A Lutheran with a question

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themattman

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So since I am a Lutheran, I don’t understand why and what the Catholic faith believes. I have reached out to others and have some understandings, but not very much. So with that said, I am looking to get a Catholic bible and the Catholic Catechism in hopes for more understanding. Is there a good bible to start with? And I have heard the mass has changed. What changed?
Thank you
Matthew
 
themattman said:
So since I am a Lutheran, I don’t understand why and what the Catholic faith believes. I have reached out to others and have some understandings, but not very much. So with that said, I am looking to get a Catholic bible and the Catholic Catechism in hopes for more understanding. Is there a good bible to start with? And I have heard the mass has changed. What changed?
Thank you
Matthew
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The Ignatius study bible is good, but I don’t think you will find a lot of difference, except that your Protestant Bible is missing some of the books in the OT.

Your study of the Catechism will help, and you can post your questions here. Since the Lutheran faith came out of Catholicism,you will find that there are many similarities.
 
The mass didn’t really change, but we have a new translation to more accurately reflect the original Latin. Some of the more noticeable changes in wording are the response to the priest, who says, “May the Lord be with you.” We used to respond “And also with you.” Now we say, “And with your spirit.”

Shortly before receiving Holy Eucharist, we used to say “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed.” Now we say, “Lord, I am not worthy that You should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed.” I like that one - the Biblical reference is more obvious.
But you can find all of them by googling it
 
You may get a lot more out of speaking with someone in person. Consider contacting a local Catholic church and attending some of their RCIA [adult education] classes.

You can ask questions as they come up, etc.
 
I have found this Online Catechism to be an excellent way to quickly look up things. You might find it useful too.
One caution though…Don’t use the search function at the top of the page. That one is for the entire site. Scroll down tot he bottom of the page and there is a search function for the Catechism itself.

And like others have said, feel free to bring questions here. Many great folks to help give good answers and references.

Peace
James
 
The Catechism is the main reference for our beliefs. When I converted 2 years ago from Lutheran (ELCA), I read it front to back.

Some folks view the Catechism more as a reference (which it also is, quite excellent actually) and prefer Catholicism for Dummies. Don’t let that title fool you, it is a highly regarded book for teaching the faith and may be a better starting point for you.

Both can be found in bookstores or online and are inexpensive.
 
guanophore said:
The Ignatius study bible is good, but I don’t think you will find a lot of difference, except that your Protestant Bible is missing some of the books in the OT.
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May I add that the Ignatius Study Bible (Second Edition) is the RSV-CE (RSV, Catholic Edition).

How Protestant Bibles came to be smaller than the original Bible is interesting (at least to me). Briefly, the original Old Testament consists of 46 writings from the Greek Septuagint, which the Catholic Church received from Jesus and the Apostles. The New Testament consists of 27 of the Church’s own writings. Martin Luther preferred the Hebrew canon, which eliminated any writing in Greek (and also eliminated 2 Maccabees and its doctrine of purification of the soul after death, which didn’t fit with Luther’s new doctrines). Luther placed the Greek writings that had no existing equivalent in Hebrew in a separate appendix between the OT and the NT in his German translation of 1534. He labeled the appendix “The end of the books of the Old Testament” and wrote prefaces explaining why he did not consider these writings Scripture. The KJV published in 1611 also followed Luther’s placement of these writings – which Luther and other Protestants call Apocrypha – in an appendix. In 1827, they were eliminated from Protestant Bibles altogether by the British and Foreign Bible Society.

Luther also rejected Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation from his canon, placed them in an appendix at the end of the NT, and wrote prefaces explaining his opinion. His followers did not allow the cuts to the NT to stand, but permitted the OT cuts. Again, these books were not eliminated entirely from Luther’s German Bible, but both the rejected OT and NT writings were placed in appendices with the pages unnumbered so readers would know, together with his prefaces, that he did not consider them Scripture – and his reasons.

The Dead Sea Scrolls contain Hebrew originals of some of the rejected OT writings. The Greek was a translation from the Hebrew, but some Hebrew wrtings did not survive, and their translation into Greek was rejected by the Jews and subsequently, centuries later, by Luther. The fact that the Septuagint was adopted by the Church and was used to convert many Jews no doubt contributed to its rejection by the rabbis.

So glad you have an interest in the teachings of the Catholic Church. You’ll find Catholic Answers very helpful, the library as well as the forum and other resources.
 
lutherlic said:
The Catechism is the main reference for our beliefs. When I converted 2 years ago from Lutheran (ELCA), I read it front to back.

Some folks view the Catechism more as a reference (which it also is, quite excellent actually) and prefer Catholicism for Dummies. Don’t let that title fool you, it is a highly regarded book for teaching the faith and may be a better starting point for you.

Both can be found in bookstores or online and are inexpensive.
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Thanks! I have a catechism, but it’s not exactly light reading. I’ll probably find Catholicism for Dummies helpful. 👍
 
Izdaari said:
Thanks! I have a catechism, but it’s not exactly light reading. I’ll probably find Catholicism for Dummies helpful. 👍
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There is also a “Compendium” for the Catechism - that might be useful and a bit easier to read.

Peace
James
 
My husband is Lutheran, and I’m a Catholic (have been all my life.) You’re not going to find that we’re really all that different in most points of doctrine, but the core one is that we believe in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist. I occasionally go to his church, and was frankly quite startled when the pastor and congregation were reciting the identical Nicene Creed I have recited all my life.

We’re pretty close in beliefs here. Remember, Luther was a disaffected Catholic monk! It’s also my understanding that the Lutherans and Anglicans now recognize each others’ communion as valid and can receive communion at either church.

As you start your research into the Catholic Church, I think you’re going to be captured by the feeling of “but wait–there’s more!” instead of “that’s all, folks!”

May the happy day arrive when all of us are restored to the Faith as one! I’m hopeful that it is possible, and pray that it’s sooner rather than later.
 
Hello:

Thought that I would offer you a suggestion or two. I don’t know if they will help, but they certainly can’t hurt.

As someone already mentioned, you can read Catholicism for Dummies, which is an excellent book. As a matter of fact, it’s one of the books that I’m reading at the present time.

The Authors of Catholicism for Dummies (Rev. John Trigilio PhD, ThD and Rev. Kenneth Brighenti, PhD), have written several other books in the Dummies series, which are also excellent.

They are:

The Catholic Mass For Dummies, John Paul II For Dummies, Women In The Bible For Dummies, and Saints For Dummies.

I have all of those books and they are well worth having!

Rev. Trigilio and Rev. Brighenti also wrote:

The Everything Bible Book: From Genesis to Revelation, All You Need to Understand the Old and New Testaments.

I ordered it the other day, however, it hasn’t been delivered yet, and so I can’t say much about it one way or the other. The authors did a good job writing the other books, and so I’m fairly certain that the Everything Bible Book will be outstanding as well (All the reviews that I read were positive, with the exception of one).

Insofar as the Catholic Catechism goes, I am currently reading:

“The Complete Idiot’s Guide To The Catholic Catechism”.

Don’t let the title mislead you… The Idiot’s Guide is another excellent source of information, and it’s a good place to start because it simplifies a complex subject. Study doesn’t end there (the “Official” Catholic Catechism is what you’ll eventually want to read), but the Idiot’s Guide is a good introduction.

As far as Bibles go I have several.

The Douay-Rheims Bible, which is the Latin Vulgate and was the “official” translation of the Bible that the Catholic Church used for hundreds and hundreds of years up until the Second Vatican Council (which took place in the early to mid 1960’s). The language is not as “modern” as newer bibles, but it’s a good one to have.

The Ignatius Catholic Study Bible is also good, however, it only covers the New Testament and not the old. Nonetheless, it has a lot of footnotes and cross references which are invaluable.

I also have the Saint Joseph New American Bible (which includes the Old Testament). Not as many footnotes/cross references, but the language is more “modern”, and easier to comprehend.

I also have the Catholic Bible Concordance, which is another invaluable tool. Any quote that I can think of that’s in the Bible is in the Concordance as well, and it tells me exactly where it can be found in scripture.

Hope that this information will be of some help!

God Bless
 
themattman said:
So since I am a Lutheran, I don’t understand why and what the Catholic faith believes. I have reached out to others and have some understandings, but not very much. So with that said, I am looking to get a Catholic bible and the Catholic Catechism in hopes for more understanding. Is there a good bible to start with? And I have heard the mass has changed. What changed?
Thank you
Matthew
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you can begin by accessing both the Bible and the Catechism for free online at www.usccb.org
The Mass has not changed one whit. The English translation of SOME prayers of the Mass has changed to make it agree more with the official Latin original words, so that in turn it corresponds more closely to the scripture from which those prayers derive.

to speed up your study, search on topics of interest to you in the forums. the google search is easiest to use.

welcome to the forums.

If you want to purchase a Catholic bible the RSV-CE (Catholic Edition) may correspond more closely to the bible you have been using.

I also recommend Catholicism for Dummies as a great first book, because it answers not only questions about belief, but why we do what we do.
 
One caution - don’t confuse ‘the idiot’s guide to the Catholic Catechism’ with ‘the idiot’s guide to Catholicism’. I’ve read bits of the latter - avoid like the plague!
 
themattman said:
So since I am a Lutheran, I don’t understand why and what the Catholic faith believes. I have reached out to others and have some understandings, but not very much. So with that said, I am looking to get a Catholic bible and the Catholic Catechism in hopes for more understanding. Is there a good bible to start with? And I have heard the mass has changed. What changed?
Thank you
Matthew
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‘The Catholic faith’ doesn’t believe anything. It can’t. A concept has no life unless it is personified. It’s Catholic people who make up the community of the faithful and who have communal and individual beliefs. Catholics own their Catholic faith. Even so, such thinking implies that there is a unified body of Catholics who have a universal way of life- which is contradicted by a fact as simple as the existence of party politics in America. You have Catholics on both sides of issues the Church has declared morally intrinsic to the faith - birth control, abortion, capital punishment, etc.
In my opinion, the mass offers the truth in the form of sacrament. We receive Jesus, who was completely undivided. Speaking for myself, I hope he gives you more understanding.

When you say you have gotten not very much understanding, how can you be sure about how much that really is? A statement like yours indicates to me that me that you want full understanding, and you want to know you have full understanding. Full understanding of the Catholic faith is a mystery solved in community, and, importantly, according to community rituals and sacraments. One could argue persuasively that there is no full understanding of the Catholic faith, but rather, full participation in Catholic life.

I believe it was in his book “Crossing the Threshold of Faith,” that PJPII was asked “How does the Pope pray?” His answer as I recall was “Ask the Holy Spirit!”
 
Michael19682 said:
Even so, such thinking implies that there is a unified body of Catholics who have a universal way of life- which is contradicted by a fact as simple as the existence of party politics in America. You have Catholics on both sides of issues the Church has declared morally intrinsic to the faith - birth control, abortion, capital punishment, etc.
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Canon Law of the Catholic Church

Can. 750 . A person must believe with divine and Catholic faith all those things contained in the word of God, written or handed on, that is, in the one deposit of faith entrusted to the Church, and at the same time proposed as divinely revealed either by the solemn magisterium of the Church or by its ordinary and universal magisterium which is manifested by the common adherence of the Christian faithful under the leadership of the sacred magisterium; therefore all are bound to avoid any doctrines whatsoever contrary to them. Each and every thing which is proposed definitively by the magisterium of the Church concerning the doctrine of faith and morals, that is, each and every thing which is required to safeguard reverently and to expound faithfully the same deposit of faith, is also to be firmly embraced and retained; therefore, one who rejects those propositions which are to be held definitively is opposed to the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.

Can. 752 Although not an assent of faith, a religious submission of the intellect and will must be given to a doctrine which the Supreme Pontiff or the college of bishops declares concerning faith or morals when they exercise the authentic magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim it by definitive act; therefore, the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid those things which do not agree with it.
 
Michael19682 said:
‘The Catholic faith’ doesn’t believe anything. It can’t. A concept has no life unless it is personified. It’s Catholic people who make up the community of the faithful and who have communal and individual beliefs. Catholics own their Catholic faith. Even so, such thinking implies that there is a unified body of Catholics who have a universal way of life- which is contradicted by a fact as simple as the existence of party politics in America. You have Catholics on both sides of issues the Church has declared morally intrinsic to the faith - birth control, abortion, capital punishment, etc.
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I find this section of your post to be very disturbing.
How can you say that “The Catholic Faith doesn’t believe anything” when we profess together at every mass, the Creed. When there is a wonderful book called the Catechism. when there are Catholic Dogmas that require our assent.

Yes it is true that Catholics believing these things is what gives them life, but it is the “One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Faith” that holds to these teachings.

Unfortunately it is also true that there are those who call themselves Catholics and openly rebel against or simply ignore Church teaching. They do so at their own peril.
May God grant them humility and wisdom…

But because such “fallen away” Catholics exist, they do not justify your assertion that the Catholic faith believes nothing…

Peace
James
 
themattman, get a copy of 10 part series Catholicism by Father Barron. It’s a five DVD set. Also, get the corresponding book he writes on the same subject. You can get the Catholic Catechism but its a big book. I was born, baptized, confirmed, Sunday School Teacher, usher, in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LCMS). I left the LCMS in 1981 because i had had enough of the 12 years of nasty schism between “conservatives” and “moderates” in that church. I did not know who was right then and to this day, I still don’t know who was right but I do know that it was a lot of people acting like the devil to defend what they thought was their heavenly cause. The LCMS service is set up similar to the Catholic Mass so if you go to a Mass, you won’t be too surprised. The “Catholic Thing” as Father Barron describes is not a criticism of other parts of Orthodox Christianity as all here believe the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. But I agree with Father Barron that Protestant Churches to include Lutherans do not embrace the doctrine to its fullness and don’t see all the way down to the bottom to draw out all of its implications. It’s a 2,000 year old church with a rich history that has been both glorious and notorious at times. Predictably, you’ll have to understand that Martin Luther is not a very big name in the Catholic Church, but then I’ve sat in many a LCMS service where the Pastor politely but firmly trashed “the problem that is Rome.” Lutherans believe in Sola Gratia, Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura. As Catholics, we take it one step further and wish to integrate the actions of our deeds to the testament of our faith. If Christ had not raised the dead, healed the sick, fed the hungry, His words would have been just that, words. It all has to work together so to speak. Don’t worry, it’s the same Father, Son, Holy Spirit. We celebrate Christmas and Easter just like the Lutherans. We have seven sacraments to the Lutherans two. Lutherans believe in “real presence” in the Eucharist, Catholics believe in transubstantiation. The secular and religious historical records establish the Roman Catholic Church as the First Church and Peter was commissioned by Christ as its first leader. We believe that in its structure, liturgy and doctrine, it is the true Church of Christ. I don’t say that smugly, with conceit, or as a personal insult to you. There’s a very good reason the Catholic Church takes this position and I encourage you to conduct your own independent study. We adore Mary the Mother of our Savior, we do not worship her. We ask that she would pray for us in the same manner you would ask a close friend of yours to pray for you. The preistly vestments are a continuity of over 1,500 years oh history. The Lutherans do have much to offer but I could not stand the fighting way back when. I’m at home now in the Catholic Church and I must confess to you in all honesty, I’ve been more at peace with myself as a Catholic than as a Lutheran. Hope these answers help and all the best in your inquiries. Keep asking questions, we’ll try to answer and asks the same questions over in the Apologetics Area of this board, you’ll get some good answers there too!
 
Jim_Dandy said:
Canon Law of the Catholic Church
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Can. 750 . A person must believe with divine and Catholic faith all those things contained in the word of God
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Why must he believe it? You will answer, no doubt, because if he does not then he can go to Hell. I call your attention to the true teaching of the Church on hell: no one goes [to hell] unless he wants to. If you think that someone angry enough to want momentary capital vengeance on a murderous thug also wants to go to Hell himself, you just might be mistaken. No one is perfect, save Christ himself.
therefore, one who rejects those propositions which are to be held definitively is opposed to the doctrine of the Catholic Church.
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I submit to you that there is a difference between the doctrine of the Catholic Church and the Church itself. If you need to be a perfect imitation of the doctrine to be considered a part of the Church, then you must deny the possibility of personal sin for all, for all have sin. 1 John 1:8-10.

Jesus said: “Be perfect, just as your Heavenly Father is perfect.” Unless someone tells me otherwise this must mean 1) that I am not currently perfect and need God’s grace and 2) the statement is an exhortation to be ever vigilant in pursuit of perfection.

Living in community requires forgiveness. Christ was perfect and he forgave all. Part of the fortuitous logic of forgiveness is that I can forgive out of recognition that I am not perfect. With the advent of fundamentalism a real challenge has arisen for me to be forgiving in areas where I am relatively more perfect. Some of these think that once they have perfected some foible, this means it is time to condemn all those with this same foible, as if they themselves are immune to criticism on that ‘dimension’ of their life.

It makes no sense to pretend the Church is without sin, or to deny access to it to all who have sin. Likewise, I should always have the freedom to choose those with whom I associate. It’s the judgmental part I can do without.
 
Michael19682 said:
‘The Catholic faith’ doesn’t believe anything. It can’t. A concept has no life unless it is personified. It’s Catholic people who make up the community of the faithful and who have communal and individual beliefs. Catholics own their Catholic faith. Even so, such thinking implies that there is a unified body of Catholics who have a universal way of life- which is contradicted by a fact as simple as the existence of party politics in America. You have Catholics on both sides of issues the Church has declared morally intrinsic to the faith - birth control, abortion, capital punishment, etc.
In my opinion, the mass offers the truth in the form of sacrament. We receive Jesus, who was completely undivided. Speaking for myself, I hope he gives you more understanding.

When you say you have gotten not very much understanding, how can you be sure about how much that really is? A statement like yours indicates to me that me that you want full understanding, and you want to know you have full understanding. Full understanding of the Catholic faith is a mystery solved in community, and, importantly, according to community rituals and sacraments. One could argue persuasively that there is no full
understanding of the Catholic faith, but rather, full participation in Catholic life.

I believe it was in his book “Crossing the Threshold of Faith,” that PJPII was asked “How
does the Pope pray?” His answer as I recall was “Ask the Holy Spirit!”
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Thank you for your thought provoking comment. To answer the question of I don’t have very much understanding of the catholic faith. What I mean is, I feel the holy spirit telling me that you need and desire true communion with God. Yes I do wish for that. I have felt that at times
The Lutheran faith at times has been good for me… But it seems that it’s when I am worshiping in the traditional way, in which is very close to be like a catholic mass. So it’s that strong desire that I want and need for true worship.
The other issue I have is that my spouse is not a fan of the Catholic faith, mostly because of what she has been told by others. So this will be another issue that I feel if this is a true God thing then he will be there walking with her, and helping her understand.
Finally this would be a great help wright off. Help me understand and give me some scripture to why it seems that you ( Catholics pray to Mary and the saints)… This is the one thing as a protestNt we are told all the time that you Catholics are idol worshippers. So please make sure you understand that I am not Attacking you. I just need some backing to help defend the Catholic faith.
Thank you.
 
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