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Wolseley
Guest
Just curious, but who is the bishop of this diocese, Abbie Hoffman?
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netmilsmom
Guest
Amen!!
I left my old Protestant/Catholic community for the same reason. I had to Unteach everything that my children were learning in “Religious Formation”.
Now they learn CCC and I am happy. The old parish is fighting for survival. If we give support to the good parishes, the others will close or change.
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MEP
Guest
I am not in a similar situation, but the question has been posed to me about liturgical abuses by individual priests, bishops etc. and what Catholics can do about them. Usually these questions come from outside the faith or from those who have lapsed (due to things like the sex scandal on the East Coast). I know that we as members of the laity have certain responsibilities, but I’m not sure what exactly those responsibilities are.
Is there somewhere specific in Canon Law that tells us what we are supposed to do when we encounter a member of the clergy who is clearly abusing their position? The suggestions given above are all great, but where specifically is this issue addressed in the written documents of the church? It would just be nice to be able to tell people, “Yes, Catholics can respond to these kinds of issues,” and actually have the written reference ready to back up that statement. It might also help Tibbar defend his actions if he does write to his bishop and someone gets upset about it.
I can find it on my own, but I was kind of hoping someone here would already know so I could save a little time.
Is there somewhere specific in Canon Law that tells us what we are supposed to do when we encounter a member of the clergy who is clearly abusing their position? The suggestions given above are all great, but where specifically is this issue addressed in the written documents of the church? It would just be nice to be able to tell people, “Yes, Catholics can respond to these kinds of issues,” and actually have the written reference ready to back up that statement. It might also help Tibbar defend his actions if he does write to his bishop and someone gets upset about it.
I can find it on my own, but I was kind of hoping someone here would already know so I could save a little time.
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YinYangMom
Guest
So, shouldn’t he at least attempt to involve the bishop first?
Then, if the bishop does not respond he’s in a better position to leave this parish to find another.
The question then becomes…if he goes to another parish, isn’t the ‘right’ parish under the same jurisdiction of the bishop over the ‘wrong’ parish???
Where we live, we cannot pick and choose our parishes. Our parishes are dictated by geographic boundary lines. If I live in block X I join Church X, if I live in block Y I join Church Y. I’ve learned to visit different masses before picking a home.
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YinYangMom
Guest
Panis Angelicas said:
While I concur with your overall scriptural reference about moving on, I don’t believe these parishes will die out.
The reason these priests are able to make these changes is because it is popular among his parishioners…word gets out and more come…more INO and Cafeteria Catholics…
This is the problem with the U.S. Churches overall…there are too many Catholics who don’t know their catechism who are willing to be misled and who are welcoming such erroneous teaching. Because they don’t know it’s wrong, they go around believing they are right and we are wrong…and it spirals downward from there.
I believe our silence and walking away has allowed this situation to get as bad as it is.
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YinYangMom
Guest
Wow.
So it appears the bishop follows the same line of reasoning this priest follows? That being true to the magesterium is not welcome in his diocese?
What next then? Who is the next up the ladder to complain to? This really has to stop, or at least stop going by without complaint.
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MEP
Guest
I think anyone can pick and choose their parish if they don’t mind not being registered there. It’s not like they check your ID at the door.
I’m lucky that my address is within the boundary lines of several overlapping parishes, one of which I’ve grown quite fond of.
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RobNY
Guest
Well, everyone seems to respect JPII. And, since that’s the case, why not use Ordinatio Sacerdotalis to show how JPII denied that women could be priests.
Who would want to deny the judgment not only of such a saintly man, but also of the pope?
Also, I’m sure you have friends at the parish? Why not reveal your concerns to them as well.
If you approach people with humility and charity, I’m sure you’ll do well. If worst comes to worst, abandon the parish, but I wouldn’t do that right away. There is a chance for change, right?
I have a feeling that with some gentle guidance, many of the people will agree with you, actually. The problem is that many people don’t actually know what official Church teaching is.
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CatholicChef
Guest
I would contact the bishop in your diocese. He needs to be aware of this.
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YinYangMom
Guest
Well there’s the key, isn’t it? Being registered.
Of course I’d want to be registered with a parish - heaven forbid, something should happen to me, or anyone in my family, the priest and the various committees at our parish would be at the top of my WHO TO CONTACT list.
Isn’t your registered parish the one responsible for sacrament initiation for children? Don’t you have to belong to a parish before they admit children for communion, confession, confirmation?
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mosher
Guest
Yes but it is a bit vague under the 1983 code because it does not require catholics to belong to the parish that is geographically nearest to them giving more freedom of choice in parish. But, where one is registered is where their obedience is to be held. So, it is always prudent to make sure, for the sake of your family and yourself that you register at a parish that is orthodox.
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Dr.Bombay
Guest
I believe our silence and staying put has allowed this situation to get as bad as it is.
“My family’s been in this parish for 50 years…”
“I’m not going to let a priest run me out of MY parish…”
“Well, he’s a priest so he must know what he’s talking about…”
“I’m just a high school grad. Father’s got an STD! I’d feel stupid questioning him…”
“Gas is SOOOOOO expensive nowadays…”
“Hmmmm…I wonder who’s going to get kicked off the island tonight…”
These and other lame excuses for not voting with your feet have been proferred for years. As a result, the Church-hating Amazons have taken over and squash with their jack boots any dissenting voices of orthodoxy.
Because of their sterile sexual deviancy, these people aren’t reproducing. They’ll die out eventually if we have the courage to stop supporting their parishes and stupid radical agendas.
Again I say…RUN AWAY…FAST!!! :yup:
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severinus
Guest
In both my posts, I state that one should approach the bishop first. Some bishops, however, do not bother to respond to issues of sacerdotal orthodoxy or liturgical abuse. If one has made an effort in good faith to bring the issue to the bishop’s attention, and the response is inadequate, then one should probably leave.
It is true that the same bishop may have jurisdiction over both parishes, but one has no obligation to participate in heterodoxy. Eventually, shrinking numbers and collections at the ‘wrong’ parish get the message across.
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Tibbar
Guest
I don’t think the Bishop is the problem. He is relatively new to the Diocese, and seems to be moderately conservative.
I think the problem is that now the clergy and religious of the baby-boomer generation, who were raised by their parents in the Dr. Spock “You are the center of the universe…fight the power and authority” mode are now in positions of authority within the diocese.
I think that this type of situation is one that needs to be dealt with more directly and succinctly by Rome.
Don’t get me wrong. I like this priest as a person. He is very intelligent and concerned about those who are marginalized. I just feel very uneasy about his “agenda” styled ministry. The message being sent to the congregation is: “I’m OK, you’re OK.” And he wonders why only a select few bother to participate and give money? For instance, he once said in a homily that all people are basically good. I strongly disagree. Examples: Hitler, Mohammad Atta, Sadaam Hussein, etc…
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harinkj
Guest
There is a lot of good advice here, even if it is contradictory. 
Pray on it and don’t feel obligated to stay. :clapping:
Kathie :bowdown:
Pray on it and don’t feel obligated to stay. :clapping:
Kathie :bowdown:
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mosher
Guest
Dr. Bombay:
I love your posts.
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catsrus
Guest
2 months after being confirmed at a Newman Center, I listened to a deacon give a homily in which he noted a woman who approached JPII during his visit in 1987 in Phoenix and exclaimed her displeasure at The Church not allowing woman priests. The deacon lauded this woman’s out spokenness about this “wrong” and said she was a candidate for sainthood. This was an All Saints Day homily.
This was the straw that chased me from this parish. I’d listened to so much new age opinion during the various homilies and R.C.I.A. instruction that I knew was not Catholic teaching.
I could have stayed and tried to object to all the heterodox stuff, but felt ill equipped because I was so new and everyone with whom I associated at this parish fell into the same mind set. It was overwhelming. So I just moved on.
This was the straw that chased me from this parish. I’d listened to so much new age opinion during the various homilies and R.C.I.A. instruction that I knew was not Catholic teaching.
I could have stayed and tried to object to all the heterodox stuff, but felt ill equipped because I was so new and everyone with whom I associated at this parish fell into the same mind set. It was overwhelming. So I just moved on.
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axolotl
Guest
WAG–Diocese of Saginaw??
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netmilsmom
Guest
Dr. Bombay:
(BTW, I also love your posts)
Funny how the norm at my traditional parish is 4 or more kids!
(BTW, I also love your posts)
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4HisChurch
Guest
That needs to be reported to the Vatican. That is totally sick. They should start their own protestant church if they feel that way.
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