A Little Balance, Please!

[fkjuliano]

A five-minute video with an extra large dose of truth and common sense about the Catholic sex abuse scandals:

youtube.com/watch?v=p2y8fBZVeqU

 

[plinko]

Comparing numbers of priests who abused to numbers of teachers who abused doesn’t make their indiscretions any less wrong. There’s no justification for what those men did.

Furthermore, teachers are anybody. There are very intelligent morally-upright teachers and then there are less intelligent, lackadaisical, nihilistic ones. The former of course, would never dream of hurting a kid, but the latter? Maybe, maybe not. However, they’re not held to the same moral standard that priests are. Their lives aren’t defined by doing good for the world and their fellow man. They are teachers, not instruments of God’s word. I’m not trying to turn it around and justify their behavior; all i’m saying is that they are laypeople with no concept of morality or discipline.

How can you balance something that’s unbalanced to start with? Teachers do not equal priests. A higher moral standing calls for more discipline.

 

[LaSalle]

Comparing numbers of priests who abused to numbers of teachers who abused doesn’t make their indiscretions any less wrong. There’s no justification for what those men did.

Furthermore, teachers are anybody. There are very intelligent morally-upright teachers and then there are less intelligent, lackadaisical, nihilistic ones. The former of course, would never dream of hurting a kid, but the latter? Maybe, maybe not. However, they’re not held to the same moral standard that priests are. Their lives aren’t defined by doing good for the world and their fellow man. They are teachers, not instruments of God’s word. I’m not trying to turn it around and justify their behavior; all i’m saying is that they are laypeople with no concept of morality or discipline.

How can you balance something that’s unbalanced to start with? Teachers do not equal priests. A higher moral standing calls for more discipline.

Nobody is justifying what the priests did. They deserve to be incarcerated.

The point of the video, which you seem to have missed, is that because of the unfair press attack against the Church, everyone would automatically trust a public school teacher as opposed to a Catholic Priest to tend their children; this is due to the constant media coverage about the wayward priests. When in reality the public school teacher has a higher chance of being a sex fiend.

The attack is unjustified and skewed and continues to ignore reality.

It obviously worked on you.

 

[fkjuliano]

Comparing numbers of priests who abused to numbers of teachers who abused doesn’t make their indiscretions any less wrong. There’s no justification for what those men did.

Furthermore, teachers are anybody. There are very intelligent morally-upright teachers and then there are less intelligent, lackadaisical, nihilistic ones. The former of course, would never dream of hurting a kid, but the latter? Maybe, maybe not. However, they’re not held to the same moral standard that priests are. Their lives aren’t defined by doing good for the world and their fellow man. They are teachers, not instruments of God’s word. I’m not trying to turn it around and justify their behavior; all i’m saying is that they are laypeople with no concept of morality or discipline.

How can you balance something that’s unbalanced to start with? Teachers do not equal priests. A higher moral standing calls for more discipline.

So teachers have no concept of morality of discipline? If that were the case, the media should be eager to report on the fact, you would think.

There is no excuse for anyone who sexually abuses minors, especially if he or she takes advantage of a position of trust to do so. In my personal opinion, any cleric, teacher, scout leader, etc. who molests children in their charge should either be executed or receive a term of life at hard labor. Either way, they should be removed from society completely and definitively.

However, the video makes the point that the goal of the media in the way they cover this issue is to defame the Catholic Church and weaken her voice, not to safeguard children. I believe pederast priests earn an even hotter place in hell than their public school teacher counterparts, but that is not a practical concern for secular media.

 

[Mark77]

**No abuse of any kind is ever acceptable!

i agree that a priest should be held to a higher moral standard, but abuse by a teacher is still abuse & inflicts the same emotional & physical damage on an innocent person.

i would argue that in most cases in today’s secular society, a teacher has much more access & influence over students with an average of 5 to 40 hours of teaching time each week to directly influence these students thinking & behavior!**

**The real issue here is that tens of thousands of adolescents are abused each year in the US, primarily by family members or teachers. If the real concern is protecting the children, why not focus on the main source of the abuse?

i believe there are 2 huge problems. The current US Media, which is intellectually dishonest, corrupt & biased, & teachers unions (not teachers in general who i admire!). They both stand to gain if the focus is on priests & away from their negligence.**

The point is that there is a huge credibility problem with news media outlets screaming about the priest abuse scandal & calling for the arrest or resignation of the Pope, when the sexual abuse in public schools is estimated by secular studies to be as high as 10%?

In the article “BRAVE NEW SCHOOLS, Report suggests 10% of students abused
Fed study indicates sexual misconduct far worse than priest scandal”
wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37567 a study conducted by Charol Shakeshaft, professor of educational administration at Hofstra University in Hempstead, N.Y.

She says; **“The figures suggest that “the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests,” said Shakeshaft, according to the education magazine.”
**
**From 1950 to 2002 there were an average of 200 abuse claims against priests per year. The study cited estimates 29,000 cases of abuse per year in public schools from 1991 to 2000.

200 vs 29,000??? Both are wrong & must be dealt with, but where should the primary focus & the outrage be???**

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark

 

[plinko]

Nobody is justifying what the priests did. They deserve to be incarcerated.

The point of the video, which you seem to have missed, is that because of the unfair press attack against the Church, everyone would automatically trust a public school teacher as opposed to a Catholic Priest to tend their children; this is due to the constant media coverage about the wayward priests. When in reality the public school teacher has a higher chance of being a sex fiend.

The attack is unjustified and skewed and continues to ignore reality.

It obviously worked on you.

Yup, I’ve been corrupted and brainwashed.

But seriously, imagine you had a 15 year old kid who kept taking oreos from the cupboard even though you’ve given him stern warnings. He’s obviously old enough to know not to binge on oreos, especially before dinner. When confronted, he says “My 3, 4, and 6 year old brothers are doing it too, and there’s more of them, so maybe you should yell at them for awhile instead of me” Does that make his actions any less wrong? I posit no; it makes his actions MORE wrong because his moral compass is more tuned than his little siblings. The fact that there are others doing it doesn’t make his actions less bad. Silly analogy I know, but maybe you can see where I’m coming from?

Furthermore, you don’t think teachers are also singled out? How many stories each year do we hear about Ms. So-and-so shacking up with Student 14-year-old? Many people even have personal anecdotes; I know a girl who was propositioned by her college professor in exchange for raising her grade by a whole letter. It happens all the time, but you’ve only looked at the press on Catholicism because it directly affects you. Chances are, you’re aware of all the teacher stories, but skim over them and forget because they don’t have the impact on your life that Catholic scandal does. It’s called availability bias.

I think the Church needs this bashing to ensure this never happens again. If we can survive this in an amicable way, the church will come out stronger than ever before. In this case though, we need to hang our heads in shame and promise that it will never EVER happen again. What else can we do?

So teachers have no concept of morality of discipline? If that were the case, the media should be eager to report on the fact, you would think.

I never said they have no concept of morality; I said that priests are on a higher plane of morality. There’s a difference. And the media does report on it. See above.

 

[bookgirl32]

Comparing numbers of priests who abused to numbers of teachers who abused doesn’t make their indiscretions any less wrong. There’s no justification for what those men did.

Furthermore, teachers are anybody. There are very intelligent morally-upright teachers and then there are less intelligent, lackadaisical, nihilistic ones. The former of course, would never dream of hurting a kid, but the latter? Maybe, maybe not. However, they’re not held to the same moral standard that priests are. Their lives aren’t defined by doing good for the world and their fellow man. They are teachers, not instruments of God’s word. I’m not trying to turn it around and justify their behavior; all i’m saying is that they are laypeople with no concept of morality or discipline.

How can you balance something that’s unbalanced to start with? Teachers do not equal priests. A higher moral standing calls for more discipline.

Nowhere does the Church officially teach that a priest is held to any higher moral standard than any other human being. Nor does it teach that in becoming a priest, they are somehow “changed” into beings that are more able to do so. Every human being is called to respond to God’s grace with everything they have. No human being (save one) is able to do so perfectly. Yes, the sacrament of Holy Orders does confer grace upon a man which helps them to become what God wants them to become. But it is the same kind of sanctifying grace that one who is not a priest receives in any of the other sacraments. Yes, a priest knows that they will be held to a higher moral standard by other humans (and especially the media), and by all means should strive to keep these standards. That they failed does not make it “worse”, in God’s eyes, than any other mortal sin of anyone else. If they are guilty, they are responsible, and should pay the consequences. But the point is that it is the media, not God or the Church, that is demanding that priests be held to a false higher moral standard than anyone else so that when they fall, the media can then say, “See, they’re that much worse than everybody else, just because they were supposed to be that much better than everybody else.” Something that was never true in the first place.

 

[bookgirl32]

But seriously, imagine you had a 15 year old kid who kept taking oreos from the cupboard even though you’ve given him stern warnings. He’s obviously old enough to know not to binge on oreos, especially before dinner. When confronted, he says “My 3, 4, and 6 year old brothers are doing it too, and there’s more of them, so maybe you should yell at them for awhile instead of me” Does that make his actions any less wrong? I posit no; it makes his actions MORE wrong because his moral compass is more tuned than his little siblings.

First of all, this is not a good analogy. You’re speaking about the difference between a person who has reached the age of reason and those who have not. This is not equal to the difference between a priest and a lay person. The difference between the younger siblings and the older is their ability to understand right and wrong because of objective reasons (age). Two fully grown adults who have developed normally, although one may have chosen to have more of an education in spiritual matters than the other, are not analogous to a child and an adult. Any spiritual maturation compared between the two would be, in human eyes at least, completely subjective and not measurable.

As far as actions being “more” wrong than others when in the context of two comparitve adults, the only moral distinction would be between that of venial sin and mortal sin. Two adults, one a teacher and one a priest, who have committed the mortal sin of child abuse, have both committed the mortal sin of child abuse and are both equally in a state of sin that would result, should they die before they either go to confession or have perfect contrition, in eternal damnation.

The fact that there are others doing it doesn’t make his actions less bad.

Of course not, but for the same reasons as above. Being a priest means that all his actiona are more bad than any other human’s, but could in no way make them less bad in and of themselves. Do you see any logic in that statement?

Furthermore, you don’t think teachers are also singled out? How many stories each year do we hear about Ms. So-and-so shacking up with Student 14-year-old? Many people even have personal anecdotes; I know a girl who was propositioned by her college professor in exchange for raising her grade by a whole letter. It happens all the time, but you’ve only looked at the press on Catholicism because it directly affects you. Chances are, you’re aware of all the teacher stories, but skim over them and forget because they don’t have the impact on your life that Catholic scandal does. It’s called availability bias.

Yes, an “availability bias” that’s created by the media. You’re aware of the priests b/c every single case is loudly proclaimed by the media. Every single case of teachers is not. That’s where we are faulting the media, not where we are relieving priests OR teachers of any faults should they be convicted of the actual crime.

I think the Church needs this bashing to ensure this never happens again.

The Church, as in the institution started by Jesus on earth and it’s doctrine, dogmas, teachings, etc, will be fine, as the gates of hell cannot prevail agains it. Individual human beings, however, don’t have this assurance because God never gave it to them. The head of the Church is Jesus Himself, and the head cannot be seperated from the body. You really believe Jesus needs a bashing? I don’t think you probably do, I think you probably are just misunderstanding the difference between “The Church” and individual, fallible human beings.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending anyone who is guilty of these crimes, I’m not trying to say it’s not that bad. But when we get angry with the media it is because the goal of the media is not to protect these children, nor is it to helpfully push the people responsible for these things within the Church for personal reform. The goal of the media is not positive.

I never said they have no concept of morality; I said that priests are on a higher plane of morality. There’s a difference.

What does that even mean? This is exactly my point. How exactly, from the Church’s official point of view (meaning from official doctrine and teaching of the Church) are priests “on a higher plane”? And what is a “higher plane of morality” as defined by the Church and not you?

 

[LaSalle]

Yup, I’ve been corrupted and brainwashed.

But seriously, imagine you had a 15 year old kid who kept taking oreos from the cupboard even though you’ve given him stern warnings. He’s obviously old enough to know not to binge on oreos, especially before dinner. When confronted, he says “My 3, 4, and 6 year old brothers are doing it too, and there’s more of them, so maybe you should yell at them for awhile instead of me” Does that make his actions any less wrong? I posit no; it makes his actions MORE wrong because his moral compass is more tuned than his little siblings. The fact that there are others doing it doesn’t make his actions less bad. Silly analogy I know, but maybe you can see where I’m coming from?

Furthermore, you don’t think teachers are also singled out? How many stories each year do we hear about Ms. So-and-so shacking up with Student 14-year-old? Many people even have personal anecdotes; I know a girl who was propositioned by her college professor in exchange for raising her grade by a whole letter. It happens all the time, but you’ve only looked at the press on Catholicism because it directly affects you. Chances are, you’re aware of all the teacher stories, but skim over them and forget because they don’t have the impact on your life that Catholic scandal does. It’s called availability bias.

I think the Church needs this bashing to ensure this never happens again. If we can survive this in an amicable way, the church will come out stronger than ever before. In this case though, we need to hang our heads in shame and promise that it will never EVER happen again. What else can we do?

It’s not about who is more or less wrong … those who committed those acts are ALL wrong …

 

[Ignatius]

Comparing numbers of priests who abused to numbers of teachers who abused doesn’t make their indiscretions any less wrong. There’s no justification for what those men did…

We clearly must continue to work on this until there are no more occurrences.

That being said, for every case AP and the New York times dig up there were 100 times the number of cases of public school teacher abuse covered up by the teachers unions. Why didn’t these receive equal coverage?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

And I still can’t understand why it is supposedly so much worse for a priest to abuse than for a father to abuse his child. The incidences of men raping and abusing their children is much higher (that is, more likely) than the abuse of a priest on a child–so why aren’t we working to get money, and counseling, and media ‘coverage’, and words of support for the victims of ‘non-priests’?

I mean, it’s not as though there was only enough ‘ink’ in the world to cover one ‘abuse’ incident, and the priest abuse is ‘more important’ than abuse of children by parents/family, right?

It’s not as though a newspaper couldn’t carry stories about ‘priest abuse’ AND abuse by parents and teachers etc., right?

It’s not as though abuse of a child only merits news coverage, and money settlements, and counseling, and all that, if the abuser is a Catholic priest. . .and that none of these things apply if the abuser is anybody else. right?

And it’s not as though by giving other situations I’m trying to ‘lessen’ the priest abuse.

Far from it. I’m trying to BROADEN the scope to encompass the 98% or so of victims of abuse who weren’t molested by CATHOLIC PRIESTS.

Because if abuse is the main concern, we should be concerned about ANYBODY who abuses. . .priests, parents, clergy, teachers, ANYBODY.

If the ABUSE is the main concern we should be going after every ABUSER no matter who or ‘what’ he (or she) is. . .

So what does it seem as though the media etc. is trying to do? Are they going after child abuse and EVERY person who abuses. . .or are they ignoring all but ONE segment of the population?

Are they trying to find out the reasons why an individual abuses, or are they accusing (and in a false way) only ONE segment of the population?

Are they focusing on what is happening now, whether it is in a home, or a school, or a nonCatholic church. . .or are they only looking at ONE segment of the population, and going back many years in doing so?

I’m all for dealing with child abuse. No matter who the abuser is. So when I see the media paying the very same attention (and going back for decades and bringing up cases in the same frequency and virulency) on ALL the segments of the population, I’ll know that this is all about STOPPING CHILD ABUSE EVERYWHERE and not about something else MASQUERADING or PRETENDING to be about stopping abuse, especially when it is only targeting ONE segment of the population. . .