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CatholicGuyNY
Guest
Okay, Tom, I think it may be helpful for you define what exactly it means to be a “social trinitarian” (since from my brief reading on the matter, the definitions vary depending on the philosopher/theologian espousing such a view. It will also be helpful for you to contrast Social Trinitarianism with the Traditional/Orthodox Trinitarianism.CatholicGuyNY,
I appreciate your willingness to respond to my questions. I hope I am responding to yours.
I am not sure what you views are regarding the Trinity quite yet so I may be placing upon you things that I think I have learned from other folks. I would like to ask the below two questions. The first one is rather important because when you say, “What do you mean by “same”? Frequently, many people will say that “they are the same”, yet not clarify what exactly they mean by “same”. They are not the same Person. They are not physically the same.” I may be tilting at a neo-modalism you do not embrace.
I see two things in the above, but I wanted to check them out with you before I plod off unwisely.
First, it seems to me that you are a Social Trinitarian. You embrace the concept of homoousian for the three persons of the Trinity AND homoousian for all of mankind. Christ being the bridge between the two in that He was homoousian with us in His humanity and homoousian with God the Father in His divinity. Do I understand that correctly?
Second, you stated that Jesus Christ had the above two natures, He became human without ceasing to be God AND that we are to have the above two natures in that we are to become divine without ceasing to be human. Do I understand you here correctly?
Charity, TOm
I believe that I am a Traditional/Orthodox Trinitarian. I do not believe that there is any modalism (whether “neo” or whatever) inherent in the orthodox Trinity doctrine, and that any modalism apparent in the doctrine is due to the misunderstanding of the Trinity, whether by non-Trinitarians or many Trinitarians themselves. So, all of the views that I have presented are consistent with the orthodox Trinity belief. If you believe that they are not (and are calling them “social trinitarianism”, as a theology distinct from the orthodox/traditional Trinity), then as mentioned before, please provide the definitions of both theologies that you are using.
Yes, you are correct that I believe (and traditional Trinitarians believe) that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are homoousios/consubstantial, and that through the Incarnation, Jesus became consubstantial/homoousios with us (and we as humans are consubstantial with each other, in the sense that we all have human nature).