A letter from a woman in Hell

[Seagull]

It seems like a made up story - a few things
An extremely intelligent person wrote that - 40 minutes in reading it all.
Did she, this jealous woman,meet her parents in Hell…
The devil grabbed her at a young age - drunkard father,
But others still grew up fine
She forgot and didn’t want any goodness…
She did much for show…including confession…
And the marriage sacrament - over the man -
The nun seemed bothered she had no success with her…
So much so, that she put this ‘letter’ in writing…

 

[PetraG]

It seems like a made up story - a few things

An extremely intelligent person wrote that - 40 minutes in reading it all.

Did she, this jealous woman,meet her parents in Hell…

The devil grabbed her at a young age - drunkard father,

But others still grew up fine

She forgot and didn’t want any goodness…

She did much for show…including confession…

And the marriage sacrament - over the man -

The nun seemed bothered she had no success with her…

So much so, that she put this ‘letter’ in writing…

It is very possible that the news of this acquaintance’s death upset this sister a lot. She may have been under a temptation to despair of her afterlife. I could believe some religious sister at some time somewhere had a vivid dream like this.

That is the only thing that concerns me about this letter: that is, the way it encourages someone praying for the poor souls to despair of their salvation. While someone speaking from Hell might well discourage any prayer of any kind, that does not mean ceasing prayer would have been the appropriate thing to do even under the circumstance described! Such a dream could be clever temptation to discourage doing good and hoping for sanctification, rather than a message from the dead. Consider the source! No prayer is ever wasted, and no amount of care for someone who seems to have little concern for God will start to compare to the care God had for just such a soul. As we know ourselves to be in need of mercy, it is a good habit to believe that others need only mercy and grace to become magnificent saints, even though they died with very little recognizable merit to show for their earthly life. Even if they had no merit and even deserved the millstone around their necks but did have true repentance at the end, it may be that God will glorify himself simply by the extent of the reclamation of such a soul! Why else would God offer the grace of true repentance, except to offer mercy?

 

[PetraG]

The Catholic teaching is that praying for the dead, or those in Purgatory is good. We don’t pray for saints and we don’t pray for those in Hell.

That is probably why the Church has never declared a single specific person to be among the damned.

It makes sense that God would let us know the ones He has chosen as our intercessors in the economy of grace. It also makes sense that God would not teach us to look right or left for other people who aren’t going to make the grade. That isn’t something we ought to presume to judge. We ought to think of everyone we are praying for as the target of God’s grace and reclamation. If any are past hope, it does not harm us to be ignorant of it, but it could harm us to be given sure knowledge of it.

 

[misstherese]

@Seagull, what made you think it’s made up?

That wouldn’t be able to explain the level of knowledge the woman had, not only in theology, but the details of a real person. This was in the 1930’s, when most women had very little education. This was very likely written by her because it was found with her belongings and would have been identified by other sisters as her handwriting.

 

[misstherese]

If God were to allow someone from Hell to appear to you to tell you they were in Hell and to warn you about it, and you knew confidently this was a revelation from God (by discernment of spirits and a good spiritual director) would you still pray for them?

I’m not saying it is acceptable to assume someone is in Hell and to forgo praying for them. The circumstance I’m talking about is slightly different.

 

[nightshade]

Thank you so much for posting this. I read it all this morning and it definitely had an effect on me. Do you have a link to other writings like This?

 

[PetraG]

If God were to allow someone from Hell to appear to you to tell you they were in Hell and to warn you about it, and you knew confidently this was a revelation from God (by discernment of spirits and a good spiritual director) would you still pray for them?

I’m not saying it is acceptable to assume someone is in Hell and to forgo praying for them. The circumstance I’m talking about is slightly different.

That is kind of my point. If God has not already told the Church about a single person who is in Hell but did tell us quite clearly that Hell is a possibility, it stands to reason that this particular information is not to our good…for what grace has God withheld from us? I would in particular not let a scary dream warn me away from prayer.

Consider this passage:
For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, who masquerade as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan masquerades as an angel of light. So it is not strange that his ministers also masquerade as ministers of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds. 2 Cor. 11:13-15

This is a warning to be careful about revelations that claim to be from God. No, I would not listen to any revelation that told me not to pray for the dead. The evil one has too many reasons to give us directions like that. There is no reason to believe that the torments of the damned can be increased by prayers on their behalf, either. I cannot imagine a spiritual director telling me to believe a dream telling me to despair of the soul of someone who had my particular concern.

That wouldn’t be able to explain the level of knowledge the woman had, not only in theology, but the details of a real person. This was in the 1930’s, when most women had very little education. This was very likely written by her because it was found with her belongings and would have been identified by other sisters as her handwriting.

Well, that is if religious sisters actually found this letter. They could not have allowed it to be published with identifying details, lest the family of the deceased be upset by what it implied about their dearly departed. A pious writer could have written the note and attributed it to a deceased sister, too. Who can say?
The religious sisters of the 1930s often belonged to teaching orders; according to my grandmother’s generation, such teaching sisters were not uncommonly experts on detailing the perils of Hell to their students in vivid detail.
According to the letter, the author of the piece worked in an office prior to entering the convent, and her friend found a way to attract the interest of and marry wealth. Besides, Lake Garda was not a destination of the unwashed masses. Both young women would have been from the middle class or upper middle class, and would have had enough education to have known what the letter teaches about Hell.
I don’t think the level of education of the author speaks either for or against the authenticity of the story.

 

[Crocus]

If God were to allow someone from Hell to appear to you to tell you they were in Hell and to warn you about it, and you knew confidently this was a revelation from God (by discernment of spirits and a good spiritual director) would you still pray for them?

I would not presume nor even consider that I could confidently discern such a message as being from God. I think it was St Teresa of Avila who advised to make little of personal revelations, attribute them first to self (or to evil), rather than to God. Not to say we cannot take lessons from such occasions.

Take what is in the dream/vision and use the details as examination of conscience. Pray for persons close to death and for the souls in Purgatory. This is always good and what the Church teaches.

Leave discernment of revelations to the Church proper (accepting that some will receive no further confirmation). It’s not the vision that matters, it’s what we do with it.

 

[Rozellelily]

How do we not know that the dream was not due to the nuns psychosocial beliefs rather than being a spiritual cause?
People’s dreams will be influenced by their beliefs-especially strongly held beliefs-just like those paintings in post 115 were influenced by the Korean painters prior beliefs about hell and what they were exposed to.
The nun clearly already had strong beliefs about certain things which is evidenced by her interactions with her “friend” prior to death.

Nothing is known about the nuns psychological state.
It could even be made up.
I have seen instances where very devout and well meaning Catholics,but who are “delusional” have made things like this up in a misguided belief that it will help save people’s souls or even to fill a void within themselves-ie:it makes them feel important to be thought of as a messenger of Gods truth.
I’m not suggesting that is (or isn’t) the case with this nun,just that we have to be aware that these things do happen.

Also,satan can disguise himself as a messenger of light and deceive via dreams-or at least i though that was the case?

 

[misstherese]

I’m not stating anything as fact; that was a hypothetical question.

No one’s placing private revelation above dogma. But it is good to let private revelation nourish your spiritual life. In that aspect, I would place importance on it, especially if it’s a revelation that has sound teaching and no doctrinal errors.

 

[misstherese]

Yes, some wondered the same of St. Faustina too, if she was mentally well.

 

[misstherese]

Yes! This is a great book with more stories similar to this.

https://www.amazon.com/Dogma-Hell-I.../ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

Here are some excerpts from it: The Dogma Of Hell by Reverend F.X. Schouppe, S.J
edit: or perhaps the whole book; it’s pretty long!

 

[misstherese]

That is kind of my point. If God has not already told the Church about a single person who is in Hell but did tell us quite clearly that Hell is a possibility, it stands to reason that this particular information is not to our good…for what grace has God withheld from us? I would in particular not let a scary dream warn me away from prayer.

If this was an issue, there would not have been an imprimatur. It would most likely not have passed the approval of the Diocese of Treves, Germany, to be published for its use as highly instructive, nor would have Fr. Bernhardin Krempel, C.P., Doctor in Theology, added footnotes demonstrating its absolute concordance with the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

Here are his notes:

Notes:

1. Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, Supplement (New York: Benziger Brothers, Inc., 1948), Q. 98, art. 4—”Therefore, they [the damned] will wish all the good were damned.” [back to text]
2. Ibid., art. 1—The determined will “is in them always evil; and this because they are completely turned away from the last end of a right will…. Hence even though they will some good, they do not will it well so that one be able to call their will good on that account.”[back to text]
3. Ibid., art. 3, ad. 3—”Although not to be is very evil in so far as it removes being, it is very good in so far as it removes unhappiness, which is the greatest if evils, and thus it is preferred not to be.”[back to text]
   4.Ibid., art. 7—”In the damned there will be actual consideration of the things they knew heretofore as matters of sorrow, but not as a cause of pleasure. For they will consider both the evil they have done, and for which they were damned, and the delightful goods they have lost, and on both counts they will suffer torments.”[back to text]
4. Ibid., art. 4—”Even as in the blessed in heaven there will be most perfect charity, so in the damned there will be the most perfect hate.”[back to text]

More of his footnotes can be found here and and can be viewed in light of the text on A Letter From Beyond | The Last Things | ANF Articles

Well, that is if religious sisters actually found this letter. They could not have allowed it to be published with identifying details, lest the family of the deceased be upset by what it implied about their dearly departed. A pious writer could have written the note and attributed it to a deceased sister, too. Who can say?

I’m finding this harder to believe than the actual story. She lived in a convent. Who in the world would do that? Not to mention, the likelihood of that would be low. Living in a convent, taking vows, and living a life married to Jesus comes with responsibilities (and busy ones, who has the time to write when you’re always on the clock?) You are doing it for a reason. Making up a story (and ironically, of all things, about Hell!) would completely contradict that and I see no motive for any of the other sisters to do that. All things are possible, but it just seems unlikely.

 

[PetraG]

You don’t understand. I did NOT imply the nun in the story made up the story. I said that EITHER it was (as the story itself says) a vivid dream she had OR it is a work by a pious writer OTHER than the narrator of the story but in circulation the source was lost. In neither case does anyone have to believe the dream is a literal visitation from one of the damned NOR that there was necessarily any intent to deceive by anyone. The story leaves the possibility open that the events happened but does NOT assert it to be so.
The story is presented as a story that may or may not have happened, then, not a fact. The imprimatur would only say that the story itself does not teach error. As far as I can see, the story’s premise is possible.

 

[misstherese]

I never presented it as indisputable, infallible fact. I am simply presenting another side of the argument.

I also wasn’t insinuating that you thought she made it up. You said some other person could have written it and the only other possible person that would be is one of the other sisters - because she lived in a convent. It could not have been a story in circulation with a lost source because I know the source. It’s from a book entitled “Letter from Beyond” that was originally published in 1953 and has now been translated by Marian Therese Horvat.

 

[PetraG]

I No, you misunderstood; I know you know what book it came from. The story itself, however, does not give enough detail to know the actual nun or her friend…the nun who purportedly left this story among her effects is the source I mean.

I meant if a sister really wrote it, the other sisters would have found it and would be the source. They would of course purge anything identifying from it for common sense reasons. The sister who left it among her things could not have clarified any questions they might have had about whether it was meant as a real incident or a work of instructive fiction or a combination of the two. While my initial reaction was to verify the convent, on a closer look it seems very unlikely that any real convent would allow that kind of paper trail. Calling her a Sr Claire who worked in an office an had a friend named such and so who died in a car accident isn’t enough to go on. (Traffic deaths weren’t that uncommon and heaven knows her name was common.)
That combination of uncertainties makes it highly unlikely that it could ever be verified. That doesn’t mean it could not be put to catechetical use.
I very much doubt a religious sister would stop praying for someone’s soul on account of a dream telling her to give it up. What is the dream is misleading? Continuing to pray for the person would be the safer course.
The story doesn’t ever say the nun did despair of her friend’s salvation does it? I don’t remember it saying that she did so, only that she had this experience in which she was entreated to do so.

 

[misstherese]

Ohh you mean the location details and names? Yeah, I would agree, they probably didn’t want to give out those details and for that reason and because it identifies a person in Hell, it will probably not be approved.

She could have continued praying for her, I suppose. if she did, that’s fine. If she didn’t, that’s her choice.

I guess the main reason I have a tendency to believe in this revelation is because it reminds me so much of the other saint’s revelations where they speak of souls appearing from Purgatory or Hell or other supernatural elements similar to that. I do a lot of reading; I only read books by either saints or other pious Catholics and have come to recognize a certain style of orthodoxy, so much so that I feel I can generally “tell” when something rings true or not. This one I see a similar pattern.

And of course again, if you don’t agree that’s completely fine. I also have this tendency to be defensive, mostly because I want others to see both sides in order to reach a fair conclusion. I hope I didn’t come off as mean. God bless and good night.