A hypothetical question

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I don’t want the State or socialized medicine controlling my life. That sounds horrid. Soylent Green.
I’m talking about your personal choice in the matter. No compulsion involved.

I assume that you would take steps to have yourself cured of a disease. If that disease manifested itself in violent behaviour, then if if it was simple procedure involved, then again I assume that you would want to be cured.
 
I say no. I endorse fairly liberal social welfare programs, but this gives too much power to a fallible state over man’s personal affairs. With this tech, and the power to dictate what’s legal or not, it becomes a thought and action total control state. And what of situations that involve self defense or defense of others from rogues or uncontrollable factors?

As a pure hypothetical with hypothetical restrictions, I’m not sure I have as many reasons to oppose this, but in all practicality, it’s a terrible idea that will inevitably fail. The reality just wouldn’t work in nature.
 
You must put a lot of faith in our justice system. Many “criminals” are wrongly accused and put in prison for crimes thy didn’t do. Likewise a lot of “crimes” are highly debatable. Likewise some crimes are done in the heat of passion and do not reflect the true character of the person who did the crime. Likewise rich people can buy their way out of a sentence. Get real. If you think the State is full of wise, just people you are completely duped.
No, I don’t. But it is still the best way to deal with criminals. God does not do anything.
 
I say no. I endorse fairly liberal social welfare programs, but this gives too much power to a fallible state over man’s personal affairs. With this tech, and the power to dictate what’s legal or not, it becomes a thought and action total control state. And what of situations that involve self defense or defense of others from rogues or uncontrollable factors?

As a pure hypothetical with hypothetical restrictions, I’m not sure I have as many reasons to oppose this, but in all practicality, it’s a terrible idea that will inevitably fail. The reality just wouldn’t work in nature.
The hypothetical was simple. Thoughts which lead to violence are independent of politics. And the hypothetical system would only prevent the action, not the “will”.
 
I am pleasantly surprised that there are at least a few “Yes” answers.

Now let’s go to the next step. A few days ago there was a thread on the “World News” sub-forum, about Nancy Pelosi invoking the “free will” question regarding abortions. The thread was: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1056147. Now the posters were absolutely livid about the implications. They were screaming bloody murder, that according to this proposition, every “immoral” act could be justified. Why were they so surprised, I cannot fathom.

If the “free will” is more important than preventing violent acts - as quite a few people said here - then why should they object to applying the same principle to abortions?
 
If the “free will” is more important than preventing violent acts - as quite a few people said here - then why should they object to applying the same principle to abortions?
It’s not simply a question as to free will, but as to the natural state of man and the state’s level of involvement. There is something repulsive to the idea of this thought-machine, even if the stringently white-washed hypothetical does away with the largest objections with its arbitrary rules, because those hypothetical rules would never translate to reality. It’s precisely when its translated reality that repulsion to the idea manefests itself.

That a state must exist on some level to uphold moral laws is a given. Hence why the state can have laws against and can exercise force to prevent crime. That the state is sure to enforce only just and moral laws is not. So it follows that the state properly should not have the level of authority over a person’s liberty your hypothetical places on it.
 
It’s not simply a question as to free will, but as to the natural state of man and the state’s level of involvement. There is something repulsive to the idea of this thought-machine, even if the stringently white-washed hypothetical does away with the largest objections with its arbitrary rules, because those hypothetical rules would never translate to reality. It’s precisely when its translated reality that repulsion to the idea manefests itself.

That a state must exist on some level to uphold moral laws is a given. Hence why the state can have laws against and can exercise force to prevent crime. That the state is sure to enforce only just and moral laws is not. So it follows that the state properly should not have the level of authority over a person’s liberty your hypothetical places on it.
Please concentrate on the problem as stated. There was not one word about the state. And thought experiments are not expected to translate into reality. There is no need to assume the existence of a state. The prevention of violence is the only assumption we make. Criticize the problem based upon what is explicitly given. Do not get into some slippery slope kind of analysis. 🙂
 
I’m talking about your personal choice in the matter. No compulsion involved.

I assume that you would take steps to have yourself cured of a disease. If that disease manifested itself in violent behaviour, then if if it was simple procedure involved, then again I assume that you would want to be cured.
Not at all. I would just let nature take it’s course, let God do his will. I do not trust most of the medical system at all. Do you? Do you take pills to change your mental state?
 
I say no. I endorse fairly liberal social welfare programs, but this gives too much power to a fallible state over man’s personal affairs. With this tech, and the power to dictate what’s legal or not, it becomes a thought and action total control state. And what of situations that involve self defense or defense of others from rogues or uncontrollable factors?

As a pure hypothetical with hypothetical restrictions, I’m not sure I have as many reasons to oppose this, but in all practicality, it’s a terrible idea that will inevitably fail. The reality just wouldn’t work in nature.
It could work, and it is a frightening idea. Fascist actually.
 
Didn’t Tom Cruise star in a film with a similar premise of “pre-crime” detecting “technology”?

Minority Report, or something like that.
 
Didn’t Tom Cruise star in a film with a similar premise of “pre-crime” detecting “technology”?

Minority Report, or something like that.
Actually I think a lot of science fiction writers have explored the idea.
 
I prefer the state to control the life of criminals.
This “new technology” you’re talking about would treat everyone like a potential criminal. It would be immoral to use something like it on anyone with no prior history of violence.
 
If you need to ask, you would not understand the answer.
You might be surprised. So…why would you say that a criminal’s free will is more important that the victim’s. I think you’re just trolling but I’ll wait.
 
Not at all. I would just let nature take it’s course, let God do his will. I do not trust most of the medical system at all. Do you? Do you take pills to change your mental state?
I don’t, but millions do.

I don’t know too many who distrust the medical sector.
 
You might be surprised. So…why would you say that a criminal’s free will is more important that the victim’s. I think you’re just trolling but I’ll wait.
Because criminality is defined by the state. Give the state this power, and in future years it will be used to crush political opposition; just as in the CCCP, critics of the state were declared insane and locked up or drugged.

ICXC NIKA
 
Because criminality is defined by the state. Give the state this power, and in future years it will be used to crush political opposition; just as in the CCCP, critics of the state were declared insane and locked up or drugged.
This “new technology” you’re talking about would treat
everyone like a potential criminal. It would be immoral to use something like it on anyone with no prior history of violence.
Not at all. The dilemma does not talk about “criminals”, it does not mention the state. It deals with someone raising an axe or wielding a gun ABOUT to commit some violent action THEN and THERE. And it such a case it would simply apply a quick, LOCALIZED intervention to make the person to forget what he intended to do.

Why can’t you simply deal with the presented problem, as it is?
 
Not at all. The dilemma does not talk about “criminals”, it does not mention the state. It deals with someone raising an axe or wielding a gun ABOUT to commit some violent action THEN and THERE. And it such a case it would simply apply a quick, LOCALIZED intervention to make the person to forget what he intended to do.

Why can’t you simply deal with the presented problem, as it is?
That would be mind control, its interesting to note there was PLENTY of experiments done in past decades that deal with this, who knows what they ever came up with (or what they are experimenting with right now)!

Just look at MK Ultra, that experiment was shrouded in secrecy for years, but eventually the details slowly came out and today we know it really did happen and what the intent was for this project.
 
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