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mmmcounts
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This one might be answerable in just a few words; I certainly hope so. I’ve used this forum to talk quite a bit about a variety of topics, but something that hasn’t come up much (actually, I just haven’t explored it until now) is the issue of forgiveness. I guess you don’t get an answer until you ask a question, and the topic doesn’t come up as readily as some others. So on this thread, I’m not seeking more commentary hating on OSAS, free grace theology, and other things of that sort. I’m seeking a little something something on forgiveness of sins, and I’m curious to see what your reactions are.
In order to facilitate that, here’s a hypothetical story that happens to be entirely true. Imagine a guy who grows up in Chicago. His momma’s a Christian, so he grows up as a pretty good kid who does OK in school, but Christ hadn’t changed his life. He winds up in the US Army. He’s living in Japan at a military base with a young lady he’s not married to. During his down time, he spends a lot of time drinking. On one particular night, he gets totally plastered, loses control, and doesn’t come to his senses until the next morning. At that point, he finds out he’s a murderer. He got mad about something an wound up killing his girlfriend that night. Right then, he’s right on par with King David- an adulterer and a murderer. A fundamental difference between this guy and King David, though, is that kings don’t go to jail when they do this kind of thing. This guy did.
It so happens that in Japan, murderers don’t spend nearly as much time in prison as you might expect from your experience in another part of the world. This man was sentenced to only seven years in prison and wound up serving just three. During that time, he was doing some extremely boring work making license plates. A guy came up to him at one point and said something like “Hey, do you want to do some Bible reading and learning about Jesus?” He said “No way, I’m not into that.” The guy told him “Dude, you won’t have to keep doing this if you come over here.” So he said “OK, fine. I really hate doing this.” Long story short, it took a little bit of time and quite a few more sessions talking it out with the Bible guys, but this guy became a Christian. His life was changed, and once he got out of prison, he went back to Chicago and dedicated his life to preaching the Gospel in the Cook County prison system.
Very often, he will run into men who, like him, are murderers, adulterers, and generally screwed up human beings. They know they are “sinners” in the sense that they have done some seriously wrong things. Many of these men feel that they have done things that no one could possibly forgive. The aforementioned man in this story shares his experience on a daily basis and tells them how God forgave him, and he knows it in a number of ways. One of those ways is on a personal level where the Holy Spirit testifies the truth of the matter to him. Another way is by believing the promises found in the Bible that testify to the fact that God will forgive sinners who have murdered, fornicated, etc. Then, as every good evangelist does after explaining such a thing, he will at some point present the opportunity to make a decision: Do you, a sinner and convicted felon, wish to be forgiven of all your sins, be cleansed of all unrighteousness, and start a brand new life serving God through the grace of Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit? Some will say yes, some will say no. If they say yes, I think we all know where it goes from there: Business gets taken care of between that man and God. Once that happens, the man in our story assures his new acquaintance that a truly repentant sinner seeking forgiveness from God receives forgiveness, regardless of the gravity of his sin. The next step is a new life in Christ, which is explained in detail over the course of the next few weeks and lived out to whatever extent is possible in a prison. As for the forgiveness, though- which is the main focus of this thread- that happens right when the repentant man asks for it (or so our friend will always say). All the other stuff comes after this incredible forgiveness- indeed, many of these men would say the “other stuff” happens precisely as a result of the unbelievable forgiveness that they don’t deserve and which only God can give.
Some of my questions are these: What is your reaction to this situation? Are you OK with a convicted felon being entirely forgiven of all his sins just as soon as he repents and asks for forgiveness? Do you feel like he has to go and do something before he can really be forgiven? (I realize he’s not yet either sanctified or glorified. No freaking duh. I’m focusing on the question of whether or not his sins are forgiven). Do you feel that you have a tendency to put “forgiven” in quotation marks and remind me of how sins aren’t really fully forgiven until…???..???
The most important question I have, and the one for which I request the most direct response, is this: If you were standing outside the jail cell next to “the guy” (the one who killed his g/f in Japan) and you watched the prisoner pray to God asking for forgiveness, would you be OK with our friend telling him “God just forgave you of all your sins?” If you heard him say that to the prisoner and you were totally free to add your own response, what would you add?
Please make sure you limit your answer to the topic of forgiveness. When that criminal guy in the cell hears, believes, repents, confesses, and prays asking for forgiveness, are you completely OK with standing silently while our friend tells him “Son, God just forgave you of all your sins?” Do you regard this as a true statement or not? For you, is that really all it takes in order to be forgiven, or do you feel the need to add something else? I won’t put any words in your mouth. Just tell me if you would remain silent on this matter of forgiveness or if you would dispute it.
In order to facilitate that, here’s a hypothetical story that happens to be entirely true. Imagine a guy who grows up in Chicago. His momma’s a Christian, so he grows up as a pretty good kid who does OK in school, but Christ hadn’t changed his life. He winds up in the US Army. He’s living in Japan at a military base with a young lady he’s not married to. During his down time, he spends a lot of time drinking. On one particular night, he gets totally plastered, loses control, and doesn’t come to his senses until the next morning. At that point, he finds out he’s a murderer. He got mad about something an wound up killing his girlfriend that night. Right then, he’s right on par with King David- an adulterer and a murderer. A fundamental difference between this guy and King David, though, is that kings don’t go to jail when they do this kind of thing. This guy did.
It so happens that in Japan, murderers don’t spend nearly as much time in prison as you might expect from your experience in another part of the world. This man was sentenced to only seven years in prison and wound up serving just three. During that time, he was doing some extremely boring work making license plates. A guy came up to him at one point and said something like “Hey, do you want to do some Bible reading and learning about Jesus?” He said “No way, I’m not into that.” The guy told him “Dude, you won’t have to keep doing this if you come over here.” So he said “OK, fine. I really hate doing this.” Long story short, it took a little bit of time and quite a few more sessions talking it out with the Bible guys, but this guy became a Christian. His life was changed, and once he got out of prison, he went back to Chicago and dedicated his life to preaching the Gospel in the Cook County prison system.
Very often, he will run into men who, like him, are murderers, adulterers, and generally screwed up human beings. They know they are “sinners” in the sense that they have done some seriously wrong things. Many of these men feel that they have done things that no one could possibly forgive. The aforementioned man in this story shares his experience on a daily basis and tells them how God forgave him, and he knows it in a number of ways. One of those ways is on a personal level where the Holy Spirit testifies the truth of the matter to him. Another way is by believing the promises found in the Bible that testify to the fact that God will forgive sinners who have murdered, fornicated, etc. Then, as every good evangelist does after explaining such a thing, he will at some point present the opportunity to make a decision: Do you, a sinner and convicted felon, wish to be forgiven of all your sins, be cleansed of all unrighteousness, and start a brand new life serving God through the grace of Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit? Some will say yes, some will say no. If they say yes, I think we all know where it goes from there: Business gets taken care of between that man and God. Once that happens, the man in our story assures his new acquaintance that a truly repentant sinner seeking forgiveness from God receives forgiveness, regardless of the gravity of his sin. The next step is a new life in Christ, which is explained in detail over the course of the next few weeks and lived out to whatever extent is possible in a prison. As for the forgiveness, though- which is the main focus of this thread- that happens right when the repentant man asks for it (or so our friend will always say). All the other stuff comes after this incredible forgiveness- indeed, many of these men would say the “other stuff” happens precisely as a result of the unbelievable forgiveness that they don’t deserve and which only God can give.
Some of my questions are these: What is your reaction to this situation? Are you OK with a convicted felon being entirely forgiven of all his sins just as soon as he repents and asks for forgiveness? Do you feel like he has to go and do something before he can really be forgiven? (I realize he’s not yet either sanctified or glorified. No freaking duh. I’m focusing on the question of whether or not his sins are forgiven). Do you feel that you have a tendency to put “forgiven” in quotation marks and remind me of how sins aren’t really fully forgiven until…???..???
The most important question I have, and the one for which I request the most direct response, is this: If you were standing outside the jail cell next to “the guy” (the one who killed his g/f in Japan) and you watched the prisoner pray to God asking for forgiveness, would you be OK with our friend telling him “God just forgave you of all your sins?” If you heard him say that to the prisoner and you were totally free to add your own response, what would you add?
Please make sure you limit your answer to the topic of forgiveness. When that criminal guy in the cell hears, believes, repents, confesses, and prays asking for forgiveness, are you completely OK with standing silently while our friend tells him “Son, God just forgave you of all your sins?” Do you regard this as a true statement or not? For you, is that really all it takes in order to be forgiven, or do you feel the need to add something else? I won’t put any words in your mouth. Just tell me if you would remain silent on this matter of forgiveness or if you would dispute it.