definitely run its course.

Exactly: that is a) when you first made the offer, she needed the help. Now, she wants it, but she can get by without it and b) you made the offer to her and her children. That’s it.

Frankly, a friend with no faith at all would usually still hold her to that. She doesn’t get to invite third parties in to take advantage of your generosity, be they people or animals. In her place, most people would not even be so bold as to ask. They wouldn’t want to impose themselves on their friend’s generosity like that.

By all rights, she ought to have either moved out or offered to pay rent a long time ago. Again: I think you’re doing her a favor by giving her a little push out on her own. She should be worried about losing you as a friend, not the other way around.]

But ah, in the end, you did good. Don’t worry about having let it go on too long. That is water under the bridge, and you wronged no one. Just let her know that it is time she moved on, and go on to the next thing.

 

[EasterJoy]

Some random thoughts from me:

1.) You’re pretty patient, I think after four years of giving somebody a place to live rent-free, I’d be snarly. (I had a friend move in with me for what was supposed to be six months while she tried to put her life back together. It took a year and a half, and I was fairly irate by the time she left.)

2.) The agreement was for her and her kids, not her, her kids, and random guys. I had to have a chat with said above roommate of mine once about her boyfriend–I didn’t care about him spending the night once or twice a week, but more than that, and I was going to consider him a third roommate who needed to pay his share. Basically, I was making sure she understood I while I didn’t mind helping her out, I owed her had-a-job-and-a-place-to-live-boyfriend squat.

3.) While you are not required to support their wedding by being a witness, it is also not your place to call it illicit just because she’s decided the rules of your church no longer suit her. If the law recognizes her marriage, she’s married, and it’s not illicit.

 a.)  If they're offering to pay rent, I don't see the issue in letting them stay.  (And if she has a source of financial support in the form of a husband, then she jolly well should offer to pay rent.)

 b.)  If they're not offering to pay rent, husband or not, boot 'em all out.

My two cents.

This friend practically proves the rule against getting into business arrangements with friends. Considering the liberties she took when she *wasn’t *paying rent, I think it is better not to make her into a rent-paying tenant. That certainly isn’t the way to preserve the friendship, IMHO.

 

[MaryT777]

She is a grown woman. For her children’s sake, she needs to start adulting and find her own place to live.

I recognize she is “pretty much broke”. But I’m sure, if she looks into it, that there are benefits she can claim - particularly if the children live primarily with her. There may also be subsidized day care options where she can find day care for her children, allowing her to get a proper job.

You giving her a place to live was very gracious, and it is a privilege for her, not a right. She does not have the right to dictate who can and can’t live at your place.

Well said. She should wait to have a man in her home with her children when she is married and they both can sustain a household together financially. You have been most generous.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I am quite upset about something that has happened with a friend of mine. I just need to vent and hear your thoughts about the way I am handling the situation.

For the last four years she and her kids have been living in my apartment rent free. I currently live abroad and was happy to offer her my place, and have someone take care of it while I’m away. She went through a messy divorce a few years ago and is pretty much broke. That is why I wanted to help her. The kids are young teens. She is Catholic but tends to stop practicing when her personal life gets messy, which is often.

I am currently home visiting family. A couple of days ago she told me that her boyfriend has proposed, asked me if he can move into my place until they sort themselves out in a year or so (they would pay me rent), and asked me to be her witness at this civil ceremony. I said no to both things. I told her that she and the kids can stay for free as long as they like, but that I am not comfortable having the boyfriend there. The word on the street is that the guy pretty much lives there already.

So we had this conversation about what the problem is and I explained that although she can choose to do whatever she wants, I am not free to support such a union by either being a witness at the registry, or by supporting their union in my home. She was very upset. Tried to guilt trip me by talking about the kids and how much they like living there and how much they love her new man. And of course, the pope will change all this man made nonsense and legalism and bring the church into the modern world.

I was kind and tried hard to not sound judgemental. I didn’t lecture her, just explained what the moral implications are for me. She knows well what the church teaches and why, and she knows I am serious about it. She is very much against the idea of trying to get an annulment, thinks it is pure hypocrisy. I know she is now picking and choosing because of her circumstances, but I am seriously shocked that she thinks that I am making a fuss over nothing.

I do feel bad for the kids because of what they went through, and because she tends to bring all her men into their lives. The last thing they need is another move and stress regarding that. She now has another option where they can all live, but it wouldn’t be as good as my apartment in terms of location of the kids’ school.

The conversation ended with her asking me to reconsider. I will see her again in a few days, and I leave again in two weeks and by that time we will have to agree on what next.

My gut feeling is that I should definitely ask her to move out and give her enough time to organise things. I am just not sure if I’m handling this right. What really bothers me is that people will be throwing dirt, saying how those horrible Catholics shun poor women who just want love and throw kids out of their homes. I know I am not exactly a St Thomas More here, but I am still not looking forward to this kind of gossip and unjust criticism aimed at the church.

Wow, you had led that like a real life Saint!

I’d be pretty upset if someone I was helping out treated my like she treated you.

I might have more to say later but for now, I’m very proud of you.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

If her boyfriend loves her so much and cant wait to live with her, let him get them a apartment. He is a man isn’t he?

Apparently he is still sorting out his own divorce matters.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

This friend practically proves the rule against getting into business arrangements with friends. Considering the liberties she took when she *wasn’t *paying rent, I think it is better not to make her into a rent-paying tenant. That certainly isn’t the way to preserve the friendship, IMHO.

It really does. I have a feeling that with having them as paying tenants she would assume even more liberties. And I’m done with that kind of stress frankly.

Also, have them now pay rent would mean a bit of paperwork and paying taxes. I don’t mind that but people here tend to cheat on these things and I would potentially (quite probably) have to deal with rent paying tenants who are in my place illegally. And I definitely don’t want that.

I was cornered the other day and the whole story had this strong emotional aspect to it so I questioned my motives and the way I handled the situation. I see quite clearly now that her position is not bad at all, given the other apartment option and a new man who can help her out financially. And the kids are not babies, they are 13 and 14.

 

[Rosebud77]

It really does. I have a feeling that with having them as paying tenants she would assume even more liberties. And I’m done with that kind of stress frankly.

Also, have them now pay rent would mean a bit of paperwork and paying taxes. I don’t mind that but people here tend to cheat on these things and I would potentially (quite probably) have to deal with rent paying tenants who are in my place illegally. And I definitely don’t want that.

I was cornered the other day and the whole story had this strong emotional aspect to it so I questioned my motives and the way I handled the situation. I see quite clearly now that her position is not bad at all, given the other apartment option and a new man who can help her out financially. And the kids are not babies, they are 13 and 14.

There is accepting a hand when you are in need, and there is taking advantage after the need is no longer there.

Sure,fine and comfortable for them but not fair or right and emotional blackmail?

Please, trust your gut on this and be very very firm, make plans and execute them promptly without debate or argument. They have a place to stay, Period

 

[Aggie414]

Don’t just change the locks. Even with her not paying rent, in the u.s. she is legally a tenant . OP needs to give her written notice to vacate in accordance with her local law’s time period, and then file for eviction if she doesn’t leave. Changing the locks prior to a formal eviction could get OP in a lot of legal trouble.

Great point. I thought about that after I posted

 

[SuperHappy]

First off I would like to commend you for the kindness and generosity you have extended to your friend. It’s obvious that you love her and her children lots. I admire your values!

That being said, your values are just that, yours. And you have every right to prevent someone from making you lose them.

I feel that your friend should respect your wishes in regard to your home. If you are not comfortable with your friend and her boyfriend who is working on his own divorce issues living together in your home, then she has nothing to say. She should not use her children as leverage and she should not tell you that you need to continue helping her. She has had 4 years rent-free. Why would she be broke now? She should have been saving as much of her income as possible to get a place. Surely she did not expect to live rent-free forever.

Your conscience is yours and if anything at all bothers it, then you have to deal with it. So simply tell your friend that because of your faith, you don’t feel right about continuing the arrangement and that she and her boyfriend need to step up and take care of their own business. They are not your responsibility. They are grown adults. You have done more than your fair part and at this point, I would be asking how much of a friend is she? What has she done in kind to show her love & friendship to you?

Blessings!

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

F

You have done more than your fair part and at this point, I would be asking how much of a friend is she? What has she done in kind to show her love & friendship to you?

Blessings!

Thank you for your comment.

Sadly, she has stabbed me in the back. The rumours have been confirmed: her boyfriend has been living here since spring. And yet she pretends that is not the case and now asks my permission for him to move in. That’s the kind of a friend she is. In a weird way I am relieved because my conscience is clear about asking them to leave. There us no way I could ever trust her again.

 

[Rosebud77]

Thank you for your comment.

Sadly, she has stabbed me in the back. The rumours have been confirmed: her boyfriend has been living here since spring. And yet she pretends that is not the case and now asks my permission for him to move in. That’s the kind of a friend she is. In a weird way I am relieved because my conscience is clear about asking them to leave. There us no way I could ever trust her again.

Almost unbelievable and so utterly ungrateful and amoral… Praying it will all go smoothly now and that she will have the grace and sense to leave the flat, and to leave it clean and in good repair, Bless you!

 

[SuperHappy]

Thank you for your comment.

Sadly, she has stabbed me in the back. The rumours have been confirmed: her boyfriend has been living here since spring. And yet she pretends that is not the case and now asks my permission for him to move in. That’s the kind of a friend she is. In a weird way I am relieved because my conscience is clear about asking them to leave. There us no way I could ever trust her again.

I am so sorry to hear that.

Praying for you!

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Almost unbelievable and so utterly ungrateful and amoral… Praying it will all go smoothly now and that she will have the grace and sense to leave the flat, and to leave it clean and in good repair, Bless you!

I am so sorry to hear that.

Praying for you!

Thank you for your prayers!

I will deal with this situation next week after I meet with the real estate agent again and discuss things in more detail.

 

[EasterJoy]

Almost unbelievable and so utterly ungrateful and amoral… Praying it will all go smoothly now and that she will have the grace and sense to leave the flat, and to leave it clean and in good repair, Bless you!

I wish I could say it was unbelievable, but it isn’t. The kind of friend who would never do this kind of thing would have found a place of her own or insisted on paying rent as soon as she could do it. She would not have brought any pets into someone else’s place. This was the get-an-inch-take-a-mile kind, instead, unfortunately. Once that is established, well, you couldn’t exactly predict this but you do lose the “unbelievable” aspect, alas.

Let’s hope she doesn’t have the chutzpah to ask her friend to recommend her to other landlords for her rental applications, LOL.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I

Let’s hope she doesn’t have the chutzpah to ask her friend to recommend her to other landlords for her rental applications, LOL.

LOL

The rason I let her stay so long is that her job pays little and there is trouble with child support since the husband is cheating the system and not paying what he should. We are from a tiny European country and the economic crisis has truly ruined many people. She will not get out of her financial problems any time soon, sadly.

But the dishonesty and taking advantage of me is what I find truly hurtful. I’ll give her a few months until my place goes to the agent.

 

[Rosebud77]

LOL

The rason I let her stay so long is that her job pays little and there is trouble with child support since the husband is cheating the system and not paying what he should. We are from a tiny European country and the economic crisis has truly ruined many people. She will not get out of her financial problems any time soon, sadly.

But the dishonesty and taking advantage of me is what I find truly hurtful. I’ll give her a few months until my place goes to the agent.

Please start action immediately. It may take some time and she will take full advantage of that, She does after all have somewhere to go so the sooner the better now. Set your hand to the plough, please

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Rosebud77:
Please start action immediately. It may take some time and she will take full advantage of that, She does after all have somewhere to go so the sooner the better now. Set your hand to the plough, please

I’ll have the conversation in a few days so she knows the score. But I will give her a couple of months notice.

 

[AussieTrish]

Have you considered that if you allow her enough time, even a couple of months, the divorce will be through and they can marry, and then she and her husband can continue rent-free, telling you there is now no moral issue, as they know that essentially you’re a soft touch, so what can you do! They are in residence and there is no paperwork.
There are no real boundaries and haven’t been from the start.
She’s not a friend, but the way.
Allowing time does continue to enabling her selfishness, lies, and sin and confirms her and her boyfriend in their failure to join forces to pay rent and support themselves.
It is possible you will be furnished with a sob story or half-truths that will buy into your softness and guilt.
There are lots of separated and divorced people with children who forge their own way.
Children need to learn not just to have a free ride, rent-free accommodation for years, but that life has responsibilities and they need to learn to consider others rights.
Their mother hasn’t been teaching that in riding on free rent in someone else’s property for so long.

I hope things work out for the temporal and spiritual best for that family and for yourself