A lost gesture?

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ElPato

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Hi All,

I’m new to the Catholic Answers forums and thought this a fitting place to–hopefully–find an answer to a question that has been plaguing me for some time. Introductions aside, I’ll get right down to brass tacks: My father-in-law is a somewhat older Catholic and was raised in the Church pre-Vatican II. During the Consecration, at each ringing of the bells, he bows his head and points to his heart. What is he doing and why? Is this a lost practice/tradition?

As he is a man of few words, I’ve never been able to get what I consider a satisfactory answer out of him and it may be something he was just brought up doing because he was taught to do so (he was born in the '40s), so he may not even know the reasons behind this particular gesture. In my search for answer I’ve uncovered information about similar practices and gestures, but nothing near enough that I could deem it sufficient to satisfy my BURNING curiosity. Any information, answers or insight would be much appreciated.

Thanks!
 
Hello! Isn’t a pre Vatican II mass a Latin mass? If so, I found a Latin Mass missal online that was for masses in 1962. Although this may not answer the why, it may help lead you to it. Here it is sanctamissa.org/en/ Maybe you could ask another Catholic who is the same age as your father-in-law? I’m sorry i wasn’t much help, but I thought this would interest you. God bless you and pray for understanding perhaps?
 
There is no specific requirement for this in the mass but consider…
At this point, the consecration, The Bread and the Wine become Jesus Christ upon the Altar. Your Lord and King is now fully present - body blood soul and divinity - Does this not warrant some gesture of respect?

Think about the movies you might see where a king enters the room and everyone turns and bows. Your FIL is, IMHO, doing a similar thing being humble, submissive, respectful, and welcoming Our Lord.

Peace
James
 
When we went to Mass as kids, pre-Vatican II, it was in Latin and at the consecration we would tap our hearts three times while bells were rung as the host was lifted and then the chalice. We would say mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I was in the 8th grade when Vatican II ended and the changes in Mass took place, that was 50 years ago but I still tap my heart at Mass these days.
 
mountee said:
When we went to Mass as kids, pre-Vatican II, it was in Latin and at the consecration we would tap our hearts three times while bells were rung as the host was lifted and then the chalice. We would say mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I was in the 8th grade when Vatican II ended and the changes in Mass took place, that was 50 years ago but I still tap my heart at Mass these days.
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This is one of the things that I had come across in my own “research” of this particular gesture. Interestingly enough, I had considered that it may be a variation of this. The difference, however, is that my father-in-law doesn’t strike his breast three times, but once at three different intervals. I have been around many older Catholics and frequently attend Latin Masses (and have done so in many different places) and he is the only person–aside from my brother-in-law–I have ever seen do this. He was raised in Michigan, so is there a chance it could be a regional or “diocese specific” gesture?

Thank you all so much for the information. Everything helps but, like I said, this has just been driving me crazy with curiosity for years and I’ve always wanted to know if there’s an “official” reason behind the gesture or if it’s just something he does of his own accord.
 
Beating of the breast acknowledging one’s sinfulness in the actual presence of the Heavenly King. It is the least of gestures of humility before God. It is a good balance to remember that even in the New Testatment when John, the Beloved Disciple, comes face to face with Christ in full glory, he “falls down as though dead (Rev1:17)”.
 
This is an old tradition that I did as a child in my parish (very ethnic Italian). I know that it is not required in the OF Mass and I do not think it is a requirement for the layity in the EF mass.

Of note is that the better translation of the Nicene Creed has restored the lines “through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault”.
 
TheDoctor said:
This is an old tradition that I did as a child in my parish (very ethnic Italian). I know that it is not required in the OF Mass and I do not think it is a requirement for the layity in the EF mass.

Of note is that the better translation of the Nicene Creed has restored the lines “through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault”.
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Actually that is not in the Nicene Creed - but in the Confiteor

Confiteor Deo omnipotenti
et vobis, fratres,
quia peccavi nimis
cogitatione, verbo,
opere, et omissióne:
[All strike their breast]
mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
Ideo precor beatam Mariam semper Vírginem,
omnes Angelos et Sanctos,
et vos, fratres,
orare pro me ad Dominum Deum nostrum.

I confess to almighty God
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have greatly sinned
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done and in what I have failed to do,
[All strike their breast]
through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault;
therefore I ask blessed Mary ever-Virgin,
all the Angels and Saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.
 
JRKH said:
There is no specific requirement for this in the mass but consider…
At this point, the consecration, The Bread and the Wine become Jesus Christ upon the Altar. Your Lord and King is now fully present - body blood soul and divinity - Does this not warrant some gesture of respect?

Think about the movies you might see where a king enters the room and everyone turns and bows. Your FIL is, IMHO, doing a similar thing being humble, submissive, respectful, and welcoming Our Lord.
Peace
James
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Correct. I grew up with TLM. We were taught to strike our hearts 3 times at this point of the Consecration when the bells were rung as the Consecrated Body & Blood were raised.
The bells were rung 3 times when the Chalice & Consecrated Host was raised. The 3 times signified the Trinity.
 
tawny said:
Correct. I grew up with TLM. We were taught to strike our hearts 3 times at this point of the Consecration when the bells were rung as the Consecrated Body & Blood were raised.
The bells were rung 3 times when the Chalice & Consecrated Host was raised. The 3 times signified the Trinity.
Click to expand...
I grew up with the EF also, and we were not taught to strike our breasts and say “Mea culpa” (which means my fault) at the Consecration. We did that during the Confiteor-(-“Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa”) During the Consecration we struck our breasts and said “My Lord and My God” at each elevation.

Saying the Mea Culpas at the Consecration does not make sense. That is a worship point, not a penitential one.
 
At an OF parish growing up, the pastor taught us to strike our breast and say “My Lord and My God” after the bells rang during the elevation of the host and chalice. It is a way of acknowledging and expressing belief of the consubstantiation taking place at the Consecration.
 
CB_Catholic said:
I grew up with the EF also, and we were not taught to strike our breasts and say “Mea culpa” (which means my fault) at the Consecration. We did that during the Confiteor-(-“Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa”) During the Consecration we struck our breasts and said “My Lord and My God” at each elevation.

Saying the Mea Culpas at the Consecration does not make sense. That is a worship point, not a penitential one.
Click to expand...
I did not say in my post that I was taught to say “Mea Culpa” at the Consecration. Please read again; what I said was I was taught to strike my heart 3 times at the 3 bells of the raising of the Chalice & Host at the time of the Consecration. The 3 bells & striking of the heart 3 times signified the Trinity. The “Mea Culpa” is only said in the Confiteor with the striking of the heart 3 times.
 
tawny said:
I did not say in my post that I was taught to say “Mea Culpa” at the Consecration. Please read again; what I said was I was taught to strike my heart 3 times at the 3 bells of the raising of the Chalice & Host at the time of the Consecration. The 3 bells & striking of the heart 3 times signified the Trinity. The “Mea Culpa” is only said in the Confiteor with the striking of the heart 3 times.
Click to expand...
I did not read your post incorrectly. Yours is not the post I was referring to. Read Post #4. I attached on to your post by accident. Sorry.
 
CB_Catholic said:
I grew up with the EF also, and we were not taught to strike our breasts and say “Mea culpa” (which means my fault) at the Consecration. We did that during the Confiteor-(-“Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa”) During the Consecration we struck our breasts and said “My Lord and My God” at each elevation.

Saying the Mea Culpas at the Consecration does not make sense. That is a worship point, not a penitential one.
Click to expand...
This is what I remember, too.
 
I lower my eyes and bow my head to acknowledge that the King is now present and that I am a sinner before the Sacred. It doesn’t really have anything to do with the period of time we are now in, but only what our own heart dictates we do in love.
 
janeway529 said:
At an OF parish growing up, the pastor taught us to strike our breast and say “My Lord and My God” after the bells rang during the elevation of the host and chalice. It is a way of acknowledging and expressing belief of the consubstantiation taking place at the Consecration.
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CB Catholic says the same.

I grew up pre Vatican ll also. I was used to the action of striking my breast at the Confiteor and at the Consecration when the Bread and Wine were elevated. My Mom taught us to say “My Lord and My God” at that time. In fact, I think we are instructed to make a gesture of profound adoration at the Consecration. I continue to do this out of reverence for Jesus and the mystery taking place. He is my Lord and my God. I don’t know if we were no longer instructed about tapping the breast, but it seems right to me.

As for your Father-in-Law - I suspect that is what he is doing in some version represented here. I have seen men sort of make a fist as if to tap their breast, but with the index finger pointing a bit ahead of the other fingers. I may just look as if her is pointing.

I was startled at a Mass where I was a visitor when the whole congregation, said" My Lord and My God" out loud. Local custom I guess but I about jumped out of my skin! 🙂
 
janeway529 said:
At an OF parish growing up, the pastor taught us to strike our breast and say “My Lord and My God” after the bells rang during the elevation of the host and chalice. It is a way of acknowledging and expressing belief of the consubstantiation taking place at the Consecration.
Click to expand...
It’s Transubstantiation.
 
mountee said:
When we went to Mass as kids, pre-Vatican II, it was in Latin and at the consecration we would tap our hearts three times while bells were rung as the host was lifted and then the chalice. We would say mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I was in the 8th grade when Vatican II ended and the changes in Mass took place, that was 50 years ago but I still tap my heart at Mass these days.
Click to expand...
I’m 58 and recall when the mass had latin and I do the same thing as you.There was a reason for the gester, but can’t recall the reason why.
 
What you can tap your heart. cool. I bow my head, but now I’m tapping my heart too.
 
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