a little understanding about wicca, its not bad

[KarenNC]

im hear to clear up a little bit of misinformation about wicca. during its time on earth, it has gone by many names, paegan as one of them. it is the oldest religion in the world, and is also the “base” religion, where the others spawnd from. a little known fact is why chatholics are made to hate it. during the young age of the catholics, the leaders wanted to get more people into it. they told the world that if they did not belive in god and jesus, the wicca would destroy them by word of the devil. the truth is, wicca split in to 2 parts. we have the original good wicca, and the evil warped satanists that worship the devil. the satanists belives the catholics and created there own religion, thinking it was wicca, they were wrong. wicca is the religion of the earth. it belives all things are equal, and the god and goddes refer to the seasons, mother nature and farther time. im not putting your religion down, but due to the old crooked religion laders (some of them were, you cant deny)you were all brainwashed into thinking wicca is evil.

Sorry, silver, but it seems that there needs to be a rather substantial amount of misinformation cleared up in your understanding of the history of your religion as well.

I would suggest that you do a bit more research into the origins of Wicca. British historian Ronald Hutton has done a really helpful book called “Triumph of the Moon: A history of modern Pagan Witchcraft” that takes a look at the societal and philosophical trends in the 19th century that laid the basis for the appearance of Wicca (among a number of other groups) in Britain in the 20th century. The second half of the book goes into great detail on the emergence of Wicca in Britain, the differing factions, the exportation of Wicca to the US where it mixed with radical feminism then came back to Britain where it again altered the shape of Wicca. Fascinating book, one that I thoroughly enjoyed and would recommend to any student of religion as an example of the way in which a new religion can emerge.

I have not read Chas Clifton’s book on the rise of Wicca and other religions under the Neopagan umbrella called “Her Hidden Children: the rise of Wicca and Paganism in America” but it has been highly recommended to me by a number of folks whose opinions I value in such an arena.

Wicca is indeed a new religion, with no evidence that it existed in any of its forms prior to the 20th century. It is most assuredly not the “oldest religion in the world” nor the “base for all other religions”.

Now, does it include elements of and seek to draw inspiration from a large number of pre-Christian European religions? Certainly. Syncretism is nothing new in religion–all of them do it to one extent or another.

Is it either what was considered Satanism in medieval times or what Anton LeVay terms Satanism? Certainly not.

Is it a valid religion? It’s followers certainly believe so, just as strongly as the followers of any other religion.

Now, as to “during the young age of the catholics, the leaders wanted to get more people into it. they told the world that if they did not belive in god and jesus, the wicca would destroy them by word of the devil”----I know of absolutely no basis for that statement. What do you mean by “the wicca”?

 

[TOP]

Wicca is not evil. It is used for evil.

It is a clear manifestation of evil and a decay of morals. The worship of demons opposed to God. I hope you good christians prayed to counter the evil that was done by wiccans last Saturday night, the 27th?

 

[KarenNC]

Wiccans will tell you that the supposed “origin” of “the craft” in 1951 is an artifact of the repeal in that of laws in England that made witchcraft illegal. They claim that the craft is truly ancient.

There’s a Trail of Blood kind of reasoning going on here.

Actually most Wiccans that I have met will freely tell you that the myth is rather that Wicca existed in pre-Christian Europe. They do not claim that it is truly ancient, though it does draw on ancient sources.

 

[Keikiolu]

…{sni}…

PEOPLE…!!!

Listen to this person. She knows what she’s talking about.

One of the very VERY few who does in these matters.

I disagree with her utterly as to the “validity” of any of the gods, but I respect her for her commitment to that which she does believe,…

…and I choose to believe that she is a person devoted to as good a following of natural law, with a massive subconscious admixture of Christian morals, as is humanly possibly in pursuit of being a very very good person.

E aloha nui loa 'oe, Karen…!!

 

[cheese_sdc]

It is a clear manifestation of evil and a decay of morals. The worship of demons opposed to God. I hope you good christians prayed to counter the evil that was done by wiccans last Saturday night, the 27th?

What about the evil done by Buddhists? Or Hindus? Or Taoists?

Yet the Church accepts these beliefs as people “sincerely seeking Truth” (Declaration on the Relationship of the Church to Non-Christian Religions). I think we should extend the same to Wiccans.

 

[mercygate]

Actually most Wiccans that I have met will freely tell you that the myth is rather that Wicca existed in pre-Christian Europe. They do not claim that it is truly ancient, though it does draw on ancient sources.

:tiphat: I bow to your clearly more extensive knowledge of the subject than my own and shall bow out of this discussion and watch as it unfolds. I expect to learn a great deal!

 

[Keikiolu]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keikiolu forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
Wicca is not evil. It is used for evil.

It is a clear manifestation of evil and a decay of morals. The worship of demons opposed to God. I hope you good christians prayed to counter the evil that was done by wiccans last Saturday night, the 27th?

Wicca is foolishness, used by enslavers of children. Under that description you could well say that wicca is in fact evil.

I worded that as I did to differentiate the concept of wicca, which is to those “of that persuasion” a “warm fuzzy nice-nice religion of innocence”, which they naively take as “not evil”, as opposed to those who actively enslave people with the nastily “cool” tool called wicca.

 

[KarenNC]

Neo-paganism is simply a counter-revolution (revolt) specifically against Christianity,… and is composed of specifically anti-Christian “items”.

Want to be a bit more specific? Things like what you mean by “items”? Which particular religion that falls under the umbrella of Neopaganism you are referencing?

Neo-paganism is polytheist precisely so that those whom it influences can be have “their own” god, which ca be used by neo-pagan “leaders” to battle against their enemies.

Now, c’mon Keikiolu, I would expect better of you than that…

Not all religions that are considered Neopagan are polytheist. I would say that actually there aren’t as many “hard” polytheists (those who believe that the Gods are indeed separate individuals) as there are those with the idea that all Gods and Goddesses are simply facets of a singular God and Goddess (and usually further that even such a duotheistic view is simply another way of approaching an ultimate underlying “oneness”).

It’s not accurate to try to describe all those following Neopagan religions as simply playing a different version of Pokemon. Certainly there are those in any religion who have a rather…shall we say “interesting”?..view of the relationship between humanity and that which is sacred. Every religion also has its share of those whose understanding of the religion is less mature or less scholarly than the understanding of others in the same religion.

 

[Hesychios]

im hear to clear up a little bit of misinformation about wicca. during its time on earth…

You lost me right there.

Wicca is just fantasy gameplay. It is made up, and has no real connection to European paganism. You might wish differently, but you won’t find any serious connection before the 19th century. The last vestiges of serious traditional paganism were gone well before the sixteenth century and the remnant non-Christians had forgotten the important teachings of their local variety of paganism and lost their priesthoods.

It’s a shame too, because historians today would love to know more about those teachings. But they won’t learn anything from you.

The only reason the public takes Wicca seriously at all is that kids are attracted to it, and we worry that our kids are possibly involved in nonsense, or troublemaking. But, they will grow out of it, or tire of it, just like you will.

Michael

 

[TOP]

What about the evil done by Buddhists? Or Hindus? Or Taoists?

Yet the Church accepts these beliefs as people “sincerely seeking Truth” (Declaration on the Relationship of the Church to Non-Christian Religions). I think we should extend the same to Wiccans.

You should email the Pope about your “christian mission”. benedictxvi@vatican.va

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I was going to respond, and then I was that everyone else took care of it.
Good job y’all!

 

[KarenNC]

I hope you good christians prayed to counter the evil that was done by wiccans last Saturday night, the 27th?

Want to be a little more specific on that one? I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Want to be a little more specific on that one? I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Samhain. If I am remembering my seasons/moons/etcs correctly.

 

[Keikiolu]

What about the evil done by Buddhists? Or Hindus? Or Taoists?

Yet the Church accepts these beliefs as people “sincerely seeking Truth” (Declaration on the Relationship of the Church to Non-Christian Religions). I think we should extend the same to Wiccans.

Wicca is distinct in it’s utter lack of doctrine.

In as much as any particular “wiccan” is sincerely seeking truth, it will lead them rapidly away from wicca, as ANY truth will present itself as a doctrine, which will be immediately contradicted (as “relative”) by the belief system known as wicca.

In other words, any human decision making in the area of morals (and faith) becomes a statement AGAINST their chosen “faith”, because their chosen “faith” states that all morals are relative.

Thus, to believe a dogma (decision of faith and morals) is to violate the prime “dogma” of their own faith.

If you’re into self-contradiction as a “religion”, then wicca is for you…!

But that is the point of neo-paganism. To simply contradict, via brute force, truth, which we descibe as God Himself, so as to give a “useful outlet” for the potent energy of “youthful petulent perversity”.

And to whom is this energy useful?

Any guesses, out there…!?

 

[cheese_sdc]

You should email the Pope about your “christian mission”. benedictxvi@vatican.va

I’m sure he’s already read it (the Declaration, that is).

 

[TOP]

I’m sure he’s already read it (the Declaration, that is).

Let us know how the meeting goes and if we are to consider this evil as a true religion. Thanks

 

[goodknight439]

I agree Rebecca. This is another group of people looking for religion to support their own moral relativism. The same goes for the Unitarian Universalists. Hokey, contrived, feel-good, glurge. Let’s all hold hands and sing kum-bay-ya.

Looked at it, thought about it, talked to people who are seriously Wicca. It all struck me as rather hokey and contrived with no basis in anything but what some guy made up in the 20th century. And, over a few decades other people added really cool and nifty ideas to his ideas.

Hokey, made up religion…I don’t need any more of that. But that’s just me.

 

[KarenNC]

PEOPLE…!!!

Listen to this person. She knows what she’s talking about.

One of the very VERY few who does in these matters.

I disagree with her utterly as to the “validity” of any of the gods, but I respect her for her commitment to that which she does believe,…

…and I choose to believe that she is a person devoted to as good a following of natural law, with a massive subconscious admixture of Christian morals, as is humanly possibly in pursuit of being a very very good person.

E aloha nui loa 'oe, Karen…!!

Thanks for the kind words. If you *didn’t" disagree with me about the validity of polytheism, I would have to wonder why you considered yourself Catholic . Thankfully, it is not necessary to agree entirely with another person’s views in order to have a discussion about them. As Aristotle said “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it”.

As I was raised as a very, very active Christian, the “admixture” is not so subconscious. I agree with many (though not all) Christian morals (of course that depends on the particular brand of Christianity). Most of them are not dissimilar to the morals of most religions. The Christian Church has given a lot that is very good to the world (along with some that is not—pretty much true of all religions)–art, music, a wonderful model of charity and caring for the less fortunate, etc. All things to be admired. I simply have never been able, even as a child, to truly believe that there is only one God, which kind of lets out the whole “monotheist” label , much less the “Christian” one.

I do want to be clear that I am not and have never been Wiccan, so I speak based on many years of close acquaintance with a number of Wiccans and Neopagans who follow a Wiccan-esque form of religion, fairly extensive reading and discussions. I am, as can be seen by my profile, a follower of one of those very diverse religions that get clumped under the umbrella term “Neopagan” (and frequently gets assumed, therefore to be Wiccan ). There are others who have been on this forum before (who I hope will join in the discussion) much more qualified than I am to discuss the topic, but, as I am one of the few Neopagans here…

So, silver, my remarks are not because you are non-Christian, but because you are making statements that are well-intentioned but simply factually incorrect.

 

[inthecloud]

If you are into paganism why not become a true pagan and not a “reconstructed” trail of blood pagan like Wiccans.
I heard Santería and Palo Mayombe are taking converts.
They (a)moral teachings are very similar.

 

[KarenNC]

But that is the point of neo-paganism. To simply contradict, via brute force, truth, which we descibe as God Himself, so as to give a “useful outlet” for the potent energy of “youthful petulent perversity”.

Nope, you don’t get a freebie on that one either. I doubt that I would, for instance, at almost 45 be accused of needing a “useful outlet for the potent energy of youthful petulant perversity”.

It is certainly true that there are teens and young adults who turn to what they imagine many Neopagan religions to be in search of a way to shock their parents, society or be “different” or “cool”, but there are many many more of all ages who are just as serious about their religion as any Catholic. Most of the ones who are trying to “shock” end up leaving fairly quickly when they realize that Wicca isn’t what they assumed based on “Buffy” and “Charmed” and fantasy novels, but a fairly pedestrian religion concerned with the same things as the religion they left—being a good person and living the best life one can. Some of them do develop a more mature understanding of the faith and stay.