A mathematical interpretation of reality?

[tonyrey]

Your objection to my objection is a bit too clever. As a Baptist I don’t believe we are born separated from God, while the CCC says:

1250 Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called.

Your objection to my objection to your objection is unreasonable:

The best test of any philosophy is how you behave. Do you act as if vices are your starting point?

These are value judgments, and value judgments are always relative, they cannot be quantified absolutely.

So are you a moral relativist then?
You have evaded the question:

What is more important in your scale of values: to be generous or miserly, patient or impatient, kind or callous, courteous or discourteous, optimistic or pessimistic, idealistic or cynical, realistic or unrealistic?

What is the fundamental difference between virtues and vices?

 

[inocente]

Your objection to my objection to your objection is unreasonable:

The best test of any philosophy is how you behave. Do you act as if vices are your starting point?

Your objection to my objection to your objection to my objection did not answer my objection to your objection to my objection, which was that as a Baptist I don’t believe we are born separated from God, while the CCC says:

1250 Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called.

In other words I have no reason to believe vices are our starting point, while you have some explaining to do.

I believe most people, most of the time, are good on the simple grounds that if it were otherwise then humans would have died out. Good always wins in the end, since if it didn’t there’d be no one left to say it doesn’t.

You have evaded the question:

Not intentionally. Is it more important to be generous or miserly to professional beggars? To be patient or impatient at injustice? Etc.

You are asking for my value judgment, but as I said value judgments are always relative, they cannot be quantified absolutely.

By all means if someone has quantified them absolutely then give references, but I think you’ll not find any.

What is the fundamental difference between virtues and vices?

Virtues are traits deemed moral, vices the opposite.

I guess you could argue that virtues reduce our distance from God, so must be negative, and vices increase our distance so must be positive.

 

[tonyrey]

Your objection to my objection to your objection to my objection did not answer my objection to your objection to my objection, which was that as a Baptist I don’t believe we are born separated from God, while the CCC says:

1250 Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God, to which all men are called.

In other words I have no reason to believe vices are our starting point, while you have some explaining to do.

Non sequitur. “fallen” does not imply culpability:

**CCC **405 Although it is proper to each individual, original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants.

I believe most people, most of the time, are good on the simple grounds that if it were otherwise then humans would have died out. Good always wins in the end, since if it didn’t there’d be no one left to say it doesn’t.

“in the end” doesn’t apply to life in this world. Evil often wins because there is no answer to the bullet or the bomb on earth.

Not intentionally. Is it more important to be generous or miserly to professional beggars? To be patient or impatient at injustice? Etc.

You are asking for my value judgment, but as I said value judgments are always relative, they cannot be quantified absolutely.

By all means if someone has quantified them absolutely then give references, but I think you’ll not find any.

Don’t you believe we should **always **obey our conscience and always do what we believe is right?

Virtues are traits deemed moral, vices the opposite.

I guess you could argue that virtues reduce our distance from God, so must be negative, and vices increase our distance so must be positive.

An excellent example of sophistry. It implies that we should have a negative attitude to life yet you have admitted you don’t believe we are born **separated **from God. How inconsistent can you get?

 

[inocente]

Non sequitur. “fallen” does not imply culpability:

No, I fully understand that the blame falls entirely of two people who had just been created out of nowhere, who had no schooling, no parents, no relatives or friends to teach them anything, and for that reason the ground is cursed for the rest of us for ever and ever. Which seems very, what’s the word I’m looking for, fair.

But that aside, what they did was to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, it didn’t make them evil, it just opened their eyes in the serpent’s words.

“in the end” doesn’t apply to life in this world. Evil often wins because there is no answer to the bullet or the bomb on earth.

No, I meant that in this world good always triumphs over evil - evil societies may start up but they are always put down in the fullness of time.

*Don’t you believe we should **always ***obey our conscience and always do what we believe is right?

I asked a question there, so you need to answer it first: Is it more important to be generous or miserly to professional beggars? To be patient or impatient at injustice? Etc.

*An excellent example of sophistry. It implies that we should have a negative attitude to life yet you have admitted you don’t believe we are born **separated ***from God. How inconsistent can you get?

I do not accept that babies, innocents, are born separated from God. I do accept that as we grow older, we separate ourselves from God, i.e. that none of us is without sin, and therefore Christ died to set us free. How is that in any way whatsoever negative or inconsistent with the gospel?

 

[Protestor]

I think you mean 9.9^_ (repeating decimal)=1 i guess as long as you feel it is sufficiently long your fine
these are my favorite ones to use
0!=1 , for x>>1 (x+1)!=x! , I don’t use this one that much but ln(N!)=Nln(N) +N

On the serious your title is kinda wrong. I do not feel that this strengthen the apology against the so called problem of evil. The intellectual community of atheist and agnostics do not have us by the short hair over this issue, because it was solved long ago.

 

[hazcompat]

Before the word is Spoken;
Where the Word is Begotten!

Peace

 

[hazcompat]

Peace

 

[Di_Maiores]

Peace through the tranquility of a Feynman diagram. Or what it depicts … very interesting.

 

[tonyrey]

No, I fully understand that the blame falls entirely of two people who had just been created out of nowhere, who had no schooling, no parents, no relatives or friends to teach them anything, and for that reason the ground is cursed for the rest of us for ever and ever. Which seems very, what’s the word I’m looking for, fair.

The rest of us are to blame for our own sins. So they are not entirely to blame. They are to blame for sins because they knew what they were doing was wrong.

The idea that “the ground is cursed for the rest of us for ever and ever” is false. The choice of evil had no effect on the planet.

But that aside, what they did was to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, it didn’t make them evil, it just opened their eyes in the serpent’s words.

Indeed but they chose to do what they knew was wrong.

No, I meant that in this world good always triumphs over evil - evil societies may start up but they are always put down in the fullness of time.

Whereas individuals are not always put downfailures in their life on earth

I asked a question there, so you need to answer it first: Is it more important to be generous or miserly to professional beggars? To be patient or impatient at injustice? Etc.

Those issues are resolved by applying the principle of the lesser evil…

Do you believe we should **always **obey our conscience and always do what we believe is right? Or not?

I do not accept that babies, innocents, are born separated from God. I do accept that as we grow older, we separate ourselves from God, i.e. that none of us is without sin, and therefore Christ died to set us free. How is that in any way whatsoever negative or inconsistent with the gospel?

You stated that “virtues reduce our distance from God, so must be negative, and vices increase our distance so must be positive”. How does that apply to us when we are babies who are not born separated from God?

 

[inocente]

The rest of us are to blame for our own sins. So they are not entirely to blame. They are to blame for sins because they knew what they were doing was wrong.

They didn’t know right from wrong until after they ate the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It was the fruit which gave them the knowledge.

We are each Adam or Eve, they are symbols for the human condition. We all start blameless, and then fail.

The idea that “the ground is cursed for the rest of us for ever and ever” is false. The choice of evil had no effect on the planet.

“Cursed is the ground because of you” - Gen 3:17

It’s an allegory.

Those issues are resolved by applying the principle of the lesser evil…

Fine but you still didn’t answer my question, which was about who gets to rule on which is which is the lesser evil: “Is it more important to be generous or miserly to professional beggars? To be patient or impatient at injustice? Etc”

You stated that “virtues reduce our distance from God, so must be negative, and vices increase our distance so must be positive”. How does that apply to us when we are babies who are not born separated from God?

As we grow up all sin, so separating ourselves from God.