A Miracle Not Subject to Doubt

[Love4All]

Much has been written in the history of humanity about miracles. Stories of suspension of the ordinary laws of nature abound, not only in the Old and New Testaments but in the Scriptures of other cultures as well. Most of what we hear about are miracles of nature, but there are two classes of miracles, according to Saint Louis deMontfort, to wit: miracles of nature and miracles of grace.

God is pouring out unprecedented graces these days through His Immaculate Mother’s Rosary. He is working miracle after miracle after miracle of grace. These miracles happen interiorly, so they are not seen. An example of a miracle of nature from Holy Scripture is the changing of water to wine, while a miracle of grace is demonstrated when Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery, “Go, and sin no more.” The miracle of nature is a definite sign; but the miracle of grace is unseen.

Nonetheless, George says, God’s miracles of grace are greater by far than His miracles of nature.

And because they happen interiorly, the one to whom they happen — i.e. whoever is devoted to the Rosary — cannot deny it to themselves. There have been threads here about, for example, an alien coming with superior technology pretending to be God; but invariably, these talk about the alien faking a miracle of nature. A miracle of grace, can’t be faked, the one to whom it happens knows it is happening. And miracles like these are becoming more and more frequent, in those who become devoted to the Rosary. It is the fulfillment of Our Blessed Mother’s prophecy that one day, through the Rosary and the Scapular, she would save the world.

The world is steeped in sin. God is no longer allowing Himself to be offended by the sins of His human creatures. So He is eliminating all sin now, both mortal and venial sin. That is why the Penitential Rosary Crusade Prayer is now spreading worldwide.

You can help!!!

1. Pray it, yourself, and rosary after rosary after rosary.
2. Copy it, change the name of the Diocese to that of your own Diocese, and propagate it.

What I do is include a copy of this prayer inside a rosary pamphlet, and place them on the racks at the back of Churches. Then whoever wishes to take one may. This is the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. It precedes the Great Judgment, soon to come. This is still the Time of Mercy!

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=643426

 

[zro_x]

A miracle of grace might be possible to fake, though with more difficulty than a miracle of nature. Neuroscientists already claim that they can simulate the presence of God.

 

[Ion]

A miracle of grace might be possible to fake, though with more difficulty than a miracle of nature. Neuroscientists already claim that they can simulate the presence of God.

I don’t think so.
Let say an a’la Tyrion scenario: somebody rapes and kills your daughter! How do you fake that you forgive him?

 

[zro_x]

I don’t think so.
Let say an a’la Tyrion scenario: somebody rapes and kills your daughter! How do you fake that you forgive him?

The OP is talking about whether or not miracles of grace can be faked by some external source, even though miracles of grace are felt internally. a neuroscientist, with the right tools, might be able to stimulate the parts of the brain (if such parts exist) which are responsible for the miracle of grace.

 

[brian614]

The OP is talking about whether or not miracles of grace can be faked by some external source, even though miracles of grace are felt internally. a neuroscientist, with the right tools, might be able to stimulate the parts of the brain that may be responsible for the miracle of grace.

I think the OP is talking about a true conversion, deep sorrow for sin, or a lasting sense of being closer to God. Not a feeling that goes away after stimulation to the brain ends.

But you are right I have read an article or two where scientists will stimulate the brain to cause “a religious experience”

 

[zro_x]

I think the OP is talking about a true conversion, deep sorrow for sin, or a lasting sense of being closer to God. Not a feeling that goes away after stimulation to the brain ends.

hmmmm… you may have a point there. Still, I don’t think we can say that it is impossible for a miricle of grace to be faked.

 

[Ion]

I think the OP is talking about a true conversion, deep sorrow for sin, or a lasting sense of being closer to God. Not a feeling that goes away after stimulation to the brain ends.

But you are right I have read an article or two where scientists will stimulate the brain to cause “a religious experience”

And how do they realy know a religious experience, while they seem to be atheists?

 

[zro_x]

And how do they realy know a religious experience, while they seem to be atheists?

They wouldn’t test it on themselves. they’d test it on religious people who have claimed to have religious experiences, and and see if they testify to having a religious experience as the scientists are mucking about in their head.

 

[brian614]

And how do they realy know a religious experience, while they seem to be atheists?

Good point!

 

[brian614]

hmmmm… you may have a point there. Still, I don’t think we can say that it is impossible for a miricle of grace to be faked.

Your probably right, I guess anything can be faked…

Sad to think someone would want to fake a miracle of grace but we are humans and humans do strange things.

 

[aemcpa]

Nonetheless, George says, God’s miracles of grace are greater by far than His miracles of nature.

George?

 

[godisgood77]

The OP is talking about whether or not miracles of grace can be faked by some external source, even though miracles of grace are felt internally. a neuroscientist, with the right tools, might be able to stimulate the parts of the brain (if such parts exist) which are responsible for the miracle of grace.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a miracle of grace? Can you give me an example?

 

[zro_x]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a miracle of grace? Can you give me an example?

The OP could tell you what a miracle of grace is better than I could. All I can give you is my understanding of it.

My Understanding of a miracle of grace is that it is a subjective experience that occurs when one does something holy, like praying the rosary or going to confession. It may or may not be accompanied by a feeling.

 

[zro_x]

Another potential problem about the miracles of grace is that they are something which, from my understanding, even the individual experiencing them may deny are actually devine. They might claim they are experiencing some other natural mental phenomenon, if they experience a feeling associated with the miracle of grace.

 

[JM3]

George?

That was my thought, too. lol

Maybe, his/her brother? (now that’s how you date yourself )

Too bad we don’t have an smiley of a robot waving its arms and saying ‘Danger Will Robinson’.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=310108

Note post 13.

Also, post 16 gives this link: avalon44.tripod.com/r/pr.htm

ON DECEMBER 26, 1970, Our Lord taught Maria Concepcion Zuniga Lopez how to recite the Penitential Rosary. Step by step, Jesus Himself dictated the manner in which this Penitential Rosary is to be recited.

 

[polytropos]

Miracles of grace can be explained alternatively by confirmation bias, psychology, etc. I don’t think they are beyond doubt in the sense that those who experience them will necessarily be certain about the existence of God.

I don’t say this because I think they are just uncommon psychological phenomena that people interpret as religious experiences. But I am saying that secularism has a codified response to such claims, and that a secular person who experiences one could still find a way to write it off.

I also think it is a matter of unconscious philosophical assumptions. There are some atheists who might experience a miracle of grace and go convert. If Richard Dawkins experienced one, his philosophical assumptions (although in this case they are not unconscious, I suppose) would probably lead him to insist that he is going crazy before he would confess belief in a God.

 

[brumano]

hmmmm… you may have a point there. Still, I don’t think we can say that it is impossible for a miricle of grace to be faked.

let’s posit that then, and ask how a miracle of both grace and nature occuring simultaneously or in a timely correlation can be faked, imagined, hallucinated or otherwise inauthenticated when reason, not beligerrant denial, is applied?

 

[zro_x]

let’s posit that then, and ask how a miracle of both grace and nature occuring simultaneously or in a timely correlation can be faked, imagined, hallucinated or otherwise inauthenticated when reason, not beligerrant denial, is applied?

The psychological effects of a miracle of Grace might come from seeing something that the person interprets as a miracle of nature.

 

[brumano]

The psychological effects of a miracle of Grace might come from seeing something that the person interprets as a miracle of nature.

surely possible some of the times, but couldn’t possibly account for anywhere near the number and the witnesses of those miracles all of the times. When a true miracle takes place there are sometimes also, gifts of certain kinds that come totally unexpectantly to the persons reporting them. Just to use an accessible case that we can look at, take the miracle of the wedding feast at Cana; the host just needed enough regular wine to get through the feast without running out again, but they got the finest wine that just poured and kept on pouring, and there was plenty to have for quite awhile after, and there’s of course alot more to this miracle but it’s hard to get someone to have a psychological affect of something that they don’t even know happened.

 

[Love4All]

It seems there is a lot of confusion over what is meant by a miracle. The word means, “wonder.” Jesus worked wondrous signs, demonstrating His Power.

Pope Leo XIII wrote,

papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13augus.htm

The Only-begotten Son of God ever paid to His Most Holy Mother indubitable marks of honour. During His private life on earth He associated her with Himself in each of His first two miracles: the miracle of grace, when, at the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in the womb of Elizabeth; the miracle of nature, when He turned water into wine at the marriage - feast of Cana.

Now, do you think he is saying that a baby leaping in its mother’s womb is a miracle? Surely not; that happens all the time, as the ordinary course of nature. What, then, was the miracle? Saint John the Baptizer was sanctified while still in his mother’s womb. He was not conceived without sin — that privilege belongs uniquely to the Mother of God. But he was born without sin, having been sanctified in the womb, through the intercession of Mary and by the Power of Christ.

Miracles of grace are miracles of conversion from sin. They are not mystical phenomena, like, visions, locutions, or apparitions. They are conversion, of the heart of a sinner, to the heart of a former sinner. When Jesus said, “go, and sin no more,” He meant it. Whether that woman sinned no more, Scripture does not say; but we do know that she received sufficient grace to sin no more, because Jesus cannot command what is impossible to obey.

So, it is categorically impossible to fake a miracle of grace. A miracle of grace takes a person who used to commit sins, and changes them into a person who sins no more. It is normally a gradual process, not an instantaneous one, but I fear to give anyone an excuse to go and sin more. When we say the Act of Contrition in the Sacrament of Confession, we promise God, “to sin no more.” When we finally begin to accept His graces of our conversion from our sins, that is a miracle of grace, a miracle of conversion from sin. It is not the same thing as a vision or a locution. It is not a phenomenon per se. It is a change of heart.

We should be asking God for these miracles. He is willing to do them for us. If we do not ask Him, and then are judged harshly, we have only ourselves to blame.