A message in tongues duiring mass

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Hi all,

What do you think would happen if somebody brought a message in tongues and an interpretation during mass such as Paul describes in 1cor 13v27? Would this be seen as acceptable? Does this happen at any of the masses you attend?
 
If someone “brought a message” in a tongue (read foreign language), I would assume it to be German, French, maybe Mandarin, etc. A *spoken *language.
And, no, this has never happened at any Mass I’ve attended.
 
I’m very active in the Charismatic movement… and if that occured, I’d even be highly skeptical. Interpretation of tongues is a very rare gift anymore. But if I could somehow confirm it was truly the Holy Spirit, by means of the content of the message, or the reputation of the ones involved (If they were bishops or something’)… I’d probably just smile and thank God quietly.

Josh
 
If the charismatic message was at a mass for charismatic healing or praise and worship and done at a time set aside for such messages it would be all right but it should not be done in some kind of disruptive way during mass. This kind of message would be very devisive to those who do not understand. As Paul himself said “I would rather say 5 words understood than 5000 that are not understood.” The book of Romans is very clear that those who do not walk in the Spirit can not understand Spiritual things. The things of the Spirit are foolishness to the carnal minded. We have the same problems today as Paul had in his day, because so many walk by the flesh trying to please God with works of the flesh and have never heard God Speak to them or have they ever done what God personnaly told them to do yet they will tell you all about what God told someone else to do and that some how will please God. That would be like you telling your son to hitch the horses and go out and plow the back forty. He would look at you like you were nuts and rightly so! God speaks to peole who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. In the book of Galatians chapter 3 verse 24 he said "the law was our school master to lead us to Christ and now that faith has come we are no longer under law of the school master but we are children of God in Christ Jesus. In other words we know the masters will not from a set of rules but through a change of our will to the very mind of Christ. God Bless
 
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lydiabeeuk:
Hi all,

What do you think would happen if somebody brought a message in tongues and an interpretation during mass such as Paul describes in 1cor 13v27? Would this be seen as acceptable? Does this happen at any of the masses you attend?
I’d find another parish.
 
LOL why would everybody be so wary or skeptical if something like this happened during mass? Paul seems to think that these kinds of things are NORMAL for when the church comes together:

"When you come together everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation…If anyone speaks in a tongue, 2 - or at the most 3- should speak, one at a time, and someone must intepret"

This was Paul’s instruction to the corinthians for orderly worship. (1cor 14:26+)

Threej_lc I’m interested under which authority you state: “interpretation of tongues is a very rare gift anymore”. Certainly not the bible, and I don’t think the church either.

Highwayman, Paul tells us "Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers"1cor 14:22, how can you say

QUOTEThis kind of message would be very devisive to those who do not understand. As Paul himself said “I would rather say 5 words understood than 5000 that are not understood.” The book of Romans is very clear that those who do not walk in the Spirit can not understand Spiritual things. The things of the Spirit are foolishness to the carnal minded

If tongues is a sign for unbelievers then Paul cannot be saying that we should not speak in tongues in the prescence on unbelievers, or those who don’t understand. He was telling the corinthians to do it in an orderly way, and to interpret them, so that the church could be edified.

If you all believe a message in tongues and interpretation during mass (done in an orderly way, at an appropriate time) would be unacceptable, or unusual, then you must agree with me that the church seen in the NT is somewhat different to the church we see today??
 
I would hope that any church would be different from the church at Corinth; it was the most troubled of all the NT churches…absolute chaos. Terrible immorality, no order in the services, un-Christian behaviour of every possible kind…Not what I would call a good example to draw on!
The whole point of St Paul’s letter was to try to bring some measure of decency & order back into the worship! I have never been able to understand why it is that anyone would pull out Corinth as an example of what a church service should look like.
And please don’t be trying to break up the services in my Methodist church either! If that sort of thing were to happen, it wouldn’t be necessary for me to look for another church; the person causing the disruption would be the one to move on down the road to a pentecostal church, where that is the rule. Yes, it would be a disruption!
God bless.
 
With respect: Please re-read Corinthians.
Corinth was the most troubled, least orderly church in the entire NT. Beset by gross immorality & plagued by factions that warred with one another, Corinth threatened to self destruct.St Paul was not assuming that the way the Corinthians were “worshipping” was normal. He knew that it was not. That is why he wrote to them, putting some outside limits on the amount of disruption that would be tolerated.
All that St Paul says in 1 Corinthians, is aimed toward restoring order. It is beyond my comprehension why a church would want to cause more of the liturgical abuses that he was trying to put an end to…
God bless.
 
Zoey - Paul was correcting the way in which they were worshipping - it was not orderly, but he was certainly not saying that the gifts christ gave to his church were “liturgical abuses”!!! He was encouraging them to be done, but in an orderly fashion
 
It’s a good thing the Apostles didn’t “find another parish”!
 
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lydiabeeuk:
Zoey - Paul was correcting the way in which they were worshipping - it was not orderly, but he was certainly not saying that the gifts christ gave to his church were “liturgical abuses”!!! He was encouraging them to be done, but in an orderly fashion
This is the problem with private interpretation. I’m sure you can find scriptural reference for almost anything you wish to prove.

Paul’s instructions to the Corinthians were for the Corinthians of that time. They may or may not be for today’s time & place.

Jesus told us to be subject to the authority of the Church he founded, which is His Body.

Should there be a message in tongues spoken during Mass? I’m sure the safest answer would be --NO!!

There may be some exceptions to the general rule, but they would be very few and far between. The Mass is the public worship of the Church. It is primarily a sacrifice, but it is also a meal and a ritual, with very specific instructions.

Posssibly the Spirit may manifest himself a little differently in a Charismatic stlye Mass, where this would not be so offensive, but even then I doubt this would be the case. The Spirit would not inspire disregarding the rules of ritual.

Dove
 
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lydiabeeuk:
Threej_lc I’m interested under which authority you state: “interpretation of tongues is a very rare gift anymore”. Certainly not the bible, and I don’t think the church either.
No Authority other then personal experience. I’ve regulared at 5 different prayer groups, attended countless charismatic conferences, had private prayer with many people very strong in the gifts. I’ve seen thousands of people with prayer languages. Only once have I ever seen tongues interpreted.

I’m in no way saying interpretation doesn’t exist, or isn’t a valid gift. I’m merely stating that in my personal experience, its rare to come by. Perhaps in other prayer circles this is not so.

Those things aside, I would be much interested to see how liturgy was done in the early days of the church when all its members were so active in the gifts.

Josh
 
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RichT:
It’s a good thing the Apostles didn’t “find another parish”!
Hi,

I’m sure many did. We know the Apostles had different views on certain things. There is nothing wrong with find a legitimate option, if something bothers you.

Dove
 
I have only once experienced someone speaking in tongues, in the context of a small healing prayer group, and this person was working in partnership with someone who interepreted tongues, and both were under the direction of the priest, a person with long experience in the Charismatic renewal. I was told during that retreat that speaking in tongues is not encouraged at Mass, except the type of tongues that is purely praise language. and even then only at a Charismatic Mass, for brief periods at appropriate times.

At our Church we have all kinds of speaking in tongues, usually by people under the age of 3, who do it at the top of their lungs and are hustled outside by their parents, who have no difficulty interpreting.
 
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puzzleannie:
I have only once experienced someone speaking in tongues, in the context of a small healing prayer group, and this person was working in partnership with someone who interepreted tongues, and both were under the direction of the priest, a person with long experience in the Charismatic renewal. I was told during that retreat that speaking in tongues is not encouraged at Mass, except the type of tongues that is purely praise language. and even then only at a Charismatic Mass, for brief periods at appropriate times.

At our Church we have all kinds of speaking in tongues, usually by people under the age of 3, who do it at the top of their lungs and are hustled outside by their parents, who have no difficulty interpreting.
:amen: to the first paragraph and :rotfl: to the second one. (don’t you just love children at Mass? I do, I always think of Jesus saying to bring the little one’s to Him, for of such is the Kingdom of God.)
 
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lydiabeeuk:
Zoey - Paul was correcting the way in which they were worshipping - it was not orderly, but he was certainly not saying that the gifts christ gave to his church were “liturgical abuses”!!! He was encouraging them to be done, but in an orderly fashion
With respect: this is faulty reasoning.
What you are saying is, ‘these are gifts that were given, therefore it is all right to use them’, when Paul was clearly writing to correct the fact that these things were going on. Why would he correct them, if they were regarded as gifts?
No. The Corinthians were aping the behaviour of the pagans around them. They were enjoying showing off. Again, I urge you to read without preconceptions. Just because someone has said that something is true, doesnot make it so…
Now, as to what they might do in private prayer–that would be a matter between them & God. But in public worship, Paul clearly states that they were out of order.
In no way can one consider the letter to the Corinthians to be an encouragement of their behaviour. Just the opposite.
God bless.
 
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Zooey:
With respect: this is faulty reasoning.
What you are saying is, ‘these are gifts that were given, therefore it is all right to use them’, when Paul was clearly writing to correct the fact that these things were going on. Why would he correct them, if they were regarded as gifts?
You seem to be under the impression that Pauls corrections requested the removal of these gifts. You are sorely mistaken(read below, i believe i address this last)
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Zooey:
Now, as to what they might do in private prayer–that would be a matter between them & God. But in public worship, Paul clearly states that they were out of order.
In no way can one consider the letter to the Corinthians to be an encouragement of their behaviour. Just the opposite.
God bless.
Again, re-read the chapter. Paul is Definitely talking about public worship. He doesn’t even address private matters(accept that if an intepreter is absent, tongues should be said to oneself)

I’m gonna try and back this up scripturally by going to 1 Corinthians 14, i decided to use the new king james version for this.
1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
Alright, this is the first line. obviously he is not at all telling them to “ease up” on the gifts.
*5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for *he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.
Now, Paul realizes who he is talking to. He knows that human beings are easily confused. He spends 5 verses explaining how prophesy is better than tongues. If he did not seriously mean that he wished they could all speak in tongues, he would have clarified it. Something like “Now i wish that you all spoke in tongues, but i know that you would become a pompus church”
Skipping 6-21, which talk basically about how someone has to be pure in spirit when speaking in tongues, so we can all say amen even if they don’t make any sense.
22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.
I like this verse. I think we as christians often like to say that tongues is for believers, one because we would scare unbelievers, who wouldn’t understand, and two, that we feel it is a more private thing( i know, this doesn’t address your post, just one of my own wonderful tidbits of knowledge) Paul states quite clearly, tongues are to be shown to unbelievers, not hidden. Does that call for them during sunday mass? unfortunately, i don’t understand Catholic structure and purpose to tell you.
39 Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.
When all is said and done, Paul is quite clear.
I honestly can’t recall a time where God has called his leaders to “Godly softness”. You seem to claim that Paul is simply trying to contain a raging bull, he’ll worry about taming it later. Scripture shows this isn’t the case. If Paul was going to rebuke, why not the whole nine yards? why go halfway, and send instructions, which he knew were going to be treated as law, to only go halfway.
 
Hi,

interesting discussion! I was in a evangelisation academy run by a charismatic community. At Pentecost of this year the preast began speaking in tongues during mass. I was like :eek:
That really was the last straw for me, because I sensed there was something wrong. There was no interpretation and a lot of people were joining in the tongue speaking I guess just because everyone did it. Group dynamics of course.
Recently somebody suggested this text about tongue speaking.

Errors of Charismatics

I think this is really good and for me this has answered the questions I had about tongue speaking.

Take care!
🙂 🙂
 
Hi again,

While I do agree that tongues at Mass is not really appropriate, I have not seen any posts in this discussion differentiating between Speaking in tongues and praying in tongues.

I am certain this has been discussed before—it always does come up in discussions about tongues.

Speaking in tongues (which does need interpretation) in not nearly as common as praying in tongues (which is just sounds or groanings which do not need interpretation). A prayer tongue is used for praise or petition, and is letting the Spirit pray for us, since we really do not know how to pray
Romans 8:26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.
This is usually the type of tongue which Catholics reference when discussing tongues. It is used very frequently by most Catholics Charismatics in praise and prayers for healing.

I have heard a praise tongue, but rarely, either at the elevation during consecration or after Communion. It is not words, it is sounds. I guess would be considered a liturgical abuse, but I doubt it would be considered serious in a Charismatic style Mass.
 
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