A Latin Movement

[lucybeebee]

Judaism went through a period similar to the effects of Vatican II during the late 18th and 19th centuries. Many educated Jews were ashamed to be Jewish, referring to themselves as being of the “Mosaic confession.” European synagoges began to resemble churches so they wouldn’t look so obviously Jewish. Hebrew was seldom used even for religious purposes. Services were marked by loud conversation and even fisticuffs by the few people who bothered to show up.

Where am I going with this? Efforts were made to improve Jewish education and Jewish identity. Hebrew, a language that was on life support not too long ago is now a spoken vernacular tongue. I think that Catholics need a similar movement to re-educate themselves about the beauty of their heritage and to create a sense of identity. It would encourage the study of Latin, Catholic history, architecture, and music. Perhaps if lukewarm, cafeteria, or former Catholics knew what they were throwing away, they would gain a better appreciation for the Church.

 

[ethelzguy]

Judaism went through a period similar to the effects of Vatican II during the late 18th and 19th centuries. Many educated Jews were ashamed to be Jewish, referring to themselves as being of the “Mosaic confession.” European synagoges began to resemble churches so they wouldn’t look so obviously Jewish. Hebrew was seldom used even for religious purposes. Services were marked by loud conversation and even fisticuffs by the few people who bothered to show up.

Where am I going with this? Efforts were made to improve Jewish education and Jewish identity. Hebrew, a language that was on life support not too long ago is now a spoken vernacular tongue. I think that Catholics need a similar movement to re-educate themselves about the beauty of their heritage and to create a sense of identity. It would encourage the study of Latin, Catholic history, architecture, and music. Perhaps if lukewarm, cafeteria, or former Catholics knew what they were throwing away, they would gain a better appreciation for the Church.

As if the Latin language is/was all that makes us unique?

I think we have much more to establish our “sense of identity” than a “universal language”.

 

[consumedconvert]

I suppose if I to structure an education program, rather than focus on Latin per se I would instead set aside some time to focus on what I suppose must be called the “trappings” of our past–Gregorian Chant, different styles of Church architecture, a history of Papal encyclicals, the lives of the saints of different periods, and also take pains to educate about the history of the non-Latin rites and the precarious position of many in those Rites today.

 

[lucybeebee]

My idea wasn’t to make Latin a vernacular language again, as was the case with Hebrew, but to familiarize Catholics with it again. Not everyone has the ability to read the Vulgate in Latin, but it shouldn’t be too hard to learn the rosary prayers in Latin or to be able to appreciate the fruits of the Latin language. I think that St. John Cantius in Chicago has a adult education program that is similar to what I’m thinking of.

 

[Jacafamala]

My idea wasn’t to make Latin a vernacular language again, as was the case with Hebrew, but to familiarize Catholics with it again. Not everyone has the ability to read the Vulgate in Latin, but it shouldn’t be too hard to learn the rosary prayers in Latin or to be able to appreciate the fruits of the Latin language. I think that St. John Cantius in Chicago has a adult education program that is similar to what I’m thinking of.

Now that is a wonderful idea.

 

[michaeldaniels]

I agree…like returning the Tabernacle to a place of prominence and focus…allowing only Men to serve on the Altar…Communion rails and receiving on the tongue only…return the statues and stained glass…lets say the 3 Hail Mary’s, the Hail Holy Queen, Prayer to St. Michael, etc. after Mass…urge frequent confession…Priest should start saying homilies that are sound Catholic doctrine…we need solid Catechesis for new Catholics and converts…the liberal rectors of seminaries should be replaced with orthodox Priest…this is only the tip of the iceberg…so much more should be done.

As if the Latin language is/was all that makes us unique?

I think we have much more to establish our “sense of identity” than a “universal language”.

 

[ethelzguy]

I agree…like returning the Tabernacle to a place of prominence and focus.

You’ll get no argument from me on that one

 

[lucybeebee]

I agree…like returning the Tabernacle to a place of prominence and focus…allowing only Men to serve on the Altar…Communion rails and receiving on the tongue only…return the statues and stained glass…lets say the 3 Hail Mary’s, the Hail Holy Queen, Prayer to St. Michael, etc. after Mass…urge frequent confession…Priest should start saying homilies that are sound Catholic doctrine…we need solid Catechesis for new Catholics and converts…the liberal rectors of seminaries should be replaced with orthodox Priest…this is only the tip of the iceberg…so much more should be done.

The problem is that the average Catholic doesn’t understand the importance of any of this. They probably don’t comprehend why it’s better to receive Communion kneeling rather than standing, why a church should look like a church (as opposed to, say, a fall-out shelter), why they need to go to Confession (as opposed to going to a shrink, or why Gregorian chant is superior to liturgical dance. I think if many Catholics understood what everything meant it would do a great deal towards strengthening the Church. Latin is just one part of the strategy. Granted, I think that many Catholics just don’t care to begin with, but I also think that if we can reach the ones who just need a good kick in the pants to take their religion more seriously, then that would be very helpful.

 

[rwoehmke]

Granted, I think that many Catholics just don’t care to begin with, but I also think that if we can reach the ones who just need a good kick in the pants to take their religion more seriously, then that would be very helpful.

I take my religion very seriously, but aside from nostalgia have no desire to return to the way things were 60 or 70 years ago. More priests, increased reverence, better catechesis, frequent confession, higher Mass attendance, increased use of the classic hymns? Yes. but all the other stuff. No thanks. Nor do I need liturgical dancers and drums at Mass .

 

[Conservative]

My idea wasn’t to make Latin a vernacular language again, as was the case with Hebrew, but to familiarize Catholics with it again. Not everyone has the ability to read the Vulgate in Latin, but it shouldn’t be too hard to learn the rosary prayers in Latin or to be able to appreciate the fruits of the Latin language. I think that St. John Cantius in Chicago has a adult education program that is similar to what I’m thinking of.

Lucybee -
Latin is no more difficult to learn than it is to learn any new language, unless the characters are different than our own - for instance, our “a,b,c” alphabet versus an Oriental, Hebrew or other script (forgive me, I don’t know the right terms.) I think there’s a resistance to learning it - not by memory but just following in their missal with their own vernacular on the opposite page - plain and simple - with perhaps one instruction class, if so desired, offered by the Church in Catechism classes.

As to the Rosary, I’ve heard it done by schoolchildren - My apologies to the good instructors who I know work hard at these children’s solid Catholic upbringing - but the Rosary and personal prayers, I believe, could remain personal preference. The issue of Latin comes down to the Mass where translations to vernacular might result in a change in the words. That being said, I can’t imagine why anyone would resist learning just enough Latin to follow the Mass.

 

[ethelzguy]

I take my religion very seriously, but aside from nostalgia have no desire to return to the way things were 60 or 70 years ago. More priests, increased reverence, better catechesis, frequent confession, higher Mass attendance, increased use of the classic hymns? Yes. but all the other stuff. No thanks. Nor do I need liturgical dancers and drums at Mass .

:yup: :tiphat:

 

[lucybeebee]

I take my religion very seriously, but aside from nostalgia have no desire to return to the way things were 60 or 70 years ago. More priests, increased reverence, better catechesis, frequent confession, higher Mass attendance, increased use of the classic hymns? Yes. but all the other stuff. No thanks. Nor do I need liturgical dancers and drums at Mass .

Who said anything about 60 or 70 years ago? Trying to make Catholics know their history and understand the Mass has nothing to do with whatever was going on in the US 50, 60, or 70 years ago. At that time, American Catholicism was largely characterized by the existence of the immigrant ghetto for the most part, which we couldn’t return to even if we wanted to, due to assimilation and changed economic patterns. Up until recently, Latin and Greek were studied even in secular and Protestant schools because there was a general understanding that it was important to understand the classics of Western Civilization.