A Mass for Judas Iscariot?

  • Thread starter Thread starter AndyF
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Judas definitely wasn’t in a state of divine grace when he died, so I would really doubt it. Some might, but I don’t think that it would be in line with traditional Catholic teaching.
 
The Gospel’s specifically tell us that Judas is lost. He is “The son of destruction”.

I have wondered at times whether there is any way that Judas could go to heaven. It’s not that it is not within God’s mercy, it’s rather Judas thoroughly, radically, and undeniably rejected God. He knew what he was doing, he fell to the same sin that cast Satan out of heaven.
 
Humupower said:
I have wondered at times whether there is any way that Judas could go to heaven.
Click to expand...
I think in the case of Judas, since the Bible specifically states that he is lost, we can say with certainty he isn’t in Heaven. I’m not really sure what the circumstances for a parish holding a funeral Mass are, but I’m pretty sure that they don’t hold them for someone who they have reason to believe wasn’t in a state of grace at death.
 
ConstantineTG said:
Where does it say that Judas is beyond redemption?
Click to expand...
The Bible is specific in saying that Judas was the “son of perdition”. Like someone else stated, it never says that it wouldn’t have been possible for Judas to have been saved, but obviously the Bible, being an inspired text, has the advantage of being able to state with certainty the final destination of an individual and the state of their soul at the time of death.
 
Humupower said:
The Gospel’s specifically tell us that Judas is lost. He is “The son of destruction”.

I have wondered at times whether there is any way that Judas could go to heaven. It’s not that it is not within God’s mercy, it’s rather Judas thoroughly, radically, and undeniably rejected God. He knew what he was doing, he fell to the same sin that cast Satan out of heaven.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the answers.

Is it our choice to make such decisions, that is, picking and choosing who deserves mercy and our assistance? Just asking.🙂 I can’t think of a more adequate expression that would epitomize the expression of mercy in the sense and intensity Jesus had intended than to extend this gesture.

Just being pensive here, I think I read somewhere that Jesus did not specifically say he could not be saved. Food for thought, the process for excommunication assigns men to the devil or abys, but allows a window of opportunity for their salvation. Guess Judas is expendable. If so that is profound for me and causes me to rethink everything I learned.

Don’t have any answers myself. :o

Andy
 
Humupower said:
The Gospel’s specifically tell us that Judas is lost. He is “The son of destruction”.

I have wondered at times whether there is any way that Judas could go to heaven. It’s not that it is not within God’s mercy, it’s rather Judas thoroughly, radically, and undeniably rejected God. He knew what he was doing, he fell to the same sin that cast Satan out of heaven.
Click to expand...
And, at the Last Supper, our Lord says:

But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man. It would be better for him if he had not been born. Matthew 26:24

In the Acts of The Apostles, St. Peter quotes some strong OT Scripture in relation to Judas (Acts 1:20).

Judas worst sin wasnt betraying Jesus: it was the sin of despair, leading to suicide, that consigned him to hell. Our Lord would have forgiven Judas his act of betrayal if he had asked! 🤷
As you inferred in your last sentence, a type of pride which causes despair prevented him from asking for forgiveness.
 
Fink said:
And, at the Last Supper, our Lord says:

But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man. It would be better for him if he had not been born. Matthew 26:24

In the Acts of The Apostles, St. Peter quotes some strong OT Scripture in relation to Judas (Acts 1:20).

Judas` worst sin wasn’t betraying Jesus: it was the sin of despair, leading to suicide, that consigned him to hell. Our Lord would have forgiven Judas his act of betrayal if he had asked! 🤷
As you inferred in your last sentence, a type of pride which causes despair prevented him from asking for forgiveness.
Click to expand...
I’m not ignoring the scriptural quotes you made.

Every human soul that died from the beginning of human history to the very moment Jesus Died on the Cross (Never had a chance of Redemption) until the very moment Jesus died on the Cross despite their Sins. Any Judgment on all those Souls is entirely the decision of God. No one could vouchsafe by saying All Souls before Christ died were lost in Eternal Damnation. Again this is God’s decision alone.

Had Judas committed suicide in utter despair (“Before”) the moment Jesus died on the Cross who can claim that there wasn’t a remote chance at Redemption?
(“Nobody knows”) despite the Scriptural references. This is strictly God’s decision.

However; I can’t say I’ve every heard of an exclusive Mass said for Judas Iscariot except a general Mass for the dead.
 
Actually, Acts 1:25 just says that “Judas turned away [from his apostolic ministry] to go to his own place.” It doesn’t say where that place is.

From this entry in the New World Encyclopedia:
Judas is also the subject of many philosophical writings, including The Problem of Natural Evil by Bertrand Russell and “Three Versions of Judas,” a short story by Jorge Luis Borges. They both allege various problematic ideological contradictions with the discrepancy between Judas’ actions and his eternal punishment.
  • If Jesus foresees Judas’ betrayal, then it may be argued that Judas has no free will, and cannot avoid betraying Jesus. If Judas cannot control his betrayal of Jesus, then he is not morally responsible for his actions. The question has been approached by Thomas Aquinas in his Summa Theologiae, which differentiates between foreknowledge and predestination, and argues that the omnipotence of the divine is not sufficient grounds for eliminating the existence of free will.
  • If Judas is sent to Hell for his betrayal, and his betrayal was a necessary step in the humanity-saving death of Jesus Christ, then Judas is being punished for saving humanity. This goes hand-in-hand with the “free will” argument, and Aquinas’s Summa deals with the issue of free will in demons and other beings instrumental in the life of Jesus that are nevertheless damned. This becomes a moot point in some denominations that denote Hell, not as a place of everlasting torture, but as non-existent state of the dead and the common grave of mankind.
  • If Jesus only suffered while dying on the cross, and then ascended into Heaven, while Judas must suffer for eternity in Hell, then Judas has suffered much more for the sins of humanity than Jesus, and his role in the Atonement is that much more significant.
  • Does Jesus’ plea, “Father forgive them, they know not what they do,” (Luke 23:34) not apply to Judas? Is his atonement insufficient for Judas’ sins?
  • It has been speculated that Judas’ damnation, which seems to be possible from the Gospels’ text, may not actually stem from his betrayal of Christ, but from the despair which caused him to subsequently commit suicide. This position is not without its problems, but it does avoid the paradox of Judas’ predestined act setting in motion both the salvation of all mankind and his own damnation.
  • What if Jesus knew he was going to die? Presumably he did. Was his purpose for coming not to cleanse the world of its sins? Perhaps Judas was all part of His master plan. Was Satan working through Judas? Since Satan failed in his temptation of Jesus in the wilderness, this may have been his second act of betrayal to God.
The damnation of Judas is not a universal conclusion. The Roman Catholic Church only proclaims individuals’ Eternal Salvation through the Canon of Saints. There is no ‘Canon of the Damned’, nor any official proclamation of the damnation of Judas.
 
centurionguard said:
I’m not ignoring the scriptural quotes you made.

Every human soul that died from the beginning of human history to the very moment Jesus Died on the Cross (Never had a chance of Redemption) until the very moment Jesus died on the Cross despite their Sins. Any Judgment on all those Souls is entirely the decision of God. No one could vouchsafe by saying All Souls before Christ died were lost in Eternal Damnation. Again this is God’s decision alone.
Click to expand...
Hell was already in existence, along with The Limbo of The Fathers, also known as The Bosom of Abraham, for those who died in God`s friendship.
Had Judas committed suicide in utter despair (“Before”) the moment Jesus died on the Cross who can claim that there wasn’t a remote chance at Redemption?
(“Nobody knows”) despite the Scriptural references. This is strictly God’s decision.
Click to expand...
However; I can’t say I’ve every heard of an exclusive Mass said for Judas Iscariot except a general Mass for the dead.
Click to expand...
There are still Jesus` troubling words, though:
“…Better for him if he had not been born.”

Even if Judas were to be in Purgatory until the end of time, that wouldnt line up with our Lords “Better for him if he had not been born.” words.
No matter how terrible the suffering in the “deepest pit” of Purgatory, the eventual Beatific Vision would make ithe suffering more than worthwhile.

i know none of thats definite; but, taken together, its pretty damning! 😃

Dont get me wrong: i wish he could be saved. If hes not saved, and a Mass were offered for him, we know someone would benefit.
Somebody once told me that an order of nuns prays for him. If that`true, hats off to them!
Erich said:
.
It has been speculated that Judas’ damnation, which seems to be possible from the Gospels’ text, may not actually stem from his betrayal of Christ, but from the despair which caused him to subsequently commit suicide.
Click to expand...
Its more than just speculation: its almost certain; and thats what i said in that earlier post; and thats why the sin of despair is a mortal sin. It`s saying that not even God could forgive that sin; so despair flows out of a type of pride, the first Capital Sin.

.
 
Its all confusing at best and I must admit I’m ill equipped to fully answer many of the intriguing questions surrounding the final outcome of Judas Iscariot.

I did however; find this Catholic site ascertaining similar interesting questions about this fallen Apostle.

thecatholicforum.org/showthread.php?834-Judas-Iscariot-Evil

It is interesting to note however; only TWO people in Biblical History were named the (“Son Of Perdition”) Judas Iscariot the Betrayer and the Anti-Christ.

Some aspects of Spirituality and Biblical history were not supposed to understand because some of it has yet to be fulfilled.

A lot can be read into the meaning…Son Of Perdition.
This means at the very moment of Judas Iscariot’s conception and Soul at birth, he was destined to be the Betrayer of Jesus. In other words his created Soul by God was made to fulfill this Perdition.

I don’t fully claim to understand this when speaking about the ineffable Gift of Freedom of Choice to do Good or Evil from God dis-positioned and made available to every human soul that God creates.

If Judas Iscariot was Born the Son of Perdition (“The Betrayer”) how can one presuppose the Grace of God made available to him and make Redemption open to him? Perhaps as others have said through Judas humbly (Asking Jesus For Forgiveness). This part is between Jesus and Judas himself.

No one can say for sure in Judas’s mental instability when he committed suicide if he asked forgiveness. 🤷
 
The way I see it:

Mary was certainly destined to be the Mother of Christ. This is a very honored position. However, are we to understand that Mary was forced to accept the Incarnation? In my opinion, no, she did it out of her own free will. Even if she was “full of grace” it doesn’t change that she accepted it by using her free will.

Now, applying that to Judas is the opposite. True. Inasmuch as there is predestination, we can say that Judas was destined to betray. However, he wasn’t forced by God to fulfill this role. He fulfilled it by his own free will as well. Whether he is in hell or not (though I believe in the extreme likelihood of the former) his fate was determined by him and not by God.
 
If Judas’s betrayal was necessary to bring about the crucifixion, which in turn brings about the resurrection and our salvation, then doesn’t it stand to reason that he was such an important cog in God’s machine for man’s salvation that he should be saved?
 
To be honest, I wish it was like that too. But, Judas separated himself from God by his own free will. No doubt, God gave many graces to Judas to attempt to stop him but when Judas committed suicide, he feel prey to the sin of despair. For the justice of God is perfectly absolute. Just as His mercy is absolute. But Judas refused God’s mercy…
 
Well, we’re of the opinion that Judas separated himself from God through free will. If he was a tool of Salvation, then it is possible that he did as he was assigned through free will, bore the pain of betraying Jesus, and then was saved by God in return for his role in the plan.
 
Raphael said:
The way I see it:

Mary was certainly destined to be the Mother of Christ. This is a very honored position. However, are we to understand that Mary was forced to accept the Incarnation? In my opinion, no, she did it out of her own free will. Even if she was “full of grace” it doesn’t change that she accepted it by using her free will.

Now, applying that to Judas is the opposite. True. Inasmuch as there is predestination, we can say that Judas was destined to betray. However, he wasn’t forced by God to fulfill this role. He fulfilled it by his own free will as well. Whether he is in hell or not (though I believe in the extreme likelihood of the former) his fate was determined by him and not by God.
Click to expand...
**However, he wasn’t forced by God to fulfill this role. He fulfilled it by his own free will **
Click to expand...
No arguments; but I do find this interesting. Had it ((“not”)) been Judas Iscariot making the freedom of choice to Betray Jesus; somebody else would have, simply to fulfill that which had already been written in the Old Testament before the Birth of Jesus.
Jesus is the only man in history to ever have the particulars of his Birth and Death Preannounced.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top