A friends claims that Jesus is NOT God, how to disprove?

[Dallaz]

I believe Jesus is God however I am having trouble explaining this to a friend. I have a dilemma with her because she doesn’t believe in any religion, all the beliefs she has she comes to on her own interpretations only from the Bible. Even though she won’t admit it, her beliefs are most closely related to Jehova Witness.

Some of the beliefs she has that I would appreciate if people can help me disprove.

1. The bible often speaks about Jesus as “the son of God”, she believes this means he is less then God and is totally different.
2. Hebrews 12:2 “fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.” she quoted me stating that he is sitting next to the father but still isn’t God himself. I couldn’t find anywhere online to refute this specific passage.
3. she believes Jesus was once less than the angels and that the Jesus and Holy spirit have powers from God but that these powers can be taken away. Jesus had to work his way up to be better than the angels

It is hard to figure her beliefs out since I can’t really gain much of a reference point but she is a Bible ONLY beleiver so i know i can only use the bible.

Help would be appreciated! God Bless

 

[Razanir]

Ask her to explain John 1:1. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Also, scripturecatholic

 

[Jon_S_1]

I believe Jesus is God however I am having trouble explaining this to a friend. I have a dilemma with her because she doesn’t believe in any religion, all the beliefs she has she comes to on her own interpretations only from the Bible. Even though she won’t admit it, her beliefs are most closely related to Jehova Witness.

Some of the beliefs she has that I would appreciate if people can help me disprove.

1. The bible often speaks about Jesus as “the son of God”, she believes this means he is less then God and is totally different.
2. Hebrews 12:2 “fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.” she quoted me stating that he is sitting next to the father but still isn’t God himself. I couldn’t find anywhere online to refute this specific passage.
3. she believes Jesus was once less than the angels and that the Jesus and Holy spirit have powers from God but that these powers can be taken away. Jesus had to work his way up to be better than the angels

It is hard to figure her beliefs out since I can’t really gain much of a reference point but she is a Bible ONLY beleiver so i know i can only use the bible.

Help would be appreciated! God Bless

As for point three- Ask her where that is in the Bible! That’s wild.

Some verses that might help:

John 10:22 onward. Note to your friend in this passage the Jews accused him of blasphemy and tried to stone him. It was so bad he had to slip away and escape. They clearly understood him to say that he was God and tried to kill him.

John 8:42 onward. Note again to your friend that the Jews tried to stone him. This is because Jesus described himself with the name if God found in Exodus. I AM.

Matthew 1:22. The name Immanuel means. “God with us”

Isaiah 9:6. Flat out says he will be called “Mighty God”

John 1:1-14. “In the beginning was the Word and The Word was God…and the Word became flesh and dwelled among us.”

John 5:23 - that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

John 14:9-11 - Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?”

John 20:28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God,[a] which he bought with his own blood.**

Titus 2:13 - looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”**

 

[Robyn_p]

For her first objection, that because Jesus is called the Son of God, that therefore must mean he is unequal to God, show her that the bible actually says precisely the opposite. Might want to have her read John 5:17-18

But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working still, and I am working” This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath, but he called God his Father,*** making himself EQUAL with God.***

It’s impossible for any creature to be equal to God. So the only explanation is Jesus is God.

I’ll come back soon to answer her other objections, but I’m a little busy at the moment. Hopefully this will get you started though.

 

[SteveVH]

1. The bible often speaks about Jesus as “the son of God”, she believes this means he is less then God and is totally different.

Does she not understand the doctrine of the Trinity? You may have to start there.

1. Hebrews 12:2 “fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.” she quoted me stating that he is sitting next to the father but still isn’t God himself. I couldn’t find anywhere online to refute this specific passage.

That’s because there is nothing to refute. Sitting down at the right hand of the throne of God is language that implies power, not a literal sitting down. Again, she needs a good lesson in the Trinity.

1. she believes Jesus was once less than the angels and that the Jesus and Holy spirit have powers from God but that these powers can be taken away. Jesus had to work his way up to be better than the angels

Wrong. Jesus didn’t have to do anything. He freely chose to become incarnate; to put on the flesh of a human being so that he could suffer and die for us that we might spend eternity with him. Yes, in his human state he was “a little less than the angels”. But he never lost his divinity. All that he did, he did voluntarily, and in the end, he gave his very life and then took it up again. I would love to see a mere human do that.

It is hard to figure her beliefs out since I can’t really gain much of a reference point but she is a Bible ONLY beleiver so i know i can only use the bible.

Help would be appreciated! God Bless

Ask your friend where she obtained the authority to interpret Scripture on her own. This is her problem. Sacred Scripture cannot be interpreted apart from the faith from whence it came. Ask her if she is aware of the where the Bible came from in the first place. How does she or anyone else know that it is the inspired word of God? The answer, of course, is that the Catholic Church decided for the entire world what texts would be included in the Bible and that is the only way she or anyone else knows.

God luck and god bless.

 

[Porknpie]

I believe Jesus is God however I am having trouble explaining this to a friend. I have a dilemma with her because she doesn’t believe in any religion, all the beliefs she has she comes to on her own interpretations only from the Bible. Even though she won’t admit it, her beliefs are most closely related to Jehova Witness.

Some of the beliefs she has that I would appreciate if people can help me disprove.

1. The bible often speaks about Jesus as “the son of God”, she believes this means he is less then God and is totally different.
2. Hebrews 12:2 “fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.” she quoted me stating that he is sitting next to the father but still isn’t God himself. I couldn’t find anywhere online to refute this specific passage.
3. she believes Jesus was once less than the angels and that the Jesus and Holy spirit have powers from God but that these powers can be taken away. Jesus had to work his way up to be better than the angels

It is hard to figure her beliefs out since I can’t really gain much of a reference point but she is a Bible ONLY beleiver so i know i can only use the bible.

Help would be appreciated! God Bless

This is quite clear too

[BIBLEDRB]John 10:30[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Porknpie]

I believe Jesus is God however I am having trouble explaining this to a friend. I have a dilemma with her because she doesn’t believe in any religion, all the beliefs she has she comes to on her own interpretations only from the Bible. Even though she won’t admit it, her beliefs are most closely related to Jehova Witness.

Some of the beliefs she has that I would appreciate if people can help me disprove.

1. The bible often speaks about Jesus as “the son of God”, she believes this means he is less then God and is totally different.
2. Hebrews 12:2 “fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.” she quoted me stating that he is sitting next to the father but still isn’t God himself. I couldn’t find anywhere online to refute this specific passage.
3. she believes Jesus was once less than the angels and that the Jesus and Holy spirit have powers from God but that these powers can be taken away. Jesus had to work his way up to be better than the angels

It is hard to figure her beliefs out since I can’t really gain much of a reference point but she is a Bible ONLY beleiver so i know i can only use the bible.

Help would be appreciated! God Bless

Also, ask her

“How do you know that the books in your bible are both inerrant and inspired?”

“Who told you this and by what authority?”

“What was the infallible source that declared the books in your bible to be the written Word of God?”

“And when did this occur?”

Respuestas: La biblia fue escrita por, para y sobre la Iglesia católica. La Iglesia Católica declaró el canon es la Palabra de Dios en los sínodos de Hipona (393 DC) y Cartago (373ad). Ella está sosteniendo en la mano un libro católico.

Google translator is here

 

[Domini_cane]

If they believe that Jesus was a good person but not God

If someone told them that they were God, they would think that person was crazy

Well Jesus said he was God

 

[chero23]

Ask her to explain John 1:1. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Also, scripturecatholic

excellent source

 

[Robyn_p]

Ok I can finish now.

1. Hebrews 12:2 “fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.” she quoted me stating that he is sitting next to the father but still isn’t God himself. I couldn’t find anywhere online to refute this specific passage.

One thing I think you need to point out to your friend is we can’t take one verse of scripture out of context. Yes, if you read this one verse, it seems to be saying Jesus is inferior to God. Yet in this same letter, in Chapters one and two, the inspired writer already made crystal clear that Jesus was God. I’ll just quote a few verses, but read the entire first chapter of Hebrews for more context.

And [of the Son God says]

“Thou Lord, didst found the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of thy hands; they will perish, but thou remainest; they will all grow old like a garment, like a mantle thou wilt roll them up, and they will be changed. But thou art the same, and thy years never end.”(Heb 1:10-12)

That last quote, verses 10-12, the sacred author is quoting Psalm 102:25-27. That psalm is talking about God, but here the writer applied that psalm to Jesus! Only God created the earth, yet here the bible is saying Jesus did. Then in chapter 2:10 it says

For it is fitting that he, (Jesus) for whom and by whom ALL THINGS EXIST in bringing many sons to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through suffering. (Heb 2:10)

Again, saying Jesus created all things. We know from Isaiah 44:24 and Gen 1:1 that only God created the universe. That really leaves no other option except that Jesus must be God. (See Col 1:18 and John 1:1 for another clear reference of Jesus being the creator of all things. Also Acts 3:14 where Jesus is called the Author of Life, something only God can properly be called. No creature could be called the author of all life because then he’d be the author of his own life. Nothing can create itself.)

What you’re friend needs to see is we have to take the entire Bible in context. There are some verses where it appears Jesus is inferior to God…but then there are others like the ones I quoted and that other posters have quoted that clearly show he is God. Scripture can’t contradict itself, and the reason it doesn’t is because Christ has two natures, Divine and human. In his human nature, he is inferior to the Father, but in his divine nature he is equal.

1. she believes Jesus was once less than the angels and that the Jesus and Holy spirit have powers from God but that these powers can be taken away. Jesus had to work his way up to be better than the angels

I’m unaware of anywhere in the Bible that says Jesus and the Holy Spirit can lose their powers. There is a place, in Hebrews actually, that says Jesus became lower than the angels for a time. But in Phillipians it tells us what He lowered himself from:

Have this in mind among yourselves, which was in Christ Jesus, who, though in the form of God, did not count EQUALITY with God something to be grasped but rather, emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in the likeness of men. And being found human in appearance, he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.(Phil 2:5-9)

He was God, equal with God according to Paul, yet humbled himself and became man. Again, God has no equal. Unless He was God, that is the only way Jesus could have been equal with God.

It is hard to figure her beliefs out since I can’t really gain much of a reference point but she is a Bible ONLY beleiver so i know i can only use the bible.

Help would be appreciated! God Bless

Hope we were able to help a little!

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Has she read the part in hebrews where the father says “Thy throne o god is forever?” to the son? Hebrews might well be one of the works with hte clearest high christology in the new testament.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I believe Jesus is God however I am having trouble explaining this to a friend. I have a dilemma with her because she doesn’t believe in any religion, all the beliefs she has she comes to on her own interpretations only from the Bible. Even though she won’t admit it, her beliefs are most closely related to Jehova Witness.

Some of the beliefs she has that I would appreciate if people can help me disprove.

1. The bible often speaks about Jesus as “the son of God”, she believes this means he is less then God and is totally different.
2. Hebrews 12:2 “fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.” she quoted me stating that he is sitting next to the father but still isn’t God himself. I couldn’t find anywhere online to refute this specific passage.
3. she believes Jesus was once less than the angels and that the Jesus and Holy spirit have powers from God but that these powers can be taken away. Jesus had to work his way up to be better than the angels

It is hard to figure her beliefs out since I can’t really gain much of a reference point but she is a Bible ONLY beleiver so i know i can only use the bible.

Help would be appreciated! God Bless

You have a problem here because if you decide to go into a debate with this person who is clearly anti catholic, you will be giving your friend the attention that is desired from those who hold generally non accepted views. This gives them a sense of legitimacy, however illusionary and temporary.
Refuse to debate with a person who has told you that they believe in the bible only and still relies on either their interpretation of it or another source of influence on their interpretation of it when it was not assembled by bible only christians.

 

[siamus2k13]

I believe Jesus is God however I am having trouble explaining this to a friend. I have a dilemma with her because she doesn’t believe in any religion, all the beliefs she has she comes to on her own interpretations only from the Bible. Even though she won’t admit it, her beliefs are most closely related to Jehova Witness.

Some of the beliefs she has that I would appreciate if people can help me disprove.

1. The bible often speaks about Jesus as “the son of God”, she believes this means he is less then God and is totally different.
2. Hebrews 12:2 “fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.” she quoted me stating that he is sitting next to the father but still isn’t God himself. I couldn’t find anywhere online to refute this specific passage.
3. she believes Jesus was once less than the angels and that the Jesus and Holy spirit have powers from God but that these powers can be taken away. Jesus had to work his way up to be better than the angels

It is hard to figure her beliefs out since I can’t really gain much of a reference point but she is a Bible ONLY beleiver so i know i can only use the bible.

Help would be appreciated! God Bless

Be careful in how you use the word “believer.”

I don’t believe that trying to disprove a lot of beliefs in a person is the way to go.

Belief, is not as academic, as some people try to make it.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I don’t believe that trying to disprove a lot of beliefs in a person is the way to go.

It’s not as academic as some people try to make it.

This is another problem for the OP in a way. If you say there is no basis other than faith to believe in something, then any belief is “the way to go”

 

[siamus2k13]

This is another problem for the OP in a way. If you say there is no basis other than faith to believe in something, then any belief is “the way to go”

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the word of God.

The written word of God.

Priests, pastors, and bible teachers.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the word of God.

The written word of God.

Priests and bible teachers.

Not sure how faith comes by hearing, and hearing the word of God when both parties in this case must be thinking they are hearing it yet come to different conclusions.

The written word of God is a statement, and I can not know what you mean by that considering all Christians claim to use it and yet they all vary in how they interpret it.

Priests and bible teachers.
Another statement that does not help anyone know what you mean by that.

 

[Dallaz]

Does she not understand the doctrine of the Trinity? You may have to start there.

she doesn’t believe in the trinity, she doesn’t have reason to believe in it based on her own understanding

Ask your friend where she obtained the authority to interpret Scripture on her own. This is her problem. Sacred Scripture cannot be interpreted apart from the faith from whence it came. Ask her if she is aware of the where the Bible came from in the first place. How does she or anyone else know that it is the inspired word of God? The answer, of course, is that the Catholic Church decided for the entire world what texts would be included in the Bible and that is the only way she or anyone else knows.

God luck and god bless.

she states that the bible says no one will be able to know everything, definitly not a man here on earth but she is just trying

 

[siamus2k13]

Not sure how faith comes by hearing, and hearing the word of God when both parties in this case must be thinking they are hearing it yet come to different conclusions.

The written word of God is a statement, and I can not know what you mean by that considering all Christians claim to use it and yet they all vary in how they interpret it.

Priests and bible teachers.
Another statement that does not help anyone know what you mean by that.

Well…

Going by what you say, I must come to the conclusion, that no one can be saved.

We all are going to have somewhat differing conclusions, but it’s up to the reader/parishioner to seek help where it is needed.

 

[siamus2k13]

Well…I’ll chime in one last time.

The holy ghost supplies help.

 

[siamus2k13]

Well…I’ll chime in one last time.

The holy ghost supplies help.

Romans 8:26

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.