a little confused

[Monica4316]

Hi

I’m a convert from Eastern Orthodoxy… which makes me an Eastern Catholic, but since there’s no Eastern Catholic parish around me, I attend a Latin rite parish. I have a bit of a problem… I think I posted about this before but I’m so sorry I can’t seem to find the thread!! The problem is, the way I practice my faith is very ‘Western’, or ‘Roman Catholic’. Don’t get me wrong, I love the Eastern liturgies and prayers and spirituality… I have some icons in my room… but I find it helpful to just focus on one right, and since I attend a Latin rite parish, that influences my choice of devotions, etc. (for example: Rosary, Adoration, etc.)

I keep on meaning to ask… as an Eastern Catholic, is there something I have to do to be in good standing with the Church? Do I have to keep the Eastern fasts? are there days of obligation? I keep all the days of obligation according to the Western calendar… I go to Mass every Sunday… but am I supposed to do more because I’m also Eastern? do I sin if I don’t?

If this is the case… I might have to switch to the Latin rite or find an Eastern rite parish and be fully Eastern. Because I feel like I’ll just get overwhelmed with it all…trying to do the Eastern AND Latin devotions, fasts, etc… I’m worried I’ll be doing many things but nothing well, nothing thoroughly.

Do you have any advice on what I could do?
what ‘obligations’ do I have as an Eastern Catholic?

Again, I love the East as much as the West, I’m just trying to figure out my place in the Church.

God bless

 

[Eucharisted]

I keep all the days of obligation according to the Western calendar… I go to Mass every Sunday…

Remember the five precepts of the Church, and if you are doing that, than give praise to God, for He is letting you live by His Most Holy Will. And since you are a member of a Latin rite church, you are now a Latin rite Catholic. But every Catholic is free to change his church or rite so long as he is still in communion with Christ through His Vicar the Pope.

 

[Aramis]

And since you are a member of a Latin rite church, you are now a Latin rite Catholic.

Canon law says otherwise.

One has to actually request change of enrollment. Going from East to West, one has to apply to the two bishops, and then Rome has to approve.

The obligations differ by particular church sui iuris to which one is enrolled.

In general, tho’ it’s keeping the traditional fasts, attending liturgy on sundays and holy days of obligation of the church of enrollment. Plus the mandatory confession discipline of the church of enrollment, if any.

In practical terms, one can also simply request dispensation to practice as a latin from the relevant eastern bishop, but if one does not intend to return to eastern praxis, it’s better (in the long run) to make the canonical transfer.

 

[Monica4316]

Canon law says otherwise.

One has to actually request change of enrollment. Going from East to West, one has to apply to the two bishops, and then Rome has to approve.

wow…does this take a long time, do you know?

The obligations differ by particular church sui iuris to which one is enrolled.

In general, tho’ it’s keeping the traditional fasts, attending liturgy on sundays and holy days of obligation of the church of enrollment. Plus the mandatory confession discipline of the church of enrollment, if any.

I can’t attend the church of enrollment cause I dont live around any Eastern Catholic parishes… and I don’t know what the fasts are hmm maybe it would be best for me to switch. I’ll speak to a priest about this.

In practical terms, one can also simply request dispensation to practice as a latin from the relevant eastern bishop, but if one does not intend to return to eastern praxis, it’s better (in the long run) to make the canonical transfer.

I see… thanks!

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

if you followed the Byzantine rite, then you would have 4 fasts per year. WAY more than the Latins…

Phillip’s Fast starts Nov 15 I believe…you are bound to the laws of your particular church…if you want to become Latin then you should transfer…BTW…I don’t think that “sunday obligation” is something the Eastern Churches are subjected to…I could be wrong though. maybe it’s just the mortal sin aspect of it…someone please correct me if I’m wrong, I’m still learning!

 

[Monica4316]

thanks!

when I was EO I was Russian Orthodox…

does anyone know what Catholic rite corresponds to this?

I want to find out and hopefully follow the fasts etc for now… but I do think I’ll switch to Roman Catholicism cause it’s overwhelming trying to follow two rites at once.

 

[SyroMalankara]

The Catholic counterpart to Russian Orthodox is Russian Catholic…

Before switching though - if you can give us a general idea of your location, perhaps we could locate an Eastern parish for you?

It isn’t necessary for you to formally switch Church enrollment to practice as a Latin, the Church does not try to make you do the impossible.

 

[Monica4316]

The Catholic counterpart to Russian Orthodox is Russian Catholic…

oh oki… there are very few Russian Catholic churches out there I think… (and mostly they’re in Russia…haha)

Before switching though - if you can give us a general idea of your location, perhaps we could locate an Eastern parish for you?

thanks, well I looked them up there is one but it’s still pretty far. I don’t have a car so my transportation is really limited… I usually just go to a nearby parish these days.

It isn’t necessary for you to formally switch Church enrollment to practice as a Latin, the Church does not try to make you do the impossible.

the thing is, I really like the whole “Western” approach too, the Saints, the spirituality, devotions, etc… that’s how I came to the Church and it feels closer to me, even though I was Orthodox before. But if I ever get the chance to attend an Eastern Catholic parish for Divine Liturgy, I would! And I’m very glad I can receive Communion in any Catholic church of whatever rite

but it seems that because I’m enrolled in an Eastern rite church, I need to follow their fasts, days of obligation, etc, which are different cause the calendar is different… and i’m just worried that this would get overwhelming cause I’d have to be both Eastern and Latin in a way.

 

[agiosotheos]

if you followed the Byzantine rite, then you would have 4 fasts per year. WAY more than the Latins…

But also the principal of the fast is greater. From what I understand, Roman rite fasting involves only fasting from meat and poultry, whereas the Byzantine fast involves fasting from meat, poultry, fish, eggs, dairy, wine, and oil.

There are four seasonal fasts, yes: Advent, Lent, Apostles’, and Dormition. Not all of these are quite as long as Lent, however. On top of this, every Wednesday and Friday is a fast, and there are various particular day long fasts sprinkled throughout the calendar, such as the Beheading of John the Baptist and the Exaltation of the Holy Cross. And then the Eucharistic fast involves no eating from about 10 hours before taking Communion.

 

[agiosotheos]

thanks!

when I was EO I was Russian Orthodox…

does anyone know what Catholic rite corresponds to this?

I want to find out and hopefully follow the fasts etc for now… but I do think I’ll switch to Roman Catholicism cause it’s overwhelming trying to follow two rites at once.

There is a (very small) Russian Catholic Church, which is derived from the Russian Orthodox Church.

But all of the Byzantine rite churches, such as the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church and the Melkite Greek Catholic Church, correspond liturgically to it. You’re more likely to find a Byzantine rite presence near you if you look into these other churches as well.

This Wikipedia article lists all of the Byzantine rite Eastern Catholic churches:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_rite#Greek-Catholic_Churches

 

[Monica4316]

Does anyone know about the days of obligation?

 

[agiosotheos]

Does anyone know about the days of obligation?

The expectation of a person to go to liturgy and partake of Communion is more of an issue of our understanding of what Man spiritually requires for His salvation than it is an issue of canon law (at least in the EOC).

However, come to think of it, there is canon that establishes that if a person misses Divine Liturgy more than 3 weeks in a row without a necessity established with his spiritual father that he is considered excommunicated.

 

[Aramis]

thanks!

when I was EO I was Russian Orthodox…

does anyone know what Catholic rite corresponds to this?

I want to find out and hopefully follow the fasts etc for now… but I do think I’ll switch to Roman Catholicism cause it’s overwhelming trying to follow two rites at once.

You follow the Russian Orthodox Calendar, or if attending a byzantine parish, whatever byantine church you attend. That’s what the Russian Catholic parishes do. Tho’ you could reasonably adopt new calendar dates. Obligatory feasts: Nativity, Pascha, Epiphany, Ascension, Theophany, Annunciation, Dormition. (There’s one more, and I forget which.) St Phillips Fast (starts sunday for new calendar), Great Fast (starts monday before Ash Wednesday), Dormition Fast (2 weeks before Dormition), and Apostle’s fast (follows the end of the Paschal Season, 2 weeks, IIRC). No matter what, confession once in great fast, and once in St. Philips Fast. You mu be communed at least once a year, preferably during the Paschal season.

You, having been Russian Orthodox, have no EC bishop; the dispensation for latin praxis comes from the local ordinary (your Roman Bishop!)… and you need to apply in writing for canonical transfer to the Latin Church to your Latin Bishop. He will almost certainly grant the dispensation to latin praxis; he might not sign off on the transfer unless you have children or are married to a latin. (If you marry a Latin, you have a canonical right to adopt his Church of Enrollment under canon law, and may revert after his passing; any children have the canonical right to revert when adults.

 

[agiosotheos]

Monica, have you been, in some way, officially received into the Catholic Church?

 

[Monica4316]

You follow the Russian Orthodox Calendar, or if attending a byzantine parish, whatever byantine church you attend. That’s what the Russian Catholic parishes do. Tho’ you could reasonably adopt new calendar dates. Obligatory feasts: Nativity, Pascha, Epiphany, Ascension, Theophany, Annunciation, Dormition. (There’s one more, and I forget which.) St Phillips Fast (starts sunday for new calendar), Great Fast (starts monday before Ash Wednesday), Dormition Fast (2 weeks before Dormition), and Apostle’s fast (follows the end of the Paschal Season, 2 weeks, IIRC). No matter what, confession once in great fast, and once in St. Philips Fast. You mu be communed at least once a year, preferably during the Paschal season.

You, having been Russian Orthodox, have no EC bishop; the dispensation for latin praxis comes from the local ordinary (your Roman Bishop!)… and you need to apply in writing for canonical transfer to the Latin Church to your Latin Bishop. He will almost certainly grant the dispensation to latin praxis; he might not sign off on the transfer unless you have children or are married to a latin. (If you marry a Latin, you have a canonical right to adopt his Church of Enrollment under canon law, and may revert after his passing; any children have the canonical right to revert when adults.

thanks for the information!

well for the days of obligation, do I have to go to an Eastern parish for that? or can I just go to Mass in my regular parish on those days?

I don’t think I’m able to keep the days of obligation due to transportation reasons… there’s just a lot getting in the way. I think I’d have to get the dispensation…

 

[Monica4316]

Monica, have you been, in some way, officially received into the Catholic Church?

yes… I became Catholic on Easter at a Latin rite parish - cause I didn’t have the opportunity to convert in an Eastern parish. Does this still mean I’m Eastern Catholic?

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

thanks for the information!

well for the days of obligation, do I have to go to an Eastern parish for that? or can I just go to Mass in my regular parish on those days?

I don’t think I’m able to keep the days of obligation due to transportation reasons… there’s just a lot getting in the way. I think I’d have to get the dispensation…

i’m pretty certain you can fulfill your obligation at any Catholic Church. Most Latin Churches in the US though will celebrate the Feast of the Ascension on the following Sunday though…not on the Thursday that is should be celebrated.

 

[Aramis]

thanks for the information!

well for the days of obligation, do I have to go to an Eastern parish for that? or can I just go to Mass in my regular parish on those days?

I don’t think I’m able to keep the days of obligation due to transportation reasons… there’s just a lot getting in the way. I think I’d have to get the dispensation…

Any catholic divine worship service will do. Even vespers the night before will meet the obligation for many Byzantines, tho’ I’m not positive the Russian Catholics and Russian Orthodox hold to that.

The thing that will make the difference is having to go on Jan 6 instead of Jan 1, and the fasts.

 

[Nine_Two]

Any catholic divine worship service will do. Even vespers the night before will meet the obligation for many Byzantines, tho’ I’m not positive the Russian Catholics and Russian Orthodox hold to that.

Orthodox don’t consider Great Vespers a replacement for the Divine Liturgy, merely a preparation for it.

 

[Hesychios]

Orthodox don’t consider Great Vespers a replacement for the Divine Liturgy, merely a preparation for it.

That’s right.

It is in the CCEO that a Vespers can satisfy a Sunday “obligation” (apparently in any of the EC particular churches), but I am not sure why. The CCEO was crafted as a “one size fits all” code of Canons for the Eastern Catholic churches, so there is apparently some melding of traditions going on. Still, I do not know of any EO nor OO church which does this. If anyone else knows which one I would be interested to see.

It is possible that the CCEO came out of the Vatican with this little bit to correspond with the anticipated Mass in the Latin rite, but that does not make much sense.