A good laugh- Random post-modernism

  • Thread starter Thread starter Qoeleth
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Q

Qoeleth

Guest
Something which I found mildly amusing is a page which present randomly generated post-modernist philosophy papers:

elsewhere.org/pomo/

They are rubbish, of course.

It is not a valid critique of post-modernism, but perhaps a valid performatic critique of people who read philosophy with ‘pretentions of understanding’.
 
Something which I found mildly amusing is a page which present randomly generated post-modernist philosophy papers:

elsewhere.org/pomo/

They are rubbish, of course.

It is not a valid critique of post-modernism, but perhaps a valid performatic critique of people who read philosophy with ‘pretentions of understanding’.
Not knowing what in the world those folks are talking about ( who could ), I think we have more than one or two such personalities floating around the Philosophy Forum. I could be wrong mind you and I wouldn’t name names.

😃
 
Something which I found mildly amusing is a page which present randomly generated post-modernist philosophy papers:

elsewhere.org/pomo/

They are rubbish, of course.

It is not a valid critique of post-modernism, but perhaps a valid performatic critique of people who read philosophy with ‘pretentions of understanding’.
Hilarious! If you wouldn’t have told me that the article was randomly generated, I would have never known the difference.
 
Ha ha, that’s really funny. You could also generate some modern art in the same way.
 
Something which I found mildly amusing is a page which present randomly generated post-modernist philosophy papers:

elsewhere.org/pomo/

They are rubbish, of course.

It is not a valid critique of post-modernism, but perhaps a valid performatic critique of people who read philosophy with ‘pretentions of understanding’.
That would be just too funny if it wasn’t so close to the mark :p:p:p

Sarah x 🙂
 
Not knowing what in the world those folks are talking about ( who could ), I think we have more than one or two such personalities floating around the Philosophy Forum. I could be wrong mind you and I wouldn’t name names.

😃
The possibility of a parody, the paro (para?)/possi-bility, reveals in engagement with the haecity of the soi-disant post-modern, at the expense perhaps, of its ipseity. But is this anti-thesis of haecity and ipseity a mere illocutionary quasi-gesture, a rhetolalia, an attempt to sustain the thanatic mytheme of subject/object dyadity, to hyliciate an eidos- a final attempt to restore the phallocentrism of the Logos, whose very logocity is diminished by this very pluravocity, this fecundity, this emergence, not of the Logos but of toi logoi. Is this (ab)-use of the logology of de-construction an ironically non-utilitarian bricollage, an autocidal pseudo-bricollage sans object, whose failure is, ideo, success and whose (autem) success is failure. I, for one, am in-clined, so to think.
 
The possibility of a parody, the paro (para?)-bility, reveals in engagement with the haecity of the soi-disant post-modern, at the expense perhaps, of its ipseity. But is this anti-thesis of haecity and ipseity a mere illocutionary quasi-gesture, a rhetolalia, an attempt to sustain the thanatic mytheme of subject/object dyadity, to hyliciate an eidos- a final attempt to restore the phallocentrism of the Logos, whose very logocity is diminished by this very pluravocity, this fecundity, this emergence, not of the Logos but of logoi. Is this (ab)-use of the logology of de-construction a non-utilitarian bricollage, an autocidal pseudo-bricollage sans object. I, for one, am inclined to think so……
Bartender!!!

I’ll have whatever he’s drinking, same again for him, and whatever you’re drinking yourself 😃

Sarah x 🙂
 
Bartender!!!

I’ll have whatever he’s drinking, same again for him, and whatever you’re drinking yourself 😃

Sarah x 🙂
😃

I have to admit that at first I didn’t know what was going on, and my thought was that this was a terribly badly written paper!
 
An acquaintance of mine at college (who was a philosophy major) once jokingly told me that the point of philosophy is not to understand anything or come to any conclusions, but instead to make everyone else think they don’t truly understand anything and are not intelligent enough to reach absolute conclusions.😉

Anyway, in my own humble, non-philisophical opinion, I can say that some popular thinkers are truly brilliant people, while others simply like to use big words because they love to hear themselves talk.🙂
 
An acquaintance of mine at college (who was a philosophy major) once jokingly told me that the point of philosophy is not to understand anything or come to any conclusions, but instead to make everyone else think they don’t truly understand anything and are not intelligent enough to reach absolute conclusions.😉

Anyway, in my own humble, non-philisophical opinion, I can say that some popular thinkers are truly brilliant people, while others simply like to use big words because they love to hear themselves talk.🙂
A useful barometer upon which I stumbled during my university days, for gauging the effectiveness of academic writing in general, was as follows - good academic writing makes an initial point with clarity and simplicity, then each subsequent point adds more information and deepens the reader’s understanding; bad academic writing skirts around the edges of a point, never actually making it, and then every subsequent addition merely buries the not-quite-made point beneath more layers of confusion and obfuscation. This was brought home to me very effectively when I read Sartre and Derrida in fairly quick succession - Sartre made sense to me; reading (or I should say, attempting to read) Derrida was agonising…
 
A useful barometer upon which I stumbled during my university days, for gauging the effectiveness of academic writing in general, was as follows - good academic writing makes an initial point with clarity and simplicity, then each subsequent point adds more information and deepens the reader’s understanding; bad academic writing skirts around the edges of a point, never actually making it, and then every subsequent addition merely buries the not-quite-made point beneath more layers of confusion and obfuscation. This was brought home to me very effectively when I read Sartre and Derrida in fairly quick succession - Sartre made sense to me; reading (or I should say, attempting to read) Derrida was agonising…
A good observation.👍 Had I taken a philosophy course in college, I probably would have had to buy “Philosphy for Dummies” first.😃
 
Sartre made sense to me; reading (or I should say, attempting to read) Derrida was agonising…
Sartre can be quite challenging too. Particularly because he assumes a familiarity with the 3 H’s - Hegel, Husserl, Heidegger.

Derrida’s earlier works (e.g., Of Grammatology, Writing and Difference) are more accessible than some of his later “Joycean” works .

As with Sartre, to understand Derrida, you have to have a pretty grounding in the 3 H’s. Plus some exposure to Saussurean linguistics. For example, Derrida picks up on Saussure’s differential theory of meaning - e.g., to understand a specific word, you have to simultaneously understand the meaning of a whole bunch of other words. As in Hegel, words are “internally related”, like "north and “south”.

Sartre alludes to something like this when he talks about time. To “date” something, you have to already be familiar with a totality of time. Kant makes the same argument in the Critique of Pure Reason. It’s like the number line: to know where a specific “point” is on the number line, you have to have some familiarity with the line itself.
 
Something which I found mildly amusing is a page which present randomly generated post-modernist philosophy papers:

elsewhere.org/pomo/

They are rubbish, of course.

It is not a valid critique of post-modernism, but perhaps a valid performatic critique of people who read philosophy with ‘pretentions of understanding’.
Hi Qoeleth:

I remember using this Postmodernism Generator for fun several years back, after I had been informed of “the Sokal Affair”. For those who are not yet aware of it, in 1996, New York University Physics Professor Alan Sokal was fed up with what he saw as the pretentiousness and academic silliness of postmodernism in the Universities (particularly in the English departments and Social Sciences, but there are many other offenders). Basically, he took issue with the postmodernist idea that knowledge of the outside world is not real, or empirically/scientifically testable, but rather a “social construct”; ie, the mind constructs reality based upon its sense impressions (a big part of postmodernism is the idea that people create their own “meaning” from sensation, so your reality/truth may not be the same as mine…moral relativism, anyone?). As a physicist/astronomer, I was forced to go through a lot of this nonsense in the few “liberal arts” courses I took at the universities, and I used to lampoon it mercilessly every chance I got…so you can probably see where I’m going with this.

Anyway, Sokal thought that he could create a similar “postmodern” physics, as a hoax…argue that you could have a “socially constructed” reality for something esoteric, like quantum mechanics or gravity (an incredibly stupid idea, as gravity exists regardless of whether anyone in the world is there to “socially construct” it). So he wrote a super-abstract paper called “Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity”, using all the postmodernist language/theories to argue that much of modern physics was not objectively real, but rather, was a “social construct”. He submitted it as a joke to the Academic Postmodernist Journal Social Text, and guess what? They loved the paper! Finally, even the “hard sciences” would fall under the postmodernist spell! This was just what the intellectual philosophers wanted to hear. Completely taken in, they published it and gave it high praise. Then Sokal went public, and informed all the intellectuals that the whole thing was a hoax, and they had been roundly fooled by “a pastiche of Left-wing cant, fawning references, grandiose quotations, and outright nonsense . . . structured around the silliest quotations [by postmodernist academics] he could find about mathematics and physics”. Of course the postmodernist philosophers were furious, and the scientists all had a good laugh at their expense.

Background here if you’re curious to know more:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair

Wikipedia includes one of the mathematical put-ons in the article…ie, it sounds learned, but if you know what he’s talking about, you can see its a big joke: “Just as liberal feminists are frequently content with a minimal agenda of legal and social equality for women and ‘pro-choice’, so liberal (and even some socialist) mathematicians are often content to work within the hegemonic Zermelo–Fraenkel framework (which, reflecting its nineteenth-century liberal origins, already incorporates the axiom of equality) supplemented only by the axiom of choice.”

LOL…or should I say, “the experience or manifestation of mirth, amusement, scorn, or joy, carried out in a rambunctious or amplified manner, suitable for the hearing or sensation through the aural mechanism, of a humanoid biped”

Jacques
 
I thought that, without the observer, there is no collapse of the wave function in quantum mechanics. This may not be “social construction” but somehow the observer is still a necessary “ingredient” in the process.
 
Can someone explain to me the role of the observer in quantum mechanics? Isn’t consciousness a participant in the collapse of the wave function?
Hi Levinas:

I believe the physicist John von Neumann suggested something like this in the book, The Mathematical Foundations of Quantum Mechanics. Erwin Schrodinger and Eugene Wigner worked on it too. American physicist Henry Stapp followed up on the idea, suggesting (in a sense) that “consciousness causes collapse”. See his 2007 book, Mindful Universe: Quantum Mechanics and the Participating Observer. I think the idea is interesting but premature, as you don’t really need any human (conscious) observation or measurement to collapse the wave function…all you need is a measurement (perhaps a computer remotely recording some data points, say). I don’t think anyone would argue the computer is “conscious” (well that’s another can of worms I don’t want to open LOL). The “many worlds interpretation” seems to get around this, but this seems to me to be a desperate solution to a problem that isn’t really there. The easiest way is I think to argue that the wave function doesn’t need to be “collapsed”, but if it is, that is done by the measuring device, not the observer; this seems to be the view adopted by most mainstream interpretations of quantum mechanics, for what it’s worth:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantum_mechanics#Comparison_of_interpretations

Most Interpretations of Quantum Mechanics don’t even need collapsing wavefunctions, and of those that do, still fewer need conscious observers. I don’t know if this is helpful, or if it just muddied the waters more…I could be completely off-base here, I’m no expert on these matters (does anyone really know except for God?) If it made things worse, I’m sorry!

Jacques
 
Hi Levinas:

I believe the physicist John von Neumann suggested something like this in the book, The Mathematical Foundations of Quantum Mechanics. Erwin Schrodinger and Eugene Wigner worked on it too. American physicist Henry Stapp followed up on the idea, suggesting (in a sense) that “consciousness causes collapse”. See his 2007 book, Mindful Universe: Quantum Mechanics and the Participating Observer. I think the idea is interesting but premature, as you don’t really need any human (conscious) observation or measurement to collapse the wave function…all you need is a measurement (perhaps a computer remotely recording some data points, say). I don’t think anyone would argue the computer is “conscious” (well that’s another can of worms I don’t want to open LOL). The “many worlds interpretation” seems to get around this, but this seems to me to be a desperate solution to a problem that isn’t really there. The easiest way is I think to argue that the wave function doesn’t need to be “collapsed”, but if it is, that is done by the measuring device, not the observer; this seems to be the view adopted by most mainstream interpretations of quantum mechanics, for what it’s worth:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantum_mechanics#Comparison_of_interpretations

Most Interpretations of Quantum Mechanics don’t even need collapsing wavefunctions, and of those that do, still fewer need conscious observers. I don’t know if this is helpful, or if it just muddied the waters more…I could be completely off-base here, I’m no expert on these matters (does anyone really know except for God?) If it made things worse, I’m sorry!

Jacques
 
Jacques, your posting about quantum mechanics has been very helpful.

I don’t subscribe to relativism but I’m inclined to phenomenology, and even to a bit of postmodernism (if understood in the right context).

Truth as disclosure is a good starting point for philosophy. We are agents of truth because we are datives of manifestation. I apologize for this Heideggerian jargon but it does highlight our role in the “disclosure”.

Being shows itself as it is in itself only to us - not to any of the other creatures on earth.

So, in this sense, we are participants in disclosure.

Again, this is not necessarily relativism. For example, Husserl opposed relativism but accepted disclosure and our role as agents of truth.

But the question of history must be confronted. Does culture/language put any constraints on our understanding of Being? Is our understanding somehow finite, bounded?

This is a question that needs to be explored. Kant opened pandora’s box without perhaps knowing all the implications of what he was doing. Hegel injected history into the mix and then passed the torch to Heidegger (and Derrida).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top