A Jehovah's Witness just called me

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My friend, I am sorry but I find your questions a little confusing. :o

I am not certain how the Catholic church teaches you to be devoted to her. I have heard (and stand to be corrected) that some Catholics bow to statues of Mary and pray to her.
Personally, I would consider that worship.
But maybe you could convince me (or another Jehovah’s witness) otherwise. 🤷

Yet Jesus taught us to pray to his Father and no one else, (no pt even him.)
When we pray to the Virgin Mary, we are asking Her to pray to the Father for us; it is like you asking someone to pray for you, are you worshiping that other person? If not, why are you saying we worship the Lady Mary when we ask Her to pray for us?? :confused::confused:
 
When we pray to the Virgin Mary, we are asking Her to pray to the Father for us; it is like you asking someone to pray for you, are you worshiping that other person? If not, why are you saying we worship the Lady Mary when we ask Her to pray for us?? :confused::confused:
Ok. I understand what you are saying. Not worship. Good. 🙂

But what did Jesus tell us to do?
He said: “You should pray like this: ‘Our Father in heaven, ... ’” So prayers are to be addressed to the Father.
Jesus also said: “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one can come to the Father except through me. If you ask for anything in my name, I will do it.” (Matt. 6:9; John 14:6,*14, JB) So Jesus ruled out the idea that anyone else could fill the role of intercessor.
The apostle Paul added regarding Christ: “He not only died for us—he rose from the dead, and there at God’s right hand he stands and pleads for us.” “He is living for ever to intercede for all who come to God through him.” (Rom. 8:34; Heb. 7:25, JB)

If we truly want our prayers to be heard by God, would it not be wise to approach God in the way that his Word directs? 🤷
 
Jesus also said: “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one can come to the Father except through me. If you ask for anything in my name, I will do it.” (Matt. 6:9; John 14:6,*14, JB) So Jesus ruled out the idea that anyone else could fill the role of intercessor.

If we truly want our prayers to be heard by God, would it not be wise to approach God in the way that his Word directs? 🤷
Hi Regardless,

I have a friend who happens to be a Jehovah’s Witness. Sometimes I ask her to pray for me. When she agrees to pray for me, she is filling the role of an intercessor. No, she is not filling the special role of Jesus. Rather, instead of my having asked Mary to pray for me in that instance, for example, I have asked my Jehovah’s Witness friend. Is my Jehovah’s Witness friend wrong to pray for me then, since when she does, she is acting as an intercessor on my behalf? Should she tell me that as a Jehovah’s Witness she is not allowed to pray for me, that instead of asking her to pray, I should go and pray directly to Jesus?

Thanks,

~~ the phoenix
 
A Jehovah’s Witness just called me. I am paraphrasing in this whole post but she said “I would like to know if I could share some stuff from the Bible with you on suffering.” I replied “Mam, what religion do you belong to?” and she said “I am a Jehovah’s Witness.” I said, “I am sorry but I am not interested. I am a devout Catholic.” and she proceeded to talk some more. She said, “What do you know about the Jehovah’s Witnesses?” and I said “I know that Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe in the Trinity but I can assure you it is true.” She replied “Well, we don’t believe in the Trinity because there is no support for it in the Bible.” and I replied “Actually there is a lot of support for it in the Bible. If you want, you could give me your e-mail address and I could send you a few links where you could read about the Biblical support for the Trinity.” and she said, “No, I am not interested in that.” Then I said, “Well, I’ll be honest with you and I mean no offense here but I believe that the Jehovah’s Witnesses religion is a cult and that it is not Christian.” and she said, “Well I am sure a lot of people can say similar things about your religion but that doesn’t necessarily make it true.” I then said, “Well, that’s what I believe. Goodbye.” and then I hung up the phone.

So, I am sincerely hoping that I wasn’t too rude to her. I certainly didn’t intend to be rude to her. However, I ended the phone call when I saw that the conversation was going nowhere and I just didn’t feel like continuing to talk if we weren’t going to make any progress as to whether or not her religion was true or mine is true.

Anyway, I would appreciate any feedback on my conversation with her. Again, as I said, I did not intend to be rude. I hope I wasn’t. If I was, there is no way for me to apologize because I do not have her phone number because I don’t have caller ID. So, any feedback?
Holly,

I have a sense of humor and like to take a different tact…
 
Ok. I understand what you are saying. Not worship. Good. 🙂

But what did Jesus tell us to do?
He said: “You should pray like this: ‘Our Father in heaven, ... ’” So prayers are to be addressed to the Father.
Jesus also said: “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one can come to the Father except through me. If you ask for anything in my name, I will do it.” (Matt. 6:9; John 14:6,*14, JB) So Jesus ruled out the idea that anyone else could fill the role of intercessor.
The apostle Paul added regarding Christ: “He not only died for us—he rose from the dead, and there at God’s right hand he stands and pleads for us.” “He is living for ever to intercede for all who come to God through him.” (Rom. 8:34; Heb. 7:25, JB)

If we truly want our prayers to be heard by God, would it not be wise to approach God in the way that his Word directs? 🤷
Agreed. “He is living for ever to intercede for all who come to God through him." Regardless, would you pray to the Father for me if I asked? Or, would you tell me no and that I should simply take it directly to the Father myself?

 
Ok. I understand what you are saying. Not worship. Good. 🙂

But what did Jesus tell us to do?
He said: “You should pray like this: ‘Our Father in heaven, ... ’” So prayers are to be addressed to the Father.
Jesus also said: “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one can come to the Father except through me. If you ask for anything in my name, I will do it.” (Matt. 6:9; John 14:6,*14, JB) So Jesus ruled out the idea that anyone else could fill the role of intercessor.
The apostle Paul added regarding Christ: “He not only died for us—he rose from the dead, and there at God’s right hand he stands and pleads for us.” “He is living for ever to intercede for all who come to God through him.” (Rom. 8:34; Heb. 7:25, JB)

If we truly want our prayers to be heard by God, would it not be wise to approach God in the way that his Word directs? 🤷
Regardless,

So, here I see you are using Scripture verses, but how do you prove to someone that all Scripture is the inspired word of God…does the Bible say this?
 
Regardless,

So, here I see you are using Scripture verses, but how do you prove to someone that all Scripture is the inspired word of God…does the Bible say this?
Scripture simply tells us that “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness…”

Scripture does not say only scripture. Unfortunately, scripture does not specifically define “all” scripture. We need to go to the Catholic church (table of contents) to discover that information. Of course every catholic agrees that scripture is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

Scripture never tells us that scripture is the “sole rule of faith” or that scripture is "sufficient…"or that scripture is self-interpretive…
 
Scripture simply tells us that “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness…”

Scripture does not say only scripture. Unfortunately, scripture does not specifically define “all” scripture. We need to go to the Catholic church (table of contents) to discover that information. Of course every catholic agrees that scripture is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

Scripture never tells us that scripture is the “sole rule of faith” or that scripture is "sufficient…"or that scripture is self-interpretive…
Joe,

You are supposed to let the JW answer this question. Hold your thoughts until the JW answers.
 
I have heard (and stand to be corrected) that some Catholics bow to statues of Mary and pray to her.
Personally, I would consider that worship.
And you wouldn’t be alone in that. Baptist minister John R. Rice has a section in his book False Doctrines entitled “Worship of Mary Antichristian.” In that section he mentions several beliefs and practices of Catholics with respect to Mary: Mary was conceived without the taint or original sin (immaculate conception); Mary lived her life without personal sin; Mary’s body was carried away to heaven (assumption of Mary); Mary is a mediatrix, intervening between a Christian and Jesus. John R. Rice says Catholics: bow before shrines of Mary and adore her as the “Mother of God and Queen of Heaven.” John R. Rice says that this adoration of Mary, the ascribing to her of sinless perfection, and the prayers to Mary amount to worship.

Catholics, however, point out that “to worship someone is to acknowledge that the one who is worshiped is divine, is God.” And they do not at all say that Mary is divine. Some excerpts:

“Catholics hold saints in esteem because they are such wonderful images or mirrors of Christ . . . Devotion to the saints comes back to the theology of image: Christ is God’s image, the saints are Christ’s image. We honor them because we desire to imitate them. We pray to them the same as we call upon earthly friends to do a favor for us. . . devotion to Mary has taken many forms, and even has been confused with worship. Church teaching has consistently placed Mary in the company of the saints, however.” americancatholic.org/features/customs/rosary/mary_worship.asp

I tend to take what people tell me at face value. When a Catholic tells me he doesn’t worship Mary, I believe him, and I can see that there is a difference between honoring a saint and worshiping God. However, as another poster pointed out, while I might not want to denigrate or mislabel the actions of another, I still need to decide what is the proper course for me. That poster quoted a sentence from You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth. It comes from page 29, and in context reads:

“Since God does not approve of all religions [and this section goes on to give the worship of the Pharisees of Jesus’s time as an example], we need to ask: ‘Am I worshiping God in the way that he approves?’ How can we know if we are? It is not any man, but God, who is the judge of what is true worship. So if our worship is to be acceptable to God, it must be firmly rooted in God’s Word of truth, the Bible.”

A site called gotQuestions.org offers this analysis:

“Catholics argue that praying to Mary and the saints is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us. Let us examine that claim. (1) The Apostle Paul asks other Christians to pray for him in Ephesians 6:19. Many Scriptures describe believers praying for one another (2 Corinthians 1:11; Ephesians 1:16; Philippians 1:19; 2 Timothy 1:3). The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking for someone in heaven to pray for him. The Bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth. (2) The Bible gives absolutely no indication that Mary or the saints can hear our prayers. . . It is clear that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different from asking someone here on earth to pray for us. One has a strong biblical basis; the other has no biblical basis whatsoever.” gotquestions.org/prayer-saints-Mary.html

Another issue is that the role of Mary and other saints goes beyond the type of intercessory prayer we can ask of our family and friends here on Earth. Of Mary, this is said:

"Is her mediation merely by intercession, prayer for us to her Son and to God the Father? Or does she also play a role in the distribution of graces from the Father through her Son to us? Many today, influenced by Protestant theology, tend to speak of grace merely as favor, and so say grace is not a thing given. But that would imply Pelagianism, the heresy that says that we can be saved by our own power. For if God merely sits there and smiles at me, and gives me nothing, that would mean that I had to do it by my own power.

So we answer, since Mary was associated with her Son in acquiring grace for us, she will also share with him in distributing that grace to us." ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya4.htm

There also seems to be a difference in Catholic teaching between what can be expected of intercessory prayer from our friends and what might be possible from certain saints:

"In Acts we read of Peter and John going up to the Temple for prayer and encountering a beggar. Peter says to him, “I have neither silver nor gold, but what I do have I give you: in the name of Jesus Christ the Nazorean, rise and walk” (Acts 3:6). Peter makes it clear that he has the power of Christ in his possession.

To be sure, it is Jesus who heals, but Peter holds the right to extend that power. The same can be said of Paul. In Acts 19:11-12 we read, “So extraordinary were the mighty deeds God accomplished at the hands of Paul that when face cloths or aprons that touched his skin were applied to the sick, their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them.” These texts are the basis of the Catholic practice of asking saints to help us, of honoring (not worshiping) the bodies and relics of saints." americancatholic.org/features/customs/rosary/mary_worship.asp

I disagree with the teaching and practice as given in the Catholic quotes above, and I find no Biblical warrant for me to pray to anyone but God, but that doesn’t mean I have to define the actions of Catholics as “worship” when they plainly tell me it isn’t and can differentiate how they relate to God and how they relate to the saints.
 
Ok. I understand what you are saying. Not worship. Good. 🙂

But what did Jesus tell us to do?
He said: “You should pray like this: ‘Our Father in heaven, ... ’” So prayers are to be addressed to the Father.
Jesus also said: “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one can come to the Father except through me. If you ask for anything in my name, I will do it.” (Matt. 6:9; John 14:6,*14, JB) So Jesus ruled out the idea that anyone else could fill the role of intercessor.
The apostle Paul added regarding Christ: “He not only died for us—he rose from the dead, and there at God’s right hand he stands and pleads for us.” “He is living for ever to intercede for all who come to God through him.” (Rom. 8:34; Heb. 7:25, JB)

If we truly want our prayers to be heard by God, would it not be wise to approach God in the way that his Word directs? 🤷
Regardless, you quote Jesus saying ‘“I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one can come to the Father except through me. If you ask for anything in my name, I will do it.’ But yet, Jehovah’s Witnesses also do not pray to Jesus as an intercessor. Yet two of your scriptural quotes call him an intercessor. Very odd.
 
But what did Jesus tell us to do?
He said: “You should pray like this: ‘Our Father in heaven, ... ’” So prayers are to be addressed to the Father.
Jesus also said: “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one can come to the Father except through me. If you ask for anything in my name, I will do it.” (Matt. 6:9; John 14:6,*14, JB) So Jesus ruled out the idea that anyone else could fill the role of intercessor.
The apostle Paul added regarding Christ: “He not only died for us—he rose from the dead, and there at God’s right hand he stands and pleads for us.” “He is living for ever to intercede for all who come to God through him.” (Rom. 8:34; Heb. 7:25, JB)

If we truly want our prayers to be heard by God, would it not be wise to approach God in the way that his Word directs? 🤷
Peace my friend, it’s been a long time since I have heard from you. I’d love to continue our PM over the Deity of Christ, I had “assumed” you ran out of answers due to your no response :confused:

What if I could show you verses in scripture that show people openly calling out with their voices directly to Jesus in Prayer, without praying to the Father either before or after? Would this not equate to praying directly to Jesus? Wouldn’t this also make Jesus God in your eyes since only God can be prayed to directly?

Acts 7:59-60,* 59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.*

Here Stephen, who had just received a vision where he saw the Father in Heaven with the Son at this right hand, was being martyred. His last gasp of breathe on Earth was to call out to God/Jesus directly and to say “Lord Jesus receive my Spirit.”

**2 Corinthians 12:8-9, **8 Concerning this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. 9 And he hath said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my power is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Here we see that Paul was given a “thorn in the flesh” by Satan, and as a good Christian he turned to God in prayer when under attack by the fallen one. The being that responded to Paul’s prayers said “My grace is suffcient for you, and my power is made perfect in weakness.” Then Paul comes back and states that “the power of Christ” may rest upon him, referring back to the being that was just speaking with him. Here we actually see Jesus directly responding to Paul, who entreated to him directly 3 different times.

This of course is all in harmony with John 14:14 which has Jesus stating, "14 If you ask me anything in My name, I will do it.
 
I disagree with the teaching and practice as given in the Catholic quotes above, and I find no Biblical warrant for me to pray to anyone but God, but that doesn’t mean I have to define the actions of Catholics as “worship” when they plainly tell me it isn’t and can differentiate how they relate to God and how they relate to the saints.
Thank you jrtrent for your through and insightful post and allow me to add to this last statement…

I have often found how those who believe that I worship Mary, even when I have failed to convince them otherwise, :banghead:can also ask me other personal questions with the expectations of me answering these questions with truth that only I can give. Example: How are you doing today adf? Or How did you like the movie last night? I’m sure my actions could give some indication as to the answers to these questions but I am grateful I am given the opportunity to explain the frown on my face after seeing a new movie. I just often wonder if they truly believe it is because of what I tell them as opposed to some other reason.:confused:

I would truly like Regardless’s take on this as well as my questions above please.🙂

Peace!!!
 
And you wouldn’t be alone in that. Baptist minister John R. Rice has a section in his book False Doctrines entitled “Worship of Mary Antichristian.”
Catholics, however, point out that “to worship someone is to acknowledge that the one who is worshiped is divine, is God.” And they do not at all say that Mary is divine. Some excerpts:

“Catholics hold saints in esteem because they are such wonderful images or mirrors of Christ . . . Devotion to the saints comes back to the theology of image: Christ is God’s image, the saints are Christ’s image. We honor them because we desire to imitate them. We pray to them the same as we call upon earthly friends to do a favor for us. . . devotion to Mary has taken many forms, and even has been confused with worship. Church teaching has consistently placed Mary in the company of the saints, however.” americancatholic.org/features/customs/rosary/mary_worship.asp

I tend to take what people tell me at face value. When a Catholic tells me he doesn’t worship Mary, I believe him, and I can see that there is a difference between honoring a saint and worshiping God. However, as another poster pointed out, while I might not want to denigrate or mislabel the actions of another, I still need to decide what is the proper course for me. That poster quoted a sentence from You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth. It comes from page 29, and in context reads:

“Since God does not approve of all religions [and this section goes on to give the worship of the Pharisees of Jesus’s time as an example], we need to ask: ‘Am I worshiping God in the way that he approves?’ How can we know if we are? It is not any man, but God, who is the judge of what is true worship. So if our worship is to be acceptable to God, it must be firmly rooted in God’s Word of truth, the Bible.”

A site called gotQuestions.org offers this analysis:

“Catholics argue that praying to Mary and the saints is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us. Let us examine that claim. (1) The Apostle Paul asks other Christians to pray for him in Ephesians 6:19. Many Scriptures describe believers praying for one another (2 Corinthians 1:11; Ephesians 1:16; Philippians 1:19; 2 Timothy 1:3). The Bible nowhere mentions anyone asking for someone in heaven to pray for him. The Bible nowhere describes anyone in heaven praying for anyone on earth. (2) The Bible gives absolutely no indication that Mary or the saints can hear our prayers. . . It is clear that praying to Mary or the saints is completely different from asking someone here on earth to pray for us. One has a strong biblical basis; the other has no biblical basis whatsoever.” gotquestions.org/prayer-saints-Mary.html

Another issue is that the role of Mary and other saints goes beyond the type of intercessory prayer we can ask of our family and friends here on Earth. Of Mary, this is said:

"Is her mediation merely by intercession, prayer for us to her Son and to God the Father? Or does she also play a role in the distribution of graces from the Father through her Son to us? Many today, influenced by Protestant theology, tend to speak of grace merely as favor, and so say grace is not a thing given. But that would imply Pelagianism, the heresy that says that we can be saved by our own power. For if God merely sits there and smiles at me, and gives me nothing, that would mean that I had to do it by my own power.

So we answer, since Mary was associated with her Son in acquiring grace for us, she will also share with him in distributing that grace to us." ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya4.htm

There also seems to be a difference in Catholic teaching between what can be expected of intercessory prayer from our friends and what might be possible from certain saints:

"In Acts we read of Peter and John going up to the Temple for prayer and encountering a beggar. Peter says to him, “I have neither silver nor gold, but what I do have I give you: in the name of Jesus Christ the Nazorean, rise and walk” (Acts 3:6). Peter makes it clear that he has the power of Christ in his possession.

To be sure, it is Jesus who heals, but Peter holds the right to extend that power. The same can be said of Paul. In Acts 19:11-12 we read, “So extraordinary were the mighty deeds God accomplished at the hands of Paul that when face cloths or aprons that touched his skin were applied to the sick, their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them.” These texts are the basis of the Catholic practice of asking saints to help us, of honoring (not worshiping) the bodies and relics of saints." americancatholic.org/features/customs/rosary/mary_worship.asp

I disagree with the teaching and practice as given in the Catholic quotes above, and I find no Biblical warrant for me to pray to anyone but God, but that doesn’t mean I have to define the actions of Catholics as “worship” when they plainly tell me it isn’t and can differentiate how they relate to God and how they relate to the saints.
Jr,

and with all this…

Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic East/West worhip the Trinity in the mass and that is the only place worship is offered and the only ones to whom worship is offered.

The understanding comes in the understanding of worship…that Protestants have come to define as other than what it is.
 
Jr,

and with all this…

Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic East/West worhip the Trinity in** the mass and that is the only place worship is offered and the only ones to whom worship is offered.**
The understanding comes in the understanding of worship…that Protestants have come to define as other than what it is.
I did not know this Coptic.Please explain.
 
Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic East/West worhip the Trinity in the mass and that is the only place worship is offered and the only ones to whom worship is offered.

The understanding comes in the understanding of worship…that Protestants have come to define as other than what it is.
Like adf417, I could use further explanation of what you mean. When looking at the Catholic Catechism, worship in the Catholic Church doesn’t sound too far different from what Protestants believe:

*2096 Adoration is the first act of the virtue of religion. To adore God is to acknowledge him as God, as the Creator and Savior, the Lord and Master of everything that exists, as infinite and merciful Love. “You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve,” says Jesus, citing Deuteronomy.13

2097 To adore God is to acknowledge, in respect and absolute submission, the “nothingness of the creature” who would not exist but for God. To adore God is to praise and exalt him and to humble oneself, as Mary did in the Magnificat, confessing with gratitude that he has done great things and holy is his name.14 The worship of the one God sets man free from turning in on himself, from the slavery of sin and the idolatry of the world.
  • Prayer
2098 The acts of faith, hope, and charity enjoined by the first commandment are accomplished in prayer. Lifting up the mind toward God is an expression of our adoration of God: prayer of praise and thanksgiving, intercession and petition. Prayer is an indispensable condition for being able to obey God’s commandments. “[We] ought always to pray and not lose heart.”*

It would seem that the prayer life of a Christian is also an expression of worship to God, not just the mass. There is also a difference between private worship and public worship. Below is a link to one Anglican’s thoughts on public worship, along with his caution against his being the only possible correct understanding:

In commending these seven points as the essential parts of Christian worship it is more than likely that some things have been said with which other Christians do not agree. But this is not meant to be a judgment upon them in any way; nor does it mean that no one will be saved who does not fully agree with these essentials. However these points seem to stand out plainly on the face of the New Testament, and Christians attending a place of worship where any of these are neglected are suffering in consequence. churchsociety.org/issues_new/doctrine/anglican/iss_doctrine_anglican_RyleWorship.asp
 
What many call the Lords Prayer or Our Father prayer (we call it the model prayer) is found at Matthew 6:9-14.

Jesus gave it in response for a request on what to pray for. So the subjects are most important: God’s name, the Kingdom, God’s will… 👍

But notice in verse 7 Jesus warned: “Don’t say the same thing over and over like men of the nations…” (or “don’t use vain repetitions like the heathens” … or “do not heap up phrases (multiply words, repeating the same ones over and over) as the Gentiles do…”) :rolleyes:

So he didn’t want us to just recite the prayer over and over like a lucky charm and not even consider what it means. Jehovah’s Witnesses try to follow that instruction. 🙂
Ah, but Regardless, that’s just it…“don’t use vain repetitions like the heathens”. Jesus is referencing some of the pagans at the time, who simply babbled various names of their false gods without any structure, meaning or anything otherwise, in an attempt to “get them to listen.”

Do you really think that the Our Father is an empty, meaningless prayer? Do you really think that Jesus was against repetition for repetition’s sake, or did he have a more concrete example in mind? Do you think the angels were in error when, at Christ’s birth, they repeated “Holy, Holy, Holy?”

See, these are the things one must keep in mind about Scripture; everything has its correct context, within history, within the larger book wherein comes the verse, within the Bible as a whole, and within context of Jesus’ death and Resurrection.

If you don’t read Scripture with this in mind, then anyone can interpret anything however they’d like. How lucky we all are, that Jesus left us a Church to guide and instruct us for over 2000 years!

What would you say to all that? Please respond, I would love to hear your thoughts.
 
Ah, but Regardless, that’s just it…“don’t use vain repetitions like the heathens”. Jesus is referencing some of the pagans at the time, who simply babbled various names of their false gods without any structure, meaning or anything otherwise, in an attempt to “get them to listen.”

Do you really think that the Our Father is an empty, meaningless prayer? Do you really think that Jesus was against repetition for repetition’s sake, or did he have a more concrete example in mind? Do you think the angels were in error when, at Christ’s birth, they repeated “Holy, Holy, Holy?”

See, these are the things one must keep in mind about Scripture; everything has its correct context, within history, within the larger book wherein comes the verse, within the Bible as a whole, and within context of Jesus’ death and Resurrection.

If you don’t read Scripture with this in mind, then anyone can interpret anything however they’d like. How lucky we all are, that Jesus left us a Church to guide and instruct us for over 2000 years!

What would you say to all that? Please respond, I would love to hear your thoughts.
👍 Thinking that our Lord’s prayer, if said more than once, twice or three times, is nothing more than vain repetition and therefore bad, is mind-boggling IMHO. :eek:
 
A Jehovah’s Witness just called me. I am paraphrasing in this whole post but she said “I would like to know if I could share some stuff from the Bible with you on suffering.” I replied “Mam, what religion do you belong to?” and she said “I am a Jehovah’s Witness.” I said, “I am sorry but I am not interested. I am a devout Catholic.” and she proceeded to talk some more. She said, “What do you know about the Jehovah’s Witnesses?” and I said “I know that Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t believe in the Trinity but I can assure you it is true.” She replied “Well, we don’t believe in the Trinity because there is no support for it in the Bible.” and I replied “Actually there is a lot of support for it in the Bible. If you want, you could give me your e-mail address and I could send you a few links where you could read about the Biblical support for the Trinity.” and she said, “No, I am not interested in that.” Then I said, “Well, I’ll be honest with you and I mean no offense here but I believe that the Jehovah’s Witnesses religion is a cult and that it is not Christian.” and she said, “Well I am sure a lot of people can say similar things about your religion but that doesn’t necessarily make it true.” I then said, “Well, that’s what I believe. Goodbye.” and then I hung up the phone.

So, I am sincerely hoping that I wasn’t too rude to her. I certainly didn’t intend to be rude to her. However, I ended the phone call when I saw that the conversation was going nowhere and I just didn’t feel like continuing to talk if we weren’t going to make any progress as to whether or not her religion was true or mine is true.

Anyway, I would appreciate any feedback on my conversation with her. Again, as I said, I did not intend to be rude. I hope I wasn’t. If I was, there is no way for me to apologize because I do not have her phone number because I don’t have caller ID. So, any feedback?
The JWs are making pone calls now?
 
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