A long and rather involved question

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In another one of the forums someone ranted about the evils of Vatican II. Please, I’m not trying to start that. I asked about references for the rant but it appears that a moderator deleted both his post and my question.

So, my question. If I remember corrected the Council of Trent would be like Vatican 0, where everything was laid out?

Vatican I had something to do with the Tridentine Mass?

Vatican II had to do with Ecumenicalism?

Can someone either explain some of this or point me in the right direction for answers?

The only thing I even think I know for sure is that the Pope (when he was still Cardinal Ratzinger) said that you cannot be pro-VII and anti-VI or vice versa. It gets so confusing.

Many thanks,

Bryan
 
In another one of the forums someone ranted about the evils of Vatican II. Please, I’m not trying to start that. I asked about references for the rant but it appears that a moderator deleted both his post and my question.

So, my question. If I remember corrected the Council of Trent would be like Vatican 0, where everything was laid out?

Vatican I had something to do with the Tridentine Mass?

Vatican II had to do with Ecumenicalism?

Can someone either explain some of this or point me in the right direction for answers?

The only thing I even think I know for sure is that the Pope (when he was still Cardinal Ratzinger) said that you cannot be pro-VII and anti-VI or vice versa. It gets so confusing.

Many thanks,

Bryan
Bryan,

Maybe some background information on Church Councils might be helpful for you.

First of all, there have been twenty-one Ecumenical Councils. The first being the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D. and the last being the Second Vatican Council.

A General or Ecumenical (from the Greek meaning “the inhabited world”) council takes place when the Bishops of the Universal Church gather with the Roman Pontiff presiding either personally or through his representative.

The decrees of a General or Ecumenical Council are an infallible witness to the Catholic rule of faith. For a council to rank as ecumenical a number of conditions must be fulfilled, of which the most important is its confirmation by the Roman Pontiff.

Such assemblies are not absolutely necessary for the government of the Church, but there are occasions when it may be both advisable and highly beneficial.

The Church’s infallible teaching authority is vested in the body Bishops joined with the Pope, and in the Pope himself.

As for your quote, the then Cardinal Ratzinger was correct. Understanding your need for some explanation, there are those who claim to be Catholic and reject Vatican II for various reasons. Most of these people, and I am speaking very generally here, come from a conservative, traditionalist point of view. There are others who, while claiming to be Catholic, take a very liberal stance and reject some or all of the previous Councils. One priest I know refers to the historical period before Vatican II as the “bad old days.”

As for the reasons why each Council was called you would have to do some research which is easy enough to do here at Catholic Answers.

If you look at my bio you will see that I regard myself as a Traditional Roman Catholic. By that I mean I accept all of the twenty-one Councils of the Catholic Church and all that the Church teaches.

The Church has a fascinating history throughout the last two thousand years. I encourage you to take the time and make it a personal study for yourself. It would be well worth your effort.
 
If I remember corrected the Council of Trent would be like Vatican 0, where everything was laid out?
There has never been a Council “where everything was laid out,” although some Councils “lay out” much more than others (Trent (1545-1563) was the 19th Council, but it was probably the most significant Council since the very first Council at Nicea in 325 AD).
Vatican I had something to do with the Tridentine Mass?
No. It was mainly concerned with clearly defining the primacy of the Pope. It taught against some trendy philosophical ideas of the day, while defining that faith and reason need never be in conflict. You may read the Council here:
vaxxine.com/pjm/vaticanI.htm
Vatican II had to do with Ecumenicalism?
Yes, to a large extent. The Council also reworked rules and discipline within the Church herself, and explained the role the Church plays in the modern world.

You may read the full Council here:
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/index.htm

A good summary is here:

therealpresence.org/eucharst/vat/clrp_vii.htm

There was a long time (307 years) between Trent and Vatican I. This is very unusual in Catholic history - typically each Century has at least one Council (the 12th and 13th Century each had *three *Councils). Only once before was there a multi-century gap between Councils (namely a 243-year gap between Constantinople IV and Lateran IV). Trent followed closely on the heels of Lateran V, which ended just 31 years before Trent was convened.
 
Bryan,

If you look at my bio you will see that I regard myself as a Traditional Roman Catholic. By that I mean I accept all of the twenty-one Councils of the Catholic Church and all that the Church teaches.

The Church has a fascinating history throughout the last two thousand years. I encourage you to take the time and make it a personal study for yourself. It would be well worth your effort.
Tomster,

Thank you. I am not yet Catholic, but based upon what you say then logic mandates when I am I must be a traditional otherwise the scriptural reasons for joining would fall apart.

Can you recommend a good book or two on Church History for me to start with?

Thanks again,

Bryan
 
You may read the Council here:
vaxxine.com/pjm/vaticanI.htm

You may read the full Council here:
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/index.htm

A good summary is here:

therealpresence.org/eucharst/vat/clrp_vii.htm

There was a long time (307 years) between Trent and Vatican I. This is very unusual in Catholic history - typically each Century has at least one Council (the 12th and 13th Century each had *three *Councils). Only once before was there a multi-century gap between Councils (namely a 243-year gap between Constantinople IV and Lateran IV). Trent followed closely on the heels of Lateran V, which ended just 31 years before Trent was convened.
Thanks David,
I will enjoy the reading!

Bryan
 
Tomster,

Thank you. I am not yet Catholic, but based upon what you say then logic mandates when I am I must be a traditional otherwise the scriptural reasons for joining would fall apart.

Can you recommend a good book or two on Church History for me to start with?

Thanks again,

Bryan
Bryan,

Based on your original post, if I were you, I would start with the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC). Follow the footnotes, biblical and historical. One papal encyclical I would really encourage you to read is “The Mystical Body of Christ” by Pope Pius XII. Follow the footnotes, historical and biblical, here as well. That should help you on your journey.

N.B. Tune in to “The Journey Home” program on EWTN which is hosted by Marcus Grodi. A lot of questions you may have regarding the Catholic Church will be answerd for you here.
 
Bryan,

Based on your original post, if I were you, I would start with the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC). Follow the footnotes, biblical and historical. One papal encyclical I would really encourage you to read is “The Mystical Body of Christ” by Pope Pius XII. Follow the footnotes, historical and biblical, here as well. That should help you on your journey.

N.B. Tune in to “The Journey Home” program on EWTN which is hosted by Marcus Grodi. A lot of questions you may have regarding the Catholic Church will be answerd for you here.
Will do. Thanks. Has anyone read Triumph by Crocker?
 
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