A friend's question

[Hrvoje]

A friend asked me the other day a question regarding masturbation… I told him what the position of the Church is, and explained why it is the way it is.
He said: “Ok, masturbation isn’t really my problem, you see. The thing is, my doctor ordered me to have sperm count, because he thinks I might be infertile. Now, since masturbation is a mortal sin, would I be committing a mortal sin by forcing sperm expulsion in order to have it tested; to see whether I’m infertile or not?”
He said he needs to do it as a part of a series of tests the doctor ordered him to take, which are connected to a condition he had a few months back.
Now, I read somewhere that forcing sperm expulsion for medical reasons - i.e. sperm counts etc. - are not sinful in the way masturbation is, so I told him that it wouldn’t be a mortal sin, since he wouldn’t be doing it for an immoral purpose.
Now, I did a little searching around the forum, since I really felt I needed to be sure about this one, because I didn’t want to be wrong here and be responsible for the guy committing mortal sin… And found several topics in which a lot of the posters wrote that giving sperm samples for a sperm count would indeed be a mortal sin, and that the only acceptable way to acquire the sample sperm would be to use a faulty condom during an intercourse with one’s wife.
BUT… the thing is… that friend of mine isn’t married. And he isn’t planing on getting married any time soon. Heck, he doesn’t even have a girlfriend…
Well… you can imagine how I feel now - I just okayed something which, if those posters are correct, would be a mortal sin.
So… It’s not to late to tell him that I was wrong on the issue… He’s having the test done in a week or so…
But then… What would be the right thing to do in this case? I assume he can refuse to take the sperm count, but I really don’t know how relevant it would be to his diagnosis.
Any advice?
Just, please, no “I think… but that’s just my opinion…”, since I really don’t want to advise my friend into a state of mortal sin…

 

[SHAKA_MAKA1]

Just curious, If he’s not married why does he need a sperm count done.

 

[Hrvoje]

Just curious, If he’s not married why does he need a sperm count done.

I didn’t really get it all either, but I think the doctor order the test to be done as a part of a larger number of medical tests, which are related to an illness he has had a few months back. He’s had his kidneys tested, had a number of x-rays taken of various parts of his body etc.

Also, it might be that he wants to know whether he will ever be able to have children; a piece of information which his future spouse may like to know before getting married.

 

[Geremia]

my doctor ordered me to have sperm count, because he thinks I might be infertile. Now, since masturbation is a mortal sin, would I be committing a mortal sin by forcing sperm expulsion in order to have it tested; to see whether I’m infertile or not?

Yes, masturbation is still a mortal sin. Evil means do not justify a seemingly good end.

 

[Hrvoje]

Yes, masturbation is still a mortal sin. Evil means do not justify a seemingly good end.

A source please? A church document; anything tangible I might offer to my friend?

Also, how should I advise him here? Of course, I wouldn’t ever tell him to commit a mortal sin, or any sin, but the diagnosis may be important.

 

[kage_ar]

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

**2396 **Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

Your friend can countact the Pope Paul VI institute for guidance on testing that will not violate your friends Christian Faith and Catholic teaching.

www.popepaulvi.com

 

[Hrvoje]

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

**2396 **Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.

Your friend can countact the Pope Paul VI institute for guidance on testing that will not violate your friends Christian Faith and Catholic teaching.

www.popepaulvi.com

I checked the Catechism before posting.
But the catechism references only masturbation in the sense of doing it for one’s physical pleasure. It contains nothing of the licit or illicit methods of obtaining sperm samples.

Also, since I live in a country which isn’t really doing great in medical technology, I really can’t imagine how my friend would obtain the sample without traveling abroad - and that, considering his financial status, isn’t a feasible option; granted that there even may exist some other forms of obtaining the necessary sperm sample.

Can someone provide a solid source dealing with this kind of medical case?

P.S.
The PPVI institute is located in the States - an altogether different continent!

 

[kage_ar]

The institute will respond to phone calls or email inquiries. I would suggest you post in the AAA section if the CCC reference is inadequate.

 

[Hrvoje]

The institute will respond to phone calls or email inquiries. I would suggest you post in the AAA section if the CCC reference is inadequate.

Ok, thanks, I’ll send them an e-mail.

It’s not that the CCC reference is inadequate, it’s that I think it doesn’t deal with the given context - it deals with the excitation of the sexual organ for the purpose of arousing oneself sexually and to experience physical pleasure. The thing my friend asked me was whether it was a sin if the purpose was to get a sperm sample needed to conduct medical tests his doctor ordered him to take, and not to arouse oneself sexually.

 

[dianaballein]

Just curious, If he’s not married why does he need a sperm count done.

It may have something to do with a prostate problem, or perhaps he injured himself and a concern was possible infertility…which would be a good thing to know going into a relationship with any woman.

Sperm is used for procreation just like the egg is for a woman. Women cannot produce an egg via masturbation to have the egg tested the way a man can. They have to have one painfully extracted. If it is for a possible health issue with his prostate, or as I said, to verify fertility prior to entering into serious (and possible marriage ending) relationships, then I can not see how this would be construed as sinful. There is no pleasure derived from a doctor forcing you to provide them a sample for medical reasons.

 

[kage_ar]

When married Catholic people have trouble with fertility, and a semen analysis needs to be done, the man cannot morally masturbate. He can have intercourse with his wife while wearing a special perforated condom (they can be procured through the Pope VI Institute I linked to above). Some semen remains in the condom, and that is used for testing.

As your friend is not married, this option is not available to him.

Your friend could investigate Per cutaneous Epididymal Sperm Aspiration (the doctor will remove a sample with a needle).

Another source for your friend might be the Center for Catholic Bioethics.

 

[Newbie2]

Boy, that’s a toughie. It’s not like he could get a sperm count with a perforated condom with his spouse in this instance.

Seems to me that if this is a legitimate medical concern, either now or for the future, there’d be a “sinless” way to test, seeing as that might be the only way to get a sample, depending on what they’re looking for.

“Your friend could investigate Per cutaneous Epididymal Sperm Aspiration (the doctor will remove a sample with a needle).”

Ouch. Possible, but ouch.

There’s the consideration also of whether there’s a risk of infection or complications with such a manner of sampling, although I’d guess they would be minimal.

Ouch. Glad my boys were able to do the job.

 

[Hrvoje]

I just got a reply from the AAA thread, and they said that my advice was sound.
Phew, what a relief!
Thank you for trying to help with any advice you might have had, and God bless.

 

[Geremia]

It’s not that the CCC reference is inadequate, it’s that I think it doesn’t deal with the given context - it deals with the excitation of the sexual organ for the purpose of arousing oneself sexually and to experience physical pleasure. The thing my friend asked me was whether it was a sin if the purpose was to get a sperm sample needed to conduct medical tests his doctor ordered him to take, and not to arouse oneself sexually.

Also from the (2352)Catechism of the Catholic Church:

The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.

From the section “How is homologous artificial insemination to be evaluated from the moral point of view?” of Instruction on respect for human life:

Masturbation, through which the sperm is normally obtained [for artificial insemination], is another sign of this dissociation [between “the two meanings of the conjugal act,” procreative and unitive]: even when it is done for the purpose of procreation, the act remains deprived of its unitive meaning: “It lacks the sexual relationship called for by the moral order, namely the relationship which realizes ‘the full sense of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love.’”

I hope this helps.

 

[mark_a]

When married Catholic people have trouble with fertility, and a semen analysis needs to be done, the man cannot morally masturbate. He can have intercourse with his wife while wearing a special perforated condom (they can be procured through the Pope VI Institute I linked to above). Some semen remains in the condom, and that is used for testing.

As your friend is not married, this option is not available to him.

Your friend could investigate Per cutaneous Epididymal Sperm Aspiration (the doctor will remove a sample with a needle).

Another source for your friend might be the Center for Catholic Bioethics.

I’m a faithful Catholic, but this seems to me to be over the top.

 

[Caesar517]

I just got a reply from the AAA thread, and they said that my advice was sound.
Phew, what a relief!
Thank you for trying to help with any advice you might have had, and God bless.

Based on everything else I have ever heard on this issue, that is not the case. I can’t seem to find your AAA thread; can you post a link to it?