R
reb108
Guest
Many of you know that I am a Hare Krsna (Krishna). But I am especially fond of Catholics. Anyhow, on a recent Facebook discussion, the following took place in response to this fellow, William, who is saying that Jesus is the only way. First someone else on Facebook and then me.
@William: There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Jesus existed. Zero!!! So no, we don’t know that he existed. Historians of his day wrote absolutely nothing about him. All we have are the gospels which are rife with contradictions and if you’d like, I would be more than happy to point some out to you…I would be more than happy to entertain such an argument. I’ve studied the Bible extensively. Bring it!
My Reply: Yes, I have serious issues with William’s recent dogmatic statements, as well. However, I also take issue with your position of “Zero” for Jesus. But I fear I would never be able to hold on in any debate with you. I’m just a guy who has lived a kind of mystical life, that brought me to Srila Prabhupada & Chaitanya deva (where I choose to pitch my tent). But part of that mystique had me curious about this 17th century nun, Sor Maria de Jesus. I was just killing time one day while my wife and her mother were visiting. I noticed an odd picture on the Sunday newspaper: Sor Maria’s picture. So I paid 75 cents and bought a copy to read; needing something to do.
Hm…I do think that there are things that are real, that we have no real evidence that they exists. I think I read about that in molecular physics or atom smasher. Pretty much over-my-head kind of stuff. Actually, all this proving this and that, and not this and that, borders on pain for me. Anyhow, I want to say a few more things. This is the thing about what you saying. I mean, for example, if Jesus does exist then your words are kind of harsh. Now, around 1630ish a group of Indians from San Angelo, Texas arrived at a Catholic mission just south of Albuquerque, New Mexico. I mean, this was normally no big deal, right? Indians were all over the place. But these Indians were as strange as if Martians had landed. Ok, this isn’t in the Holy Bible. But a college professor has researched this all out. The original records still exist today. So, at this particular point in time, the few Padres that were at the mission were positive that “Zero” white people, Europeans, or whatever had ever set foot in San Angelo. Sure, Coronado had wandered around parts of Texas 100 years earlier, but he was never in that part of the state. So when these 50 or so Indians showed up with actual wooded crosses, I guess the Padres just kind of looked at each other in disbelief. But it gets even more intense. So as you can imagine, I am finding myself glued to this newspaper.
The Indians were then able to tell the Priests where they were from and that they had come to be baptized with water. And as far as the icing on the cake, one or more of the Indian Chiefs had rosary beads. In fact, one of the Chiefs presented his rosary to the most senior priest as a gift, who was there at the time and a key witness to these facts. Let me look it up…yes, the mission was located at a place called “Isleta.” Anyhow, not wanting to write a book here, it ends up that this nun, way back in the north of Spain, in this little village, had been shutting herself in her room in the convent where she lived, and it some sort of love-of-God/Jesus induced trance (including levitating because that was seen by most of the villagers), she eventually admitted under oath to Jesus to tell the truth, that she had been preaching to the Indians in and around present day San Angelo, at least 500 different times. She also confessed that she had taken some rosary and had them in her room, but gave them to the Indians one day (in San Angelo - the same rosary that the chief had given to Father Benavides - that rosary was buried with him when he died years later).
I mean, this stuff isn’t in the Bible, either. But somehow there is this mystic power that many Catholics tap into when their love for Jesus gets really intense. What I mean is that they can be in two places at the same time. Or, bilocation. Yes, I agree. I have read it too, how Jesus never even existed. Except there are those rosary beads. Now isn’t that like something they call an “artifact?” I think that is the same word I read in the physics article about how they know something exists because of an artifact. Like I say, way over my head.
I don’t see receiving any mystical/spiritual powers by worshiping a “ZERO.” Oh yes, I was reading last year about St. Joseph of Copertino. He wanted to be a priest but was really a very slow learner and pretty much kept to the barn with the animals. Some time in the 1600s. Anyhow, he did become a priest. So the church would be full, of course, and Priest Joseph would arrive to say Mass. He would do his best. But then, more often than not, he would look up and gaze at a picture of Jesus’ mother, Mary, and then forget what he was doing. I think he had a hard time remember things and could barely read and write. But he was made a priest, by some divine trick. You have to read about that.
Anyhow, he would stop saying mass, even though everyone was there, right, ready for mass. They say this happened hundreds of times: he would look at the picture of Mary or a crucifix and slowly, in front of everyone, his body would start to lift off the ground. The people there said he would be way off the ground for like15 minutes or more. Like 3 feet off the ground. Sometimes at the tops of very high trees. Hundreds of times. OK, this isn’t in the Holy Bible either. Wow. I mean, if Jesus is just a myth of sorts, hm…I guess it doesn’t make any sense to me that all these things happened and every last one of these saints say it is all Jesus’ glory, …and then you say He doesn’t even exist???
@William: There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Jesus existed. Zero!!! So no, we don’t know that he existed. Historians of his day wrote absolutely nothing about him. All we have are the gospels which are rife with contradictions and if you’d like, I would be more than happy to point some out to you…I would be more than happy to entertain such an argument. I’ve studied the Bible extensively. Bring it!
My Reply: Yes, I have serious issues with William’s recent dogmatic statements, as well. However, I also take issue with your position of “Zero” for Jesus. But I fear I would never be able to hold on in any debate with you. I’m just a guy who has lived a kind of mystical life, that brought me to Srila Prabhupada & Chaitanya deva (where I choose to pitch my tent). But part of that mystique had me curious about this 17th century nun, Sor Maria de Jesus. I was just killing time one day while my wife and her mother were visiting. I noticed an odd picture on the Sunday newspaper: Sor Maria’s picture. So I paid 75 cents and bought a copy to read; needing something to do.
Hm…I do think that there are things that are real, that we have no real evidence that they exists. I think I read about that in molecular physics or atom smasher. Pretty much over-my-head kind of stuff. Actually, all this proving this and that, and not this and that, borders on pain for me. Anyhow, I want to say a few more things. This is the thing about what you saying. I mean, for example, if Jesus does exist then your words are kind of harsh. Now, around 1630ish a group of Indians from San Angelo, Texas arrived at a Catholic mission just south of Albuquerque, New Mexico. I mean, this was normally no big deal, right? Indians were all over the place. But these Indians were as strange as if Martians had landed. Ok, this isn’t in the Holy Bible. But a college professor has researched this all out. The original records still exist today. So, at this particular point in time, the few Padres that were at the mission were positive that “Zero” white people, Europeans, or whatever had ever set foot in San Angelo. Sure, Coronado had wandered around parts of Texas 100 years earlier, but he was never in that part of the state. So when these 50 or so Indians showed up with actual wooded crosses, I guess the Padres just kind of looked at each other in disbelief. But it gets even more intense. So as you can imagine, I am finding myself glued to this newspaper.
The Indians were then able to tell the Priests where they were from and that they had come to be baptized with water. And as far as the icing on the cake, one or more of the Indian Chiefs had rosary beads. In fact, one of the Chiefs presented his rosary to the most senior priest as a gift, who was there at the time and a key witness to these facts. Let me look it up…yes, the mission was located at a place called “Isleta.” Anyhow, not wanting to write a book here, it ends up that this nun, way back in the north of Spain, in this little village, had been shutting herself in her room in the convent where she lived, and it some sort of love-of-God/Jesus induced trance (including levitating because that was seen by most of the villagers), she eventually admitted under oath to Jesus to tell the truth, that she had been preaching to the Indians in and around present day San Angelo, at least 500 different times. She also confessed that she had taken some rosary and had them in her room, but gave them to the Indians one day (in San Angelo - the same rosary that the chief had given to Father Benavides - that rosary was buried with him when he died years later).
I mean, this stuff isn’t in the Bible, either. But somehow there is this mystic power that many Catholics tap into when their love for Jesus gets really intense. What I mean is that they can be in two places at the same time. Or, bilocation. Yes, I agree. I have read it too, how Jesus never even existed. Except there are those rosary beads. Now isn’t that like something they call an “artifact?” I think that is the same word I read in the physics article about how they know something exists because of an artifact. Like I say, way over my head.
I don’t see receiving any mystical/spiritual powers by worshiping a “ZERO.” Oh yes, I was reading last year about St. Joseph of Copertino. He wanted to be a priest but was really a very slow learner and pretty much kept to the barn with the animals. Some time in the 1600s. Anyhow, he did become a priest. So the church would be full, of course, and Priest Joseph would arrive to say Mass. He would do his best. But then, more often than not, he would look up and gaze at a picture of Jesus’ mother, Mary, and then forget what he was doing. I think he had a hard time remember things and could barely read and write. But he was made a priest, by some divine trick. You have to read about that.
Anyhow, he would stop saying mass, even though everyone was there, right, ready for mass. They say this happened hundreds of times: he would look at the picture of Mary or a crucifix and slowly, in front of everyone, his body would start to lift off the ground. The people there said he would be way off the ground for like15 minutes or more. Like 3 feet off the ground. Sometimes at the tops of very high trees. Hundreds of times. OK, this isn’t in the Holy Bible either. Wow. I mean, if Jesus is just a myth of sorts, hm…I guess it doesn’t make any sense to me that all these things happened and every last one of these saints say it is all Jesus’ glory, …and then you say He doesn’t even exist???
Maybe I guess I should say I’m a Catholic that defends Krishna. Iam too. 
And Swami Prabupada.