a little confused

[5Loaves]

Thank you!

You’re welcome. Sorry to be slow responding. I try to not get on line on Sundays. It looks like other folks have covered the bases with you since then.

5Loaves, I don’t live near any Eastern rite parishes - I checked - nor near any Orthodox churches. All the Orthodox Christians I know have to go to other towns/cities to attend church. I’d be interested in visiting an Eastern rite parish but I don’t know how, because there are problems with transportation.

I feel incredibly blessed that it’s only an hour to get to my parish, and also to the wonderful little Russian Orthodox parish for when we don’t meet at my parish. Also, within an hour’s drive there are many other Orthodox options, but I’m very at home with the one I connected with first, by referral from the monks at Holy Resurrection Monastery whose YouTube interviews I suggested to you earlier

I just wanted to check that I’m understanding this correctly…
so what you’re saying is that when I became Catholic, I became a Russian Catholic.

Yes. Just to add to what others have already said, my canon law teacher, a canon lawyer himself, said that the failure of your Latin parish to properly note/enrolled you as a Russian Catholic would not change the fact that you are automatically one. Sadly our Latin church priests are not really very familiar, or at all familiar with this stuff.

But since there is no Russian Catholic church or bishop in my area, I can follow the fasts and days of obligation of the Latin rite. But I’m still Russian Catholic?

Yes. Because you do not have access to a Church of your patrimony you can choose to follow the Latin tradition. The canon was given earlier on that. It’s preferable to maintain one’s Church’s feasts (meaning you would follow the Russian). But in reality from your statements you didn’t grow up active in an Orthodox parish so you don’t have a background in following the feasts. And it is always recommended that one have a spiritual father for direction in the whole process of fasting. The meaning of these in the East is different than in the West. It isn’t about an obligation. It’s about the process, the path. When someone has lived that life and then is cut off from their community they will have the history, the memory, the “tools” of those years to assist them. You have indicated that you don’t have those. Without an Eastern spiritual father to help guide you, it makes sense for you to follow the calendar of your current spiritual home.

Im confused about the word “enrolled”… does it refer to becoming Catholic? (in which case I’d probably be Roman Catholic, since I ‘enrolled’ in a Latin rite parish, not a sui iuris church - because I couldn’t.) Or, does it refer to me being placed in the Eastern rite irregardless of where I became Catholic?

Yes, Aramis gave you a good description of that.

There is a whole history as to why there is an active interest in keeping Eastern Christians Eastern, especially since the Second Vatican Council and with the Holy Fathers since then. Have you read His Holiness John Paul II’s Apostolic Letter Orientale Lumen?

wow…

LOL.

It is confusing. But when the dust settles I hope you will take a deep breath and think about how this has changed your understanding of the Catholic Church. I hope you will feel curious to learn more about the Eastern Catholic Churches. There is so much available on line. In addition to the interviews with the monks, Father Loya has a wonderful weekly radio show archived here. Eastern Catholic Media has excellent videos. (These are all Byzantine, but do include some references also to the Oriental Eastern Churches.) There are many videos on YouTube of Divine Liturgy and Vigils etc in different Eastern traditions.

Your priest will have learned something more about the Church in this process, too.

You can maybe tell by our enthusiasm how much we all love our Eastern Churches. Of course the Latin Church also has great beauty, wisdom and tradition, which you have found speaks to you profoundly.

 

[5Loaves]

You’re still Russian. You pray at a Roman parish, your priest and bishop are roman. But, you still remain Russian. Should you enter a convent, you wear the russian style habit.

I wonder… We have in our Byz parish a Ukrainian Catholic who is a Dominican Brother. He wears the usual (beautiful ) Dominican garb except during DL when he wears an Eastern deacon’s vestment. So I would think she would wear, or could wear, the same habit as the other sisters/nuns, parallel to our deacon/Brother and his Dominican garb.

I was chatting yesterday with him and our priest about OP’s questions. They commented that if she wanted to become a Religious in a Western tradition, like our Ukrainian deacon/Dominican Brother, the Western religious order would take care of getting the approval for that. I hadn’t seen this post of yours so we didn’t talk about the clothing part.

 

[Aramis]

I wonder… We have in our Byz parish a Ukrainian Catholic who is a Dominican Brother. He wears the usual (beautiful ) Dominican garb except during DL when he wears an Eastern deacon’s vestment. So I would think she would wear, or could wear, the same habit as the other sisters/nuns, parallel to our deacon/Brother and his Dominican garb.

I was chatting yesterday with him and our priest about OP’s questions. They commented that if she wanted to become a Religious in a Western tradition, like our Ukrainian deacon/Dominican Brother, the Western religious order would take care of getting the approval for that. I hadn’t seen this post of yours so we didn’t talk about the clothing part.

Ordered friars have to follow the rule of their order; the Dominican rule includes the Dominican habit. It’s a latinization in the East, and it’s honestly debatable for ordered clerics as to whether they should. Becoming a Dominican is darned near a change of rite anyway… the local Roman cathedral had a Byzantine Dominican deacon assigned; he wore the dominican habit.

However, one is supposed to get a dispensation to join an order of a different rite than one’s enrolled in. Doesn’t always happen that way…

 

[Monica4316]

thanks everyone! I appreciate all your help…very much… God bless!

 

[Monica4316]

Hi, sorry I have another question

when it says “territorial boundaries” of the sui iuris church… what does this mean? what are these boundaries?

For example I live in Canada. THe closest Russian Catholic parish seems to be in another province (in the city of Montreal). Am I outside of the territorial boundary? does anyone know?

thanks!

 

[Aramis]

It is your right as a Catholic to ask the bishop reasonable questions affecting your status. It’s in canon law.

 

[Monica4316]

There are no “territorial boundaries” for the Russian Catholic Church, in part because it’s got no bishops of its own.

It is your right as a Catholic to ask the bishop reasonable questions affecting your status. It’s in canon law.

I want to ask the bishop, it might just take a while cause I know bishops must be very busy. Until then, I’m not sure what to do…

If there are no territorial boundaries, I guess that means I should follow the Eastern fasts and days of obligation… well today I missed the feast day (had trouble getting there) and didn’t fast - this is an ongoing issue… my family isn’t fasting and I’m still a student and live at home… my mom made dinner and we all ate together, I didn’t feel it was charitable to just refuse my portion. I don’t know if I’ve made the right choice, … you all know better than me, according to Eastern Catholicism, can I no longer receive the Eucharist tomorrow?

If I’ve sinned, (by failing to meet my obligation) - it’s difficult bringing this up at Confession, cause the priest tells me that i’m Roman Catholic. I feel that I should follow the guidance of my priest, especially at Confession. So in this case, I’m torn between my priest’s view and the Eastern Canon. Not sure which one God would have me follow right now.

wow…this is kind of a struggle for me. I’m sorry I’m having a hard time with this but thanks for answering my questions… I’ll let you know what the bishop says

God bless

 

[Aramis]

I want to ask the bishop, it might just take a while cause I know bishops must be very busy. Until then, I’m not sure what to do…

If there are no territorial boundaries, I guess that means I should follow the Eastern fasts and days of obligation… well today I missed the feast day (had trouble getting there) and didn’t fast - this is an ongoing issue… my family isn’t fasting and I’m still a student and live at home… my mom made dinner and we all ate it together, I didn’t feel it was charitable to just refuse my portion. I don’t know if I’ve made the right choice, … you all know better than me, according to Eastern Catholicism, can I no longer receive the Eucharist tomorrow?

wow…this is kind of a struggle for me. I’m sorry I’m having a hard time with this but thanks for answering my questions… I’ll let you know what the bishop says

God bless

If you had no ability to get to liturgy, even on a sunday, holy day, or even the great feasts of Pascha/Easter or Nativity/Christmas, no sin is incurred. Inability to make it to a parish renders the obligation null under canon law.

 

[Monica4316]

If you had no ability to get to liturgy, even on a sunday, holy day, or even the great feasts of Pascha/Easter or Nativity/Christmas, no sin is incurred. Inability to make it to a parish renders the obligation null under canon law.

I know this…but it was a bit more complex… it’s sort of a family issue. I don’t have a car and have to get a ride to church…but I can’t go a lot - cause there have been issues about it in the past - and I was just worried/scared about asking for a ride. I was afraid of starting an argument or making anyone upset. Such a dumb reason I know.

 

[5Loaves]

Dear Monica-

I’m so sorry these issues continue to distress you. This is not the intent of any of the disciplines in the Church.

I am not an expert in Eastern Law. But, just to provide some relevant canons from the Eastern Code:
Canon 883 - §1. The Christian faithful who are outside the territorial boundaries of their own Church sui iuris can adopt fully for themselves the feast days and days of penance which are in force where they are staying.
§2. …

I did ask my canon law teacher about this today after class. He said you have understood this correctly, Dan- when living where one cannot participate in one’s own Church sui iuris then one can abide by “the feast days and days of penance which are in force where they are staying.” and “where they are staying” would be their home (in OP’s case Roman rite) parish. [CCEO Canon 883]

If you had no ability to get to liturgy, even on a sunday, holy day, or even the great feasts of Pascha/Easter or Nativity/Christmas, no sin is incurred. Inability to make it to a parish renders the obligation null under canon law.

I’m not clear if you have disagreed with the information previously posted that under the circumstances you have described you are not obligated to follow the Byzantine Catholic calendar, although you are free to do so, and in that case fasting should always been done under the case of a spiritual father, for many reasons.

It seems like there are some elements of being overly scrupulous in your concerns. That is something your parish priest can help you with. It sounds like in his own way he is striving to help you with that.

As you mentioned today is a beautiful feast day for Catholics East and West. I was blest to be able to go to DL today. In his homily Father mentioned listening to Fr Tom Hopko speaking on this feast. I just listened to this and it is a truly valuable talk if you have time to listen to it. As I mentioned to you in my PM on 11/13, you might find additional help on the other forum.

The peace of the LORD be with you.

Troparion of the Feast (Tone 4)
Today is the prelude of the good will of God, of the preaching of the salvation of mankind. The Virgin appears in the Temple of God, in anticipation proclaiming Christ to all. Let us rejoice and sing to her: Rejoice, O divine Fulfillment of the Creator’s dispensation!
Kontakion of the Feast (Tone 4)
The most pure Temple of the Savior; the precious Chamber and Virgin; the sacred Treasure of the glory of God, is presented today to the house of the Lord. She brings with her the grace of the Spirit, which the angels of God do praise. Truly this woman is the Abode of Heaven!

 

[Monica4316]

Thanks for your reply… that’s what I thought before too but then it seems that the Russian Orthodox church doesn’t have territorial boundaries… so I guess this canon wouldn’t apply to me… I dont know.

 

[Aramis]

Physical or moral impossibility is a real impediment. It sounds like your moral principles of not being a burden were part of your inability to attend. Discuss it with your confessor.

Until then, relax. When you are not certain if you’ve made an actual sin, or realize you have, an act of contrition is a good start, until you can get to confession.