A Major New Study of Religion in the US Has the following to Say About Mormons:

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It also forgot that mormons are simply the nicest people in the entire world.
Nice, originally the name sake of an - if I recall correctly -* Italian *merchant city, through which many luxurious goods entered into Christendom from various other parts of the world. Eventually, the goods from Nice gained such renown that people began to refer to fine things as being “nice,” i.e., of or like those merchant goods from the city of Nice. Later the term broadened to include refined people ; however, it retained the difference of what something outwardly appears to be, independent of the inward or inner character(-istics) of the subject. Being “nice” has no value in virtue, anymore than being polite does, as both are for the sake of the temporal order, and rewarded by it (i.e., those who “have their reward.”). Being nice or polite is beneficial in the here and now, even economically and politically expedient. Elevating such characteristics to theological value, significance or importance would lead to a Pharisee’s error of assuming wealth or other accidents have salvific value or signify divine favour, etc. It relies on placing an exagerated and inapropriate faith in human appearances. Very often we are tempted to supress Truth for the sake of being “nice” or “polite,” which is, of course, an error, for we commit an injustice by depriving people of the Truth, and we in some way ignore our duty to bear witness to the Truth, who is Christ.
I have enormous respect for the LDS church, and it drives me crazy when you see anti-LDS posts up here.
It’s crazy to imagine that a Catholic forum would have any reason to confuse or mislead people into imagining that Mormonism, which explicitly denies and attacks Our Lord’s Divinity, is somehow a good.

Pax,
Tim
 
This sounds like the arguments about who has the best Saints, Catholics or Eastern Orthodox. It is petty and is not allowed on this forum per fiat by admins.

The facts are as stated, saints were members of the early church and is stated in the New Testament. Catholic Saints are the exceptional examples of true holiness on earth. They serve as many things for us to commune with them.

Enough said, move on from this issue; it is not appropriate.
First of all I’m not sure who appointed you overseer of CAF. I think we have moderators who fill that role. Secondly, my point wasn’t who has the best saints, but rather what constitutes a saint? Ultimately, all who are in heaven are saints. But on this earth the term saint should not be cheapened to apply to anyone solely because they are a member of an organization. That includes the Catholic Church.
 
JeanMichael,

You come across as rather sanctimonious…the Middle East also does not promote monogamy…

If you want to see some of the original teachings of Mormonism, and to give you a better insight why we react to it the way we do, you can check out Lax’s post 138 on ‘Either Catholics or Mormons have it right’. The crux of the issue is the Roman Catholic priesthood, and the literal denial of any academic documentation of the early Church.

You say why I refer back to the priesthood…the concept of priesthood is radically different from the 2000 year tradition vs that of Mormonism, and our priesthood is the reason we are corrupt and an abomination.

So it means God made a big mistake with Christ…He didn’t set up the Church right.

I went into a Mormon bookstore totally unaware of its construct. I picked up two books, one by the actual teachings and doctrines of Joseph Smith, the other the probable abridged version of ‘The Pearl of Great Price’…and it was shocking. It was not the true spirit of God speaking, its references to the Roman Church, the great abomination, and the protestants its whore daughters.
 
It’s crazy to imagine that a Catholic forum would have any reason to confuse or mislead people …

Pax,
Tim
Tim,

Yet your post did exactly that, inasmuch as Mormons confirm and attest to our Lord’s divinity, and that He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, is the Word, is the Rock, is the Holy One of Israel, is God the Son, is Alpha and Omega, is “Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace”, and is the Redeemer and Savior of all the world who will let Him be so.
 
Tim,

Yet your post did exactly that, inasmuch as Mormons confirm and attest to our Lord’s divinity, and that He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, is the Word, is the Rock, is the Holy One of Israel, is God the Son, is Alpha and Omega, is “Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace”, and is the Redeemer and Savior of all the world who will let Him be so.
Please don’t practice sophistry with me, it is of no avail. Would you fly in a plane wherein you knew that its primary engine had even one vital and necessary part replaced with some substitute, or removed all together ? You would not, as that would ensure your death, and all those on the plane, as you would not warm them (lest the flight not depart, thereby removing your opportunity to take the chance of flying regardless). Now, you would be called thoughtless if you boarded the plane anyways, though you knew this, and be charged (even though you be dead) afterward for failing to save your own self in one hand, and all the other passengers and crew further, on the other. The former recklessness, being inexcusable, would incur the indignation of all mankind, the latter, damnation by the courts for at least manslaughter, again, even though you and they all be dead, justice demands something nonetheless. You had opportunity to save yourself and others, and you failed to. That plane may well be nice in appearance and look perfectly good, but it is a useless waste for even all that if but one vital piece be missing.

My best friend may well be damning himself to hell thanks to this Mormonism, wherein he has retained but one certain teaching of that fallacious belief, and that is his adament belief, assertion and certainty that “Jesus is not God,” which thing he most heart-breakenly trumpeted before a crowd of our common friends. He could be (and is) nice and polite, and certainly the best friend I have ever had in earth ; however, none of this excuses denying the one Name by which we must be saved, JESUS. This utter depravity of his has but only one source : Mormonism, for even non-Christians do not so lightly or boastfully make such a claim, though an atheist (in his hatred) might.

Pax,
Tim
 
I am very shocked to learn that your survey of Christians did not include Catholics such as Pope John Paul II, Blessed Padre Pio, Blessed Mother Theresa and the like. Your survey lacks “truthfulness” and appears to be biased and uninformed of what constitutes a Christian. That said, from what the little information gathered here on this forum, the survey biased its categories selectively which lacks or falls short of any credence of Truth to the other faiths surveyed especially the Catholic faith. Had they surveyed the Catholic Church and its practicing members and longevity, their jaws would of dropped from the lifestyles of Catholics and Martyrs, that do not compare to their survey agenda.

I have a first cousin who is a cloistered nun. If you understood what these cloistered Christians do for you and me, you will find your false assessment a far cry from biblical truths.

The battle these cloistered nuns fight on our behalf both spiritually and by charity without any monetary or public (acknowledgement) rewards far exceeds the part time missionaries. Cloistered religious are not by any means the only way Catholics love and worship God. It would be incorrect to generalize a cloistered lifestyle as the only way Catholics serve God. We are many members of different charitable ministries world wide serving God’s people. A task that would overwhelm any one survey, which would spend a lifetime trying to survey these Catholic ministries in one category.
zerinus;7286078]No we don’t. We think the best way to serve God is not to live a cloistered lifestyle, but to be actively engaged in the community.
That is your LDS opinion, I can assure the Catholic faith follows the teachings of Jesus Christ that is why not all are called to this Ministry of celibacy. Celibacy was practiced by the apostle Paul and others, including those who were married later took this vow of celibacy. Celibacy is biblical, besides our Catholic East side have married clergy, so your opinion of the Catholic Church falls short of any Truth.
Matthew 19:10
[His] disciples said to him, “If that is the case of a man with his wife,** it is better not to marry.” 11
He answered,
“Not all can accept [this] word, 8 but only those to whom that is granted. **12
Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; **some, because they have renounced marriage 9 for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it.” **
Contrary to your LDS belief, there are virgin priests viewed from heaven also;
Revelations 14:4
These are they who were not defiled with women; they are virgins 3 and these are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been ransomed as the firstfruits of the human race for God and the Lamb.
5
**On their lips no deceit 4 has been found; they are unblemished. **
Genesis contradicts the LDS church teachings of marriage, because God ordained “One man and One woman” to joined as one, never two, three or more as your founders took on more than one wife, and some LDS members continue to do today. I wonder if your survey included this truth of your LDS faith on taking multiple wives to one husband? I don’t’ think your LDS doctrine has taken the literal text of Genesis revelations from God between one man and one woman.
This scripture summarizes our Catholic diversity of ministries which are not limited to one type of missionary but many;
Ephesians 4:10
The one who descended is also the one who ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.
11
4 **And he gave some as apostles, others as prophets, others as evangelists, others as pastors and teachers,
12
to equip the holy ones for the work of ministry, 5 for building up the body of Christ, **13
until we all attain to the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, 6 to the extent of the full stature of Christ,
14
so that we may no longer be infants, tossed by waves and swept along by every wind of teaching arising from human trickery, from their cunning in the interests of deceitful scheming.
15
Rather, living the truth in love, we should grow in every way into him who is the head, Christ, 7
16
**from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, with the proper functioning of each part, brings about the body’s growth and builds itself up in love. **
Celibacy as a vocation is not considered a virtue in Mormonism. We believe one can serve God better by raising a righteous family than by choosing a celibate way of life. We take literally the word of the Lord in Genesis that “it is not good for man to be alone” (Genesis 2:18).
 
Tim,
Perhaps you needed to clarify what your friend meant. Sometimes people think of the “Trinity” when they think of the word, “God”; sometimes they think of Heavenly Father or God the Father. Sometimes they may make a distinction between the words “God the Father” and “the Son of God”. That does not mean they don’t think of “God the Son” or the “Son of God” as “God with us”–but it may mean that they are making a distinction and differentiation between a Trinitarian belief and a belief that Those Two are indeed completely Separate Persons though One in “mind” (like-minded) and will and omniscience and omnipotence.

Maybe if you clarified what your friend was saying, you would not have such an animosity toward what he was trying to express in a different way than you have been taught.
 
Gabriel of 12,

It seems you may have misunderstood. No one answered your question about whether Catholics are studied in the book by the Harvard professor and a colleague. Here is a review of the book, which shows that Catholics were indeed included in the study:

“Putnam and Campbell see a symptom of profound change in the national character. Using data drawn from two large surveys, the authors plumb these changes. The data show that the tempestuous sixties shook faith in religion and that the seventies and eighties incubated a strong resurgence of devotion. But the two most recent decades add another twist, as young Americans have abandoned the pews in record numbers. Still, despite recent erosion of religious commitment, Americans remain a distinctively devout people. And devotion affects life far from the sanctuary: Putnam and Campbell parse numbers that identify religious Americans as more generous, more civically engaged, and more neighborly than their secularly minded peers. But the analysis most likely to stir debate illuminates how religion has increasingly separated Republicans from Democrats, conservatives from progressives. Readers may blame the Christian Right for this new cultural fissure, but survey statistics mark liberal congregations as the most politicized. But whether looking at politics or piety, the authors complement their statistical analysis with colorful vignettes, humanizing their numbers with episodes from the lives of individual Protestants and Catholics, Jews and Mormons. An essential resource for anyone trying to understand twenty-first-century America. --Bryce Christensen”
 
First of all I’m not sure who appointed you overseer of CAF. I think we have moderators who fill that role. Secondly, my point wasn’t who has the best saints, but rather what constitutes a saint?
I think he has a point. Your argument is degenerating into my saint is better than your saint.
Ultimately, all who are in heaven are saints.
Paul called people here on earth saints.
But on this earth the term saint should not be cheapened to apply to anyone solely because they are a member of an organization.
Sorry Steve, but that is the way it was in the early church.
 
Tim,
Perhaps you needed to clarify what your friend meant. Sometimes people think of the “Trinity” when they think of the word, “God”; sometimes they think of Heavenly Father or God the Father. Sometimes they may make a distinction between the words “God the Father” and “the Son of God”. That does not mean they don’t think of “God the Son” or the “Son of God” as “God with us”–but it may mean that they are making a distinction and differentiation between a Trinitarian belief and a belief that Those Two are indeed completely Separate Persons though One in “mind” (like-minded) and will and omniscience and omnipotence.

Maybe if you clarified what your friend was saying, you would not have such an animosity toward what he was trying to express in a different way than you have been taught.
Perhaps, Parker, if the Mormon religion did not insinuate and impart such noxious sophistry and word-playing to its followers, all those souls would not have had to suffer hearing blasphemy, though if any one good came of the scandalous spectacle, is that each and every person present there knows now for certain that Mormonism does not believe Jesus to be God, which one lie is the only thing my friend could demand for belief by all the others then present.

As for the incredulous demand on your part that I, in my part, should have demanded clarification from my friend to such a simple statement as openly, publicly denying the Divinity of Jesus in the simplest, clearest form in which it could possibly, even humanly, be expressed, I request you consult the dictionary for the meaning of absurd. He could not have stated his belief any clearer, and hence demanding “clarification” on that point would only have invited sophistry to evade the plain summation he had already, so brazenly and obviously, made.

If someone were to trumpet that a jet is not an airplane, would demanding “clarification” result in his ultimately arguing that jets are airplanes ? Certainly not.

Pax,
Tim
 
Tim,

Then either your friend was not a Mormon, or does not know what his church teaches and ought to keep mum on a subject he knows nothing about.
 
First of all we (Mormons) are saints. Secondly, although I am sure St Francis and Mother Theresa are virtuous and saintly people, and will receive a great reward from God in heaven, I don’t think God judges people by your criteria. People serve God in various way and in different capacities; and each has its own place and is equally important. The head cannot not say to the foot “I have no need of thee,” or the other way round (1 Corinthians 12:20-21). According to your criteria, Mother Theresa has a higher station before God than Peter or John. I don’t think so.
What criteria? You are correct in that we are all called to different vocations and directions in life and I certainly believe that there are many un-named saints walking around today. I have no idea whether or not Mother Theresa will have a higher station than anyone else. My point is that sainthood comes through living, as close as possible, a Christ-like life. That life is more evident in certain people than it is in others. Regardless, it does not come through belonging to a particular organization.
 
Tim,

Then either your friend was not a Mormon, or does not know what his church teaches and ought to keep mum on a subject he knows nothing about.
How a person could be made to attend your “church” every Sunday, for hours on end, for year after year, and yet still confidently walk away certain that Jesus is not who He is, namely, Blessed God Almighty, is not any fault of his, but of your church. Your theologies, your philosophies, succeeded only in debauching him.

Furthermore, the only people who need to be keeping a “mum” on a subject they know nothing about is your church in regards to Christ Jesus our Lord and God.

Pax,
Tim
 
I think he has a point. Your argument is degenerating into my saint is better than your saint.
It takes two to have an argument, zerinus. :rolleyes: And I really don’t care what he thinks.
Paul called people here on earth saints.
Yes, those that practiced the faith of the Apostles, but not those who rejected that faith. People do not become saints by self-proclamation. It actually does matter what they believe and how they live their lives.
Sorry Steve, but that is the way it was in the early church.
No need to be sorry. I would agree completely, based upon what I said above.
 
“Alas” The truth comes out. The Op’s opinion of this survey was not forthcoming and deceives with the pretense that such a survey dubbed the LDS church falsely over all the other faiths surveyed;

“Mormons are among the most devout religious groups in the country.
Mormons are among those most likely to keep their childhood faith as adults.
Mormons are unusually giving.
Mormons are relatively friendly to other religious groups.
Mormons are among the most likely to believe that one true religion exists, but also that those outside their faith can attain salvation or reach “heaven.”—Sources: 1, 2.”

As I quoted the survey reveals a bias categorical false pretense of not only the Catholic faith in general but all others surveyed.

In other words, this survey does not define my Catholic faith nor does it survey it. It surveys’ its bias categories to summarize its findings from a selected few within the confines of a national border. This bias survey never defines nor surveys the Catholic faith because it has no borders to only a select few, as the LDS church was invented in America.

Therefore I submit to you, that this survey cannot be used to compare any faiths in general especially the Catholic faith. This survey remains bias to its limited categories and to a selected few. To post general comparisons of Christian faith’s from the original survey findings becomes misleading and arrives at a deceptive characterization other than what the survey originally intended its audiences.
ParkerD;7287764]It seems you may have misunderstood. No one answered your question about whether Catholics are studied in the book by the Harvard professor and a colleague. Here is a review of the book, which shows that Catholics were indeed included in the study:
I am amazed how public surveys never “tell the whole Truth”, but can only gage what the author of the survey is looking for. The OP’s survey does not survey or compare the Faith’s as falsely pretended here, but it gaged a people’s mood and characterization within borders of a nation during a time period.

A person must be disturbed who ever question’s the faith and patriotism of true red blooded Americans. Our political diversities is one aspect of what makes America Great in all the world. But what does this political arena has to do with “Christians”? Reveals from the OP’s survey findings is that the LDS has moved itself from “Faith” and into the political arena.

In short, I have not misunderstood, I have only revealed in part what this survey does not reveal.

Peace be with you
“Putnam and Campbell see a symptom of profound change in the national character. Using data drawn from two large surveys, the authors plumb these changes. The data show that the tempestuous sixties shook faith in religion and that the seventies and eighties incubated a strong resurgence of devotion. But the two most recent decades add another twist, as young Americans have abandoned the pews in record numbers. Still, despite recent erosion of religious commitment, Americans remain a distinctively devout people. And devotion affects life far from the sanctuary: Putnam and Campbell parse numbers that identify religious Americans as more generous, more civically engaged, and more neighborly than their secularly minded peers. But the analysis most likely to stir debate illuminates how religion has increasingly separated Republicans from Democrats, conservatives from progressives. Readers may blame the Christian Right for this new cultural fissure, but survey statistics mark liberal congregations as the most politicized. But whether looking at politics or piety, the authors complement their statistical analysis with colorful vignettes, humanizing their numbers with episodes from the lives of individual Protestants and Catholics, Jews and Mormons. An essential resource for anyone trying to understand twenty-first-century America. --Bryce Christensen”
 
What criteria? You are correct in that we are all called to different vocations and directions in life and I certainly believe that there are many un-named saints walking around today. I have no idea whether or not Mother Theresa will have a higher station than anyone else. My point is that sainthood comes through living, as close as possible, a Christ-like life. That life is more evident in certain people than it is in others. Regardless, it does not come through belonging to a particular organization.
Paul calls the early Christians saints because they belong to a particular organization.
 
Paul calls the early Christians saints because they belong to a particular organization.
No, he called those people saints who were living according to the Gospel. His epistles are chalk full of admonitions against those who were not, even though they claimed to be part of the “particular organization”.

Edit
: Actually, you got me on this one zerinus. They did belong to a particular organization.
 
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