A little whine about mode of dress

[Vatican2Rocks]

It’s important to dress up for God!! He’s your savior and you go to church to see HIM! Sunday is the sabbath day, not just an ordinary day of the week. Wear your suit and your best dress!! Make an effort because you’re seeing God

I’d rather not. I am not there to impress God. I am there to listen to the homily and to receive holy communion. nothing more, nothing less. I don’t care or pay attention to how others are dressed, i am focused on what I am there for.

 

[thewanderer]

however, those who dress up for church and are not in contempt on this thread should also think about WHY they dress up or overdress for church. is it because they want to honor god?or is it because they want to show off and are competing with others to show that they are somehow superior to their neighbors at church? or to somehow have respect of a kind by showing their status? or trying to impress others? you know…status symbols. keeping up with the joneses and/or competing with the joneses.

that is the truth about people who overdress at church. its a status symbol message to everyone else and it is for self advertisement rather than to honor the half naked christ on a cross.

I’m not sure what you mean by overdress, but if youmean women wearing nice skirts/dresses then I would just like to point out that I wear nice skirts/dresses to church most sundays… and I can assure you I do not do so as a ‘self-advertisement’ or for the sake of 'keeping up with the Jones" etc. I also happen to know many people that dress nicely to mass at least most sundays who do it as a sign of respect to Christ. So if by overdress you mean turn up dressed in something more formal than jeans I assure you you are incorrect about this ridiculous generalization.

 

[thewanderer]

I’d rather not. I am not there to impress God. I am there to listen to the homily and to receive holy communion. nothing more, nothing less. I don’t care or pay attention to how others are dressed, i am focused on what I am there for.

berkley09 wasn’t saying judge others while at mass. He/She said that dressing nicely as a sign of respect towards God is a good thing and encouraged people to do this. There is a huge difference between encouraging people to follow a good and beneficial tradition and judging others for their attire or encouraging others to be judgemental.

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

To Kathyrn Ann, Great post! From Katherine Anne

:heaven::harp:Thank you, onmyknees, for understanding my intent. We can’t judge another’s heart, but we can surely question our own motives and pray for direction! God is great and loves all who walk through the doors of His Church.
:heaven::angel1:Kathryn Ann

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

I’m not sure what you mean by overdress, but if youmean women wearing nice skirts/dresses then I would just like to point out that I wear nice skirts/dresses to church most sundays… and I can assure you I do not do so as a ‘self-advertisement’ or for the sake of 'keeping up with the Jones" etc. I also happen to know many people that dress nicely to mass at least most sundays who do it as a sign of respect to Christ. So if by overdress you mean turn up dressed in something more formal than jeans I assure you you are incorrect about this ridiculous generalization.

:harp::heaven:You are very kind to point out the innocent motives of people, thewanderer. I have compassion:angel1::grouphug: for anyone who perhaps is hurt because he or she feels others are “overdressed.” There is a classic, “happy” medium! The early Church was filled with a wonderful variety of people, just as we are today. Our intent is important, and that is something God will help us to understand.

So often, we never know who contributes many hours to help our less fortunate brethren. Some of them dress nicely out of respect for God’s house, so how can we judge them? Most importantly, we should welcome all people with open arms: the homeless, the poor, those challenged:crutches::stretcher: with all manner of illness.

All we can do is ask God about ourselves: “Am I judging someone else’s choices? Why?” I have rarely seen people “over-dressed” at Mass, but God our Father loves all who walk into His Church. Once we realize we are there to partake in His Divine Presence, surely we walk out wanting to share our joy with everyone we meet and hardly notice what they are wearing. God is great!
Kathryn Ann

 

[MissRose73]

I agree with you here. This is likely exactly what this young girl thought. That MissRose was showing her kindness when she noticed she was cold and offered her a wrap. She therefore may have learned a lesson in how to take notice of others in need and do what you can to help. She may have also learned to consider bringing a sweater next time.

I highly doubt though that she got any message, about modesty.

Personally, I have to ask though, which one of us hasn’t been caught underdressed for the temperature at some point in our lives? Who knows maybe she’d never been to an Easter Vigil before or didn’t realize she’d be outside. It was kind of MissRose to offer her a wrap to keep her warm, but I think sort of prideful if the action was meant to deliver some hidden lesson in modesty. Also, considering the fact she handed back the wrap upon entering the Church, where she would have been in front of the Blessed Sacrament, and other parishioners, I’m guessing that hidden message was lost.

My personal preference is that we don’t see bra straps or underclothes on people and I know that some hold to the ideas of…was it Pope Pius… that said a woman’s shirt should come to her elbows.

Now I’m certainly not saying that I hold to these exact standards, I’m just explaining where some get their standards from. I think a cap sleeve is nice, and not too deep of a neckline. I think it goes a little far when we see bare backs or spaghetti straps with bras showing, or strapless sundresses for Mass, but I also admit when shopping for Easter dresses this year for my own girls, it took a lot of work and expense(having to buy extra little shrugs etc.) to find ones that met all my standards and still looked fashionable to them. We did it, but it was certainly an exercise in persistence.

Anyways this was a long post to just say, I agree if the girl thought anything, it was probably that MissRose was kind to lend her her wrap and I would have hoped MissRose that it was your way of silently showing her that you took notice and cared that she was cold.

I was being kind and charitable towards the young lady who was showing signs of being cold standing outside. I hope she will learn from that experience for next year to bring a sweater, jacket, or some type wrap for standing outside for that part of the Easter Vigil Mass. I was not planning to teach her any lessons about modesty by offering the wrap nor was that my intention. If that was the case, I would’ve said to her to keep it through out Mass then give it to me before leaving. Even then if the young lady forgot to give it back, I would have not worried much as I had another wrap/shawl in my car for my future use.

I certainly hope she remembers that act of kindness by a woman who did not know her at all and remembers the words of St Matthew’s Gospel: …I was naked and you gave me clothing… least you did for someone you did for me… (but I know she was not naked but in need to keep warm) and/or the actions of St Martin of Tours who offered part of his cloak to a naked poor man.

 

[PPC]

i don’t care if self righteous snobs of any order are offended for calling them out on their bigotry. They have only themselves to blame.

The fact that Jesus is indeed half naked on the cross addresses their haughty attitudes.

Jesus did not take off His own clothes in order to make a fashion statement. Nakedness was part of the shame endured during death by crucifixion. The Romans stripped Him of His clothing.

Matthew 27:27-31; 35 NKJV
27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole garrison around Him. 28 And they stripped Him and put a scarlet robe on Him. 29 When they had twisted a crown of thorns, they put it on His head, and a reed in His right hand. And they bowed the knee before Him and mocked Him, saying, “Hail, King of the Jews!” 30 Then they spat on Him, and took the reed and struck Him on the head. 31 And when they had mocked Him, they took the robe off Him, put His own clothes on Him, and led Him away to be crucified.

35 Then they crucified Him, and divided His garments, casting lots, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet:
“They divided My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.”

I think that Revelation puts it rather succinctly:

Revelation 3:16-18 (NKJV)
16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I don’t think the way people dress (the ones that object to less than formal attire) that are listed in this thread can be honestly classified as immodest or disrespectful to Christ.

shorts and sandals and tank tops for example are not immodest or disrespectful. dresses above the knee are also acceptable as are shorts above the knee.

your definitions of immodesty and disrespect are false.

jeans and sneakers are also not immodest or disrespectful either.

I don’t know about others but I don’t believe that I, for example, said that any of the above were immodest or disrespectful.

I believe I also said in my post that if you gave an example of what you thought people were ‘condemning’, you would find that they were in fact not doing so. And I believe you have just proved my point.

The ‘you’ you address is exactly whom? It’s not I, and I do say that modest dress would be (note the word ‘would’ which is a ‘choice’, not ‘must’) something most people could achieve and honor God in doing. And I don’t say that shorts or sandals in themselves are immodest either. I’ve seen long skirts that cover every bit of the leg but have next to no back or front, so the word ‘dress’ or ‘long dress’ doesn’t necessarily mean it’s modest in and of itself. I think people have a little more common sense than you seem to want to give them credit for.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

however, those who dress up for church and are not in contempt on this thread should also think about WHY they dress up or overdress for church. is it because they want to honor god?or is it because they want to show off and are competing with others to show that they are somehow superior to their neighbors at church? or to somehow have respect of a kind by showing their status? or trying to impress others? you know…status symbols. keeping up with the joneses and/or competing with the joneses.

that is the truth about people who overdress at church. its a status symbol message to everyone else and it is for self advertisement rather than to honor the half naked christ on a cross.

‘That’s the TRUTH’, you say?

Wow. Just wow.

Well, you know, maybe in the heat of argument you just were trying to make a point. Maybe you didn’t realize how offensive it might appear to others that you just ASSUME anybody who ‘dresses differently’ from you is somehow sinning against God.

Maybe you want to rethink your statement. Because you know, up to a point, nobody here is denying that it’s wrong to make judgments about the heart of a person based on his appearance.

except. . .um. . .aren’t you doing exactly that YOURSELF? Think about it. Aren’t you** making a very uncharitable ASSUMPTION about other people based solely on their appearance?******

Now I do not, I repeat, DO NOT ‘assume’ that a person who wears what might be construed as even inappropriate clothing (a woman coming in wearing skimpy, midriff bearing clothing, a man coming in with tattered, dirty clothing) is doing so to show deliberate contempt. Because for all “I” know, that might be the only clothing they have. They might have just that day found the courage to go into the house of God and lay their hearts before him. That’s between them and God.

And I would hope as a Christian that if that WAS all they had that I would be the first to offer them more, not in “your clothing is awful, put on these things so you don’t shame us” but rather, “dear brother and sister, we all need each other, Please let me have the pleasure of helping you with your needs. Let’s go and find what you need most.”

And I also don’t assume that a man who walks into church wearing a suit, and a woman wearing a dress and hat, are there to say, “Look at us. We’re fancy. We’re better than you.” Because that suit may have belonged to the man’s brother who died in the war, and is worn for remembrance and gratitude for the brother’s sacrifice and to wear it to commemorate Christ’s sacrifice. And the woman may be wearing the dress and hat because she wishes to emulate Mary-like modesty and this is the way her parents and grandparents did so. Does she not have the right to dress in a way which honors God as she has been taught to do by the family she honors as well?

So who is really being ‘judgmental here’? I have seen far more criticism and attacks made on the basis of ‘appearance’ (at least in the last couple of pages) but it isn’t because the dress is judged too ‘casual.’ It’s the other way around.