A Lesson in Biology (needed for a California judge)

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Jay74:
Homosexual marriage will hurt children. I know you don’t believe that, but it will.

And most of us who oppose homosexual marriage do not do so out of bigotry or hatred. Two homosexual men were involved in my wedding–one sang, the other played piano. They are wonderful men, and are unique in that they both grew up with mothers and fathers, and disagree with homosexual marriage as well. Talk about selfless, they express concern over children if marriage is redefined.

Sure, there are some bigots. But don’t use that as an ad hominem weapon against the many with good intentions and reasons, just to shoot someone down without making intellectual arguments–it will only dull your mind.
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How will it hurt children? That is silly and baseless. Why did you invite two gays to your wedding? Weren’t you afraid that they would spoil it by hurting the children there?
 
Traditional Ang:
Norbert:

Putting the Sacred Scriptures and its prohibitions aside…

Societies, both Christian and otherwise, have defined marriage as being between men and women for some 25,000 years, or as long as the institution’s existed. Societies have always stated that marriages were for the BENEFIT OF THE SOCIETIES and the SURVIVAL of the Tribes or the Human Species.

I’m sorry, but I fail to see how HOMOSEXAUL MARRIAGE, which is INCAPABLE of Reproduction would be capable of giving any of those BENEFITS TO SOCIETY!

If you’d care to show me how, I’ll listen, but I refuse to listen to anyone who resorts to calling me and mine “bigots” without the slightest proof of the bigotry, and I see NO reason why anyone else here should listen to you either.

Norbert, You’re the one who wants society to change to fit your desires. It is up to you to demonstrate by clear and convincing evidence that the change is necessary, that it is good and that it would cause less harm than the present situation.

ALL those pushing social change in DEMOCRACIES have had to do that. It’s part of living in a Democratic and Civil Society. The only ones who haven’t have been those who circumvented the Democratic process like thos pushing Gay Marriage are doing. Please realize that those who believe in the Democratic process resent having someone circumvent the Democratic process to shove his agenda down our throats.

So, you might want to try to make your case, and you’re not going to do it by calling everyone who disagrees with you “Bigots”.

Blessed are those who act to save God’s Little Ones. Michael
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Tell me how a gay civil union is going to affect adversely the “survival of the human species.” Are you going to be tempted to leave your wife and family for another man? I doubt it. I won’t be. I’m straight. My contribution to the survival of Homo sapiens will be intact. Many gays seek to affirm their deep commitment to one another with the legal recognition that a “civil union” would provide. Fine with me. Why should it not be? There’s nothing “religious” implied by a civil union, and for the life of me I don’t see why people should get so worked up about it. There are so, so, so many other things wrong with this world - things that really matter, like suffering, poverty, disease, neglect - that I think it is ridiculous for people who call themselves “followers of Christ” to be obsessed about something trivial and stupid like gay civil unions at the expense of ignoring things like the above that I think Jesus would actually care about.
 
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norbert:
Tell me how a gay civil union is going to affect adversely the “survival of the human species.” Are you going to be tempted to leave your wife and family for another man? I doubt it. I won’t be. I’m straight. My contribution to the survival of Homo sapiens will be intact. Many gays seek to affirm their deep commitment to one another with the legal recognition that a “civil union” would provide. Fine with me. Why should it not be? There’s nothing “religious” implied by a civil union, and for the life of me I don’t see why people should get so worked up about it. There are so, so, so many other things wrong with this world - things that really matter, like suffering, poverty, disease, neglect - that I think it is ridiculous for people who call themselves “followers of Christ” to be obsessed about something trivial and stupid like gay civil unions at the expense of ignoring things like the above that I think Jesus would actually care about.
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From this argument it sounds like you are the one that is distrubed and obsessed. Try a little understanding and I would ask you to pray about it.
 
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norbert:
How will it hurt children?
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Because children should have a mother and father. Gay marriage, by design will deprive many children of this. Many things cause children to lose a mother or father, but gay marriage would guarantee it. It would only be a matter of time before there is affirmative action and quotas in adoption to gay parents.

Two gay men can be good fathers, but can’t be good mothers. Two lesbians can be good mothers, but not fathers. The situation would hurt children. No question.
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norbert:
That is silly and baseless.
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With gay marriage, we announce that there is nothing special about fathers, because two mothers are equal. And we announce there is nothing special about mothers, because two fathers are equal. Increased fatherlessness has been a disaster for our country–I’m not willing to experiment with motherlessness now.

There is nothing silly and baseless about wanting children to have a mother and a father.
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norbert:
Why did you invite two gays to your wedding?
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Because they are good men, regardless of their orientation, and I’m not a bigot.
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norbert:
Weren’t you afraid that they would spoil it by hurting the children there?
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You call other people’s comments dumb, silly, and baseless. With this comment, are you the pot or the kettle?
 
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norbert:
What is your point about Matthew Shepard? His death is an example of what happens when the “gays are wrong, gays are sinners, gays are evil” mentality gets taken to heart by the ignorant.
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As usual, norbert, you’re wrong. Matthew Shepard’s murderers were not motivated by hatred of Shepard’s homosexuality. The killing was drug-related.

Aaron McKinney, Shepard’s killer, was a meth addict flying high during what was a robbery that went terribly wrong. Shepard himself was a meth user, and he knew McKinney. The two had “partied” together more than once. According to sources close to McKinney, McKinney was not only a meth addict but is also bisexual. It is possible his association with Shepard extended beyond drug abuse.

Matthew Shepard was a confused, tragic young man with a drug problem. His homosexuality had nothing to do with his death.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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norbert:
I don’t remember Jesus saying anything about homosexuality. He certainly wasn’t preoccupied with it like many people on this board.

What is your point about Matthew Shepard? His death is an example of what happens when the “gays are wrong, gays are sinners, gays are evil” mentality gets taken to heart by the ignorant.
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My point wasn’t about Jesus and homosexuality. You were calling us bigots for calling sin for what it was. The point was about Jesus calling sin for what it was- which makes Jesus a bigot too, in your eyes.

And I made a mistake when I brought up Matthew Shepard. I thought that he died because he was gay. But, yes, when that mentality gets taken to heart by the ignorant, things like this happen. Problem is, calling sin, sin, is not the same thing as calling someone names, or hitting them because of their sexual orientation(or color, or gender, or religion), or killing them for the same thing.
 
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mlchance:
As usual, norbert, you’re wrong. Matthew Shepard’s murderers were not motivated by hatred of Shepard’s homosexuality. The killing was drug-related. ***Actually, I brought him up as an example of bigotry. I did not know that drugs were the reason for his death. norbert was simply responding. Wrongly, but that’s all he was doing. And was this in the MSM? I thought that they were saying that it was due to homophobia. ***

Aaron McKinney, Shepard’s killer, was a meth addict flying high during what was a robbery that went terribly wrong. Shepard himself was a meth user, and he knew McKinney. The two had “partied” together more than once. According to sources close to McKinney, McKinney was not only a meth addict but is also bisexual. It is possible his association with Shepard extended beyond drug abuse.

Matthew Shepard was a confused, tragic young man with a drug problem. His homosexuality had nothing to do with his death.

– Mark L. Chance.
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mlchance:
As usual, norbert, you’re wrong. Matthew Shepard’s murderers were not motivated by hatred of Shepard’s homosexuality. The killing was drug-related.

Aaron McKinney, Shepard’s killer, was a meth addict flying high during what was a robbery that went terribly wrong. Shepard himself was a meth user, and he knew McKinney. The two had “partied” together more than once. According to sources close to McKinney, McKinney was not only a meth addict but is also bisexual. It is possible his association with Shepard extended beyond drug abuse.

Matthew Shepard was a confused, tragic young man with a drug problem. His homosexuality had nothing to do with his death.

– Mark L. Chance.
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OK. Gays have never,ever been bullied or roughed-up because of their sexual orientation.
 
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norbert:
OK. Gays have never,ever been bullied or roughed-up because of their sexual orientation.
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No one said that they weren’t. You read WAY TOO MUCH into things and don’t focus on the specifics.

That said, it is absolutely and unequivocably wrong to do this to someone because of their sexual orientation.
 
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Jay74:
Homosexual couples may not procreate, he argued, but they can cause procreation. Cause procreation?
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:rotfl:

How does that work? 🤓 Wait…wasn’t there a disco tune about that? Something like…voulez-vous causer la procreation avec moi…

Used to be: I can’t get no…procreation.
 
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