A little bit of help please

[Mystic_Faith]

Dear brothers in Christ.

I read these forums all the time, though due to my ignorance, I do not post often. There are clearly many here, who are very well informed, and wish to aid people in thier search for better understanding. I thank you all in advance for your help.

I am a practicing Roman Catholic, though I have been drawn for quite some time to, for lack of a better description, a “more tradition” mass, and practice of my faith. I have been researching as much as possible on the different types of Catholicism, and Orthodox deliniations. I have looked over as many threads as possible on this wonderfull forum, but I am afraid that I have just confused myself a bit… I recently had the privilage of meeting with a priest at local Orthodox church which I found locally. I absolutely LOVED the icons, and the reverence I felt immediately when he was showing me around the church. It is of the Antiochian group. He expained to me some of the basic differences. And that most importantly, his Orthodox church is not in communion with Rome.

My main question is this…I can easily accept everything I have learned thus far, and I think I have a basic understanding on why the bigsplit happened long ago. My issue is this. I am completely stuck on priests being able to be married. This is very difficult for me. Arent there some “more traditional catholics” that believe in celebecy for thier priests besides "Roman Catholics?

I am considering a change for my family to a more traditional practice. This is very important to me as my wife and I, at the age of 40, have recently been blessed with the birth of our 3rd child. It is close to time for her babtism, and I would like to have a concrete understanding of the Eastern rites, and Orthodoxy, “if there is a difference” so I can make an educated decission on where to continue my family’s church involvement.

Im sure that this question is not posed in the most coherent way possible, for that I apologize in advance.

I sincerely thank all those that choose to spend time answering this request for a better understanding.

Bless you all.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Dear brothers in Christ.

I read these forums all the time, though due to my ignorance, I do not post often. There are clearly many here, who are very well informed, and wish to aid people in thier search for better understanding. I thank you all in advance for your help.

I am a practicing Roman Catholic, though I have been drawn for quite some time to, for lack of a better description, a “more tradition” mass, and practice of my faith. I have been researching as much as possible on the different types of Catholicism, and Orthodox deliniations. I have looked over as many threads as possible on this wonderfull forum, but I am afraid that I have just confused myself a bit… I recently had the privilage of meeting with a priest at local Orthodox church which I found locally. I absolutely LOVED the icons, and the reverence I felt immediately when he was showing me around the church. It is of the Antiochian group. He expained to me some of the basic differences. And that most importantly, his Orthodox church is not in communion with Rome.

My main question is this…I can easily accept everything I have learned thus far, and I think I have a basic understanding on why the bigsplit happened long ago. My issue is this. I am completely stuck on priests being able to be married. This is very difficult for me. Arent there some “more traditional catholics” that believe in celebecy for thier priests besides "Roman Catholics?

I am considering a change for my family to a more traditional practice. This is very important to me as my wife and I, at the age of 40, have recently been blessed with the birth of our 3rd child. It is close to time for her babtism, and I would like to have a concrete understanding of the Eastern rites, and Orthodoxy, “if there is a difference” so I can make an educated decission on where to continue my family’s church involvement.

Im sure that this question is not posed in the most coherent way possible, for that I apologize in advance.

I sincerely thank all those that choose to spend time answering this request for a better understanding.

Bless you all.

This is a pretty difficult question to answer, moreso that this Forum has rules that we are not to tell someone to leave Catholicism. But I myself am a firm believer that if the truth is indeed in Catholicism, and one is sincere in searching for the truth, then one should be led to Catholicism regardless of how much push anyone gives to that person to go somewhere else.

My advice as always is to pray a lot. Pray, pray, pray. Fast on some days and pray. Do your due diligence. Read on books both about Catholicism and Orthodoxy, solidify what you really believe about. Talk to clergy from both sides. I did this myself. I spoke to an Orthodox priest, but I also spoke to a Catholic priest and also to my own bishop.

I will tell you know what my bishop told me. You know what is so wonderful about your situation? In this secular world of ours, how many people will wake up in the morning and not even think about God? How many people will go through a Sunday and not even bother to be inside a church, any church, Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, whatever. Yet here you are thinking hard about how you can be closer to God. This is a special time where the Holy Spirit is at work. You have a desire to be closer to God. God will not leave you on your own, pray and ask. God will answer.

I will not sway you to choose one over the other. I believe both options to be valid and it is God’s own will where He chooses where he needs each one of us to be. The best really is to talk with the right people (the clergy from the Churches you are considering) and go and experience Liturgy and see the type of community you potentially will be joining.

 

[Christine85]

Why don’t you just attend a Latin Catholic Church?

 

[englishredrose]

Dear brothers in Christ.

I read these forums all the time, though due to my ignorance, I do not post often. There are clearly many here, who are very well informed, and wish to aid people in thier search for better understanding. I thank you all in advance for your help.

I am a practicing Roman Catholic, though I have been drawn for quite some time to, for lack of a better description, a “more tradition” mass, and practice of my faith. I have been researching as much as possible on the different types of Catholicism, and Orthodox deliniations. I have looked over as many threads as possible on this wonderfull forum, but I am afraid that I have just confused myself a bit… I recently had the privilage of meeting with a priest at local Orthodox church which I found locally. I absolutely LOVED the icons, and the reverence I felt immediately when he was showing me around the church. It is of the Antiochian group. He expained to me some of the basic differences. And that most importantly, his Orthodox church is not in communion with Rome.

My main question is this…I can easily accept everything I have learned thus far, and I think I have a basic understanding on why the bigsplit happened long ago. My issue is this. I am completely stuck on priests being able to be married. This is very difficult for me. Arent there some “more traditional catholics” that believe in celebecy for thier priests besides "Roman Catholics?

I am considering a change for my family to a more traditional practice. This is very important to me as my wife and I, at the age of 40, have recently been blessed with the birth of our 3rd child. It is close to time for her babtism, and I would like to have a concrete understanding of the Eastern rites, and Orthodoxy, “if there is a difference” so I can make an educated decission on where to continue my family’s church involvement.

Im sure that this question is not posed in the most coherent way possible, for that I apologize in advance.

I sincerely thank all those that choose to spend time answering this request for a better understanding.

Bless you all.

Just a thought and this is meant in all politeness and not rude

Change by all means but why drag your family through changing? They may wish to stay at the Church you are at. It seems unfair to simply uproot them because you want to change and do so annoys me when people drag their kids and hubby or wife to church because the whole family is expected to go for that one peson and they just get used to that place when the originator either stops or go elsewhere and the hubby/wife and kids are expected to stop too. So selfish I think that one person expects the whole family to be behind them in whatever decision. Talk about it here by all means. But I think you need to share all with your family too. They mayn’t wish to swap especially if they are involved in groups along side the church. Fine, you go else where but don’t drag them just because you want a change. Family is about partnership and communication. You family been made to go through the Catholic rules then suddenly (in their eyes) you wanna swap and no longer they have to do xyz and you want another church. It don’t matter if you even swap between Roman Catholic buildings you are uprooting a social network your family has built up to get by. You will have no idea if any of the family privately communicates with that priest (though a good priest will keep that communication route open) about things and they may feel torn about leaving that church just because you hit 40’ and think it time to change or something? Being 40 has little to do with it because am still going to same church since I was about 15/16 and now 44 and have no desire to move per se and am happy with the journey to where I am and it not always been picnic in the park.

But Please, Please, most importantly properly discuss this with your family if you are expecting them to move with you that is all I ask Your wife may not wish for the new baby to be baptised elsewhere even. Or do they just go along with whatever to keep you happy? Pray, and openly talk to your current priest about your thoughts on why you thinking of moving church. They can be amazingly open at such times and sincerly listen. Its wonderful when someone listens and gives us that space that we need. The time I needed the priest to listen as the result of the conversation could have meant I walk completely away from faith, I was nervous because didn’t want to place so much need on the talk, but gently, he literally revived/saved a faith he kept me and he had a bad cold that day, I know it was bad cold because I had it the week before:blush:. I wasn’t thinking about swapping but stopping altogether. Some priests are really good listeners if we allow ourselves to be open and trust and let ourselves be guided.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

There is great beauty in Eastern Christianity. That is true. However, beware of anything not in communion with the Catholic Church. Anyone who tells you that they are somehow/anyhow better off in schism with the one Church that Christ created is simply wrong! Always remember that.

 

[Aramis]

Married clergy are the tradition of the early church. Right up through bishops.

Married men were ordained to the priesthood in the Roman church right through to about 1200AD.

But note that Bishops, generally, were drawn from the monastics, so most of them were celibate as monastics. By 600, married men becoming bishops put their wives into monasteries. And, rarely, the Christian East has had this continue into at least the mid 19th century. But, also, it is that a bishop’s tasks basically wed him to the diocese… he has no time to be husband.

Rome’s had a few widower priests over the centuries, too…

The rule has been, always: A married man may receive ordination, but an ordained one may not receive marriage.

Marriage does not make one invalid matter for ordination to the clerical state. Illicit for ordination to the episcopate, but not invalid.

And, for what it’s worth, only two of the 23 Sui Iuris Churches (Counting the Roman) don’t have married priests. IIRC, that’s the Georgian GCC and the Maronite Church. The Georgians don’t even have their own priests…

 

[malphono]

And, for what it’s worth, only two of the 23 Sui Iuris Churches (Counting the Roman) don’t have married priests. IIRC, that’s the Georgian GCC and the Maronite Church. The Georgians don’t even have their own priests…

While I’ve no idea about the almost-moribund Georgian CC, I can say that the Maronites most certainly do still have married clergy in the Patriarchal Territories. That said, I believe the Syro-Malabars do not have a tradition of married clergy. I’m not sure about the custom among the Syro-Malankara.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

I am a practicing Roman Catholic, though I have been drawn for quite some time to, for lack of a better description, a “more tradition” mass, and practice of my faith.

The problem may be that you do not understand what it means to be Catholic and what the point of going to mass is all about. I would suggest you sit back and listen to this short talk by Archbishop Sheen.

 

[Mystic_Faith]

Thanks to everyone who is participating in this thread.

I would like to point out that, in no way is this some sort of “mid life crisis” as someone may have considered it to be. And I am in no rush to uproot my family on a whim to a new church home. And I believe I understand my Roman Catholic faith quite well. Though, there is always more to learn. Excuse me if the tone of that staement is harsh.

I should probably make myself more clear, and avoid anything extraneous.

Are there any other traditional Rites besides “Roman” that observe celebicy for priests, that are in communion with Rome?

Blessings to all.

 

[yawsep1569]

That said, I believe the Syro-Malabars do not have a tradition of married clergy.

The sad thing is that most people within my church believe this to be true (it isn’t). Of course, nobody particularly cares since the Syro-malabar Church is not exactly lacking in vocations. However, if we were raised to a patriarchate, it might be a different story…

If you are looking for a more "traditional mass’, is it because you are dissatisfied with the Novus Ordo? Have you attended the Tridentine Mass? Find a FSSP mass/house near you, I hear they are really great.

 

[englishredrose]

Thanks to everyone who is participating in this thread.

I would like to point out that, in no way is this some sort of “mid life crisis” as someone may have considered it to be. And I am in no rush to uproot my family on a whim to a new church home. And I believe I understand my Roman Catholic faith quite well. Though, there is always more to learn. Excuse me if the tone of that staement is harsh.

I should probably make myself more clear, and avoid anything extraneous.

Are there any other traditional Rites besides “Roman” that observe celebicy for priests, that are in communion with Rome?

Blessings to all.

Actually try the Benedictine Monestaries and if you have one near by or within range then they offer regular Mass every day which can attend etc and all the Monks are Celebate quite naturally and I believe that some of the Monestaries will be in with Rome because some are indeed Roman Catholic. You have your reasons as to why celebicy of priests is important for you, when you are married yourself… (sorry)

Sorry for the assumption about midlife crises. Just wanted you to think about that idea in that you are the one who mentioned your age and why its important to do so now. Along with the Baptism of the third child of which I do think its extremely important you discuss it with your wife especially if she doesn’t know you are having alternative thoughts and have this desire for the child. She may well have other desires for the child and its more important to discuss rather than just assume she will fall in with you per se.
Its within that age etc… also I would still very much like it that you discuss it with your family if you are expecting your wife and even the two small children so they can follow you in your journey properly. Its only fair to at least share your thoughts and ambitions with your wife

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Are there any other traditional Rites besides “Roman” that observe celebicy for priests, that are in communion with Rome?

Why is a celibate priesthood so important to you?

To answer your question, beyond the responses already given the Byzantine Catholic Church in America, for all intents and purposes, has a celibate priesthood here in the U.S. There are a few married priests from the old country, and one who was ordained at a mature age. But, having grown up in a parish (rare for its day) with a married priest, I would tell you that there are distinct advantages beyond what you might otherwise imagine to the contrary.

 

[malphono]

The sad thing is that most people within my church believe this to be true (it isn’t). Of course, nobody particularly cares since the Syro-malabar Church is not exactly lacking in vocations. However, if we were raised to a patriarchate, it might be a different story…

It would seem logical that the tradition of a married priesthood was prior to the arrival of the Portuguese and the famous Synod of Diamper (in 1599, I think). Assuming that’s true, I wonder if there was much/any resistance to the adoption of the “Roman model” of required celibacy?

 

[theistgal]

Actually try the Benedictine Monestaries and if you have one near by or within range then they offer regular Mass every day which can attend etc and all the Monks are Celebate quite naturally and I believe that some of the Monestaries will be in with Rome because some are indeed Roman Catholic.

? I’ve never heard of a Benedictine monastery that wasn’t in union with Rome - since could you clarify, please?

 

[Aramis]

? I’ve never heard of a Benedictine monastery that wasn’t in union with Rome - since could you clarify, please?

There are a couple of Benedictine monasteries affiliated with the Old Catholic movement.
osjb.info/index_files/OCB.htm is one of them.

And note that “Old Catholic” in this context does mean “Not in communion with Rome”…

 

[The_Idiot]

In the UK - where Englishredrose is based there are Anglican Benedictines

e.g.altonabbey.org.uk

 

[englishredrose]

In the UK - where Englishredrose is based there are Anglican Benedictines

e.g.altonabbey.org.uk

Hmm one in West Yorkshire near a place called Mirfield

 

[The_Idiot]

There are a couple of Benedictine monasteries affiliated with the Old Catholic movement.
osjb.info/index_files/OCB.htm is one of them.

And note that “Old Catholic” in this context does mean “Not in communion with Rome”…

OH MY - what an interesting link - Bishop Grafton, Bishop Tichy and Bishop Brothers all linked together .

Oh very much NOT in Communion with Rome

 

[englishredrose]

? I’ve never heard of a Benedictine monastery that wasn’t in union with Rome - since could you clarify, please?

Im not Roman Catholic but joined in throughly with all the services when I was there so am guessing its Anglican rather than Roman Catholic and my priest is Anglican and is an Oblate at another Monestary in England and thats what I kind of mean I think by not being in Union with Rome. It all depends whether how one describes Union with Rome I guess? Does that make it clearer. Sorry for not responding before

 

[theistgal]

Im not Roman Catholic but joined in throughly with all the services when I was there so am guessing its Anglican rather than Roman Catholic and my priest is Anglican and is an Oblate at another Monestary in England and thats what I kind of mean I think by not being in Union with Rome. It all depends whether how one describes Union with Rome I guess? Does that make it clearer. Sorry for not responding before

Yes - I guess what I meant was, since this is in the Eastern Catholicism thread, are there Benedictine Monasteries that are not in the Roman (i.e. Western) tradition?