A modest proposal for Muslims

[cestusdei]

You say Christians are fine and happy in Islamic countries. Fine then I suggest we implement your wonderful policies and apply them to Muslims here in the West. That way you to can share in the happiness of dhimmitude. So here goes:

-you will pay a special tax that Christians don’t have to pay
-you will be forbidden to serve in the military or bear arms
-you will not be allowed to be chief of state ie. President
-you will only be allowed to worship privately
-you will not be allowed to evangelize
-your men will not be allowed to marry Christian women, but our men can marry your women
-children of mixed marriages will be Christian
-on pain of death Christians will be forbidden to convert to Islam
-Muslims can and are encouraged to convert to Christianity, you will not be allowed to disuade them
-if you protest or revolt then we reserve the right to kill you
-if you say anything at all that we construe as negative towards Christianity then we will kill you
-we will have special police to patrol and enforce these laws
-you will not be given equal protection of law or be able to take a Christian to court
-we will be allowed to say anything we wish about Islam
-in schools we will teach negative things about Islam and not allow for any rebuttal

This is just for starters. I am sure I can dig up more rules. We might even have to repeal the prohibition of slavery in our constitution so we can treat you as Christians are treated in Sudan. I am absolutely certain you will flourish under these enlightened laws that you yourselves thought up and apply to Christians. Also I am sure you will have no complaints and if you do then we will treat complainers just like they do in good ole Arabia. Times Square will have to be renamed chop chop square.

 

[Rhubarb]

You can say this, but if someone mentions the not-so-bright history of the Catholic Church all of a sudden it’s anti-Catholic biggotry.

I think some literature somewhere mentions “charitable discourse”

That didn’t sound very charitable to me.

 

[mjdonnelly]

Rhubarb:

You can say this, but if someone mentions the not-so-bright history of the Catholic Church all of a sudden it’s anti-Catholic biggotry.

I think some literature somewhere mentions “charitable discourse”

That didn’t sound very charitable to me.

But he is stating current issues, not past problems. If they are all current, it is not uncharitable to state them.

 

[Rhubarb]

I don’t think sarcasm counts as charity.

 

[mjdonnelly]

Rhubarb:

I don’t think sarcasm counts as charity.

So your issue is with the part about being happy in Islamic countries and wonderful policies. Not the list itself.

 

[Ching_PBUH]

cestusdei:

You say Christians are fine and happy in Islamic countries. Fine then I suggest we implement your wonderful policies and apply them to Muslims here in the West. That way you to can share in the happiness of dhimmitude. So here goes:

-you will pay a special tax that Christians don’t have to pay
-you will be forbidden to serve in the military or bear arms
-you will not be allowed to be chief of state ie. President
-you will only be allowed to worship privately
-you will not be allowed to evangelize
-your men will not be allowed to marry Christian women, but our men can marry your women
-children of mixed marriages will be Christian
-on pain of death Christians will be forbidden to convert to Islam
-Muslims can and are encouraged to convert to Christianity, you will not be allowed to disuade them
-if you protest or revolt then we reserve the right to kill you
-if you say anything at all that we construe as negative towards Christianity then we will kill you
-we will have special police to patrol and enforce these laws
-you will not be given equal protection of law or be able to take a Christian to court
-we will be allowed to say anything we wish about Islam
-in schools we will teach negative things about Islam and not allow for any rebuttal

This is just for starters. I am sure I can dig up more rules. We might even have to repeal the prohibition of slavery in our constitution so we can treat you as Christians are treated in Sudan. I am absolutely certain you will flourish under these enlightened laws that you yourselves thought up and apply to Christians. Also I am sure you will have no complaints and if you do then we will treat complainers just like they do in good ole Arabia. Times Square will have to be renamed chop chop square.

• No Mosque, you worship privately at home
• No public rally without the Church’s approval.
• All religious printed materials must carry the warning “FOR MUSLIMS ONLY”
• You will not be given access to mass communication channels like tv, radio, newspapers etc

 

[mjdonnelly]

Oh, I have one.

Muslim men must wear almost black sunglasses when out of their some so as not to be tempted with impure thoughts by looking at women.

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

Tread very carefully here folks. I think this is a fine subject to discuss, but please remember your charity.

There is a societal and cultural context (not just religious) to many of these things, and so to push this all on our Muslim brethren- is unfair.

Many of these things did spring from religious necessity, and therefore fits into the ‘religious’ dialogue we encourage.

If you choose to post, remember this, and also remember not only your religious charity but charity toward your fellow man.

Thank you.

 

[r.gonzales]

just out of curiosity i thought i’d view your post to see what your proposal was… can’t say i’m really surprise at what i found.

in anycase… here’s my reply to what’s been posted thus far.

-you will pay a special tax that Christians don’t have to pay

big deal, i already pay taxes in the western country i live in - taxes that i rarely see benefit me. i pay into a pension fund that i don’t care to pay for. the company i work for already forces me to pay for so-called “benefits” that i hardly ever use. if i end up owning a car, i’d have to pay manditory car insurance, which is usury and is forbidden in islam .

btw, as has been mentioned by many on this board, even some just and fair-minded christians, muslims themselves have to pay a tax, it’s called zakaah. heck i even pay it living here in the west! it mainly goes to the poor and needy of those living under the muslim ruler’s rule, but it can also be given to certain non-muslims as Allah mentions in the Quran.

-you will be forbidden to serve in the military or bear arms

fine by me. i’d gladly welcome such a law .

-you will not be allowed to be chief of state ie. President

that’s good. i wouldn’t mind this law at all. considering that no muslim should be running for a non-muslim government anyhow. btw, democracy is not from islam and is a forbidden means of government.

-you will only be allowed to worship privately
-you will not be allowed to evangelize

although it’s not law, this already goes on in some other countries. not that it matters to me, but you’d be hard pressed to find a mosque in greece, or a be greeted by a welcoming face by citizens of that country if they knew you were muslim.

-Muslims can and are encouraged to convert to Christianity, you will not be allowed to disuade them

this goes on in various lands already… thanks to the work of your evangelical protestant brothers and sisters and their missions to thirdworld countries, particularly in africa. and Allah forbid that you speak out against their deceitful tactics of calling to their religion and beliefs under the pretext of giving poor and needy muslims aid by means of money and food.

-if you protest or revolt then we reserve the right to kill you

protesting and revolting is not from islam anyhow. those muslims who participate in these things are largely ignorant of the fact that the sunnah of prophet muhammad shuns these things.

-we will be allowed to say anything we wish about Islam
-in schools we will teach negative things about Islam and not allow for any rebuttal

you already do… especially with respect to the first of these two points. you and your posts are proof of that.

cestusdei:

Also I am sure you will have no complaints and if you do then we will treat complainers just like they do in good ole Arabia.

for practically all of these points you mention i’d have no complaints. in fact, if i felt that some of them were restrictive of my religion, then i’d aim at moving to a country where i could practice my religion freely - like egypt or saudi or some other muslim country. you know, it’s funny you keep talking about the rough time christians have in muslim countries, but i’m almost 100% sure that your christian brothers and sisters currently working in saudi arabia as labourers have no complaints about the fact that they don’t pay taxes despite the nice high wages they’re earning there…

 

[Darrel]

btw, democracy is not from islam and is a forbidden means of government.

Why do people vote in the middle east then? Voting is only found in democracy and it was born in democracy. Unless I’m mistaken the president of Iran was elected?

-D

 

[r.gonzales]

Darrel:

Why do people vote in the middle east then? Voting is only found in democracy and it was born in democracy. Unless I’m mistaken the president of Iran was elected?

as has been said in other threads, the actions of muslims or muslim countries aren’t always according to what islam legislates. democracy is not from islam and is forbidden system of government.

 

[cestusdei]

See R doesn’t mind them a bit. So when we bulldoze his mosque or stone his Imam for evangelizing he won’t murmur. When we “invite” his kids to convert to Christianity and he can’t try to persuade them otherwise he will rejoice. I am so glad that dhimmitude appeals to Muslims, so let’s get those laws enacted soon!

 

[manualman]

Dictatorship is required in Islam??

Is this universally agreed upon among the various traditions of Islam or a notion specific to one group? I find it hard to believe I haven’t heard this until now after 4+ years of war in Iraq to create ‘democracy.’

 

[r.gonzales]

manualman:

Dictatorship is required in Islam??

who said anything about dictatorship?

 

[JimG]

Several Questions:

If democracy is a forbidden form of government, does that mean that no Muslim should live in a country which is governed by such a system?

Very few nations actually have pure democracy as a form of government. The U.S. is a republic, not a democracy; the U.K. has a parliamentary system, etc. Could Muslims accept those forms of government?

 

[MugenOne]

If Islam forbids democracy, why some of y’all migrant to the West for? I remember seeming some Muslims on CNN said that Islam is better than democracy. If Islam is better than democracy, then go home to wherever you are from.

r.gonzales:

as has been said in other threads, the actions of muslims or muslim countries aren’t always according to what islam legislates. democracy is not from islam and is forbidden system of government.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

cestusdei:

See R doesn’t mind them a bit. So when we bulldoze his mosque

Bad idea - convert into a church, a tannery, or a slaughterhouse.​

or stone his Imam for evangelizing he won’t murmur. When we “invite” his kids to convert to Christianity and he can’t try to persuade them otherwise he will rejoice. I am so glad that dhimmitude appeals to Muslims, so let’s get those laws enacted soon!

Further suggestions:​

1. Remove their children, so that these can be educated as Catholics
2. Destroy all Korans and other Muslim books relating to religion and law imported into the country; also, all prayer mats.
3. Forbid all Muslim religious practices which involve going to a second country [no more Haj]
4. Forbid the speaking of Arabic
5. Forbid them to have halal butchers or to have their own banks
6. Make the five prostrations to Mecca impossible

The important thing is to weaken the bonds which join Muslims - if the very things which make Islam possible as a shared way of life are destroyed, Islam will be destroyed. So: make the observance of their taboo practices & their distinctively Muslim practices impossible. ##

 

[Hashi_Al-Eritre]

## Bad idea - convert into a church, a tannery, or a slaughterhouse. ##

Further suggestions:​

1. Remove their children, so that these can be educated as Catholics
2. Destroy all Korans and other Muslim books relating to religion and law imported into the country; also, all prayer mats.
3. Forbid all Muslim religious practices which involve going to a second country [no more Haj]
4. Forbid the speaking of Arabic
5. Forbid them to have halal butchers or to have their own banks
6. Make the five prostrations to Mecca impossible

The important thing is to weaken the bonds which join Muslims - if the very things which make Islam possible as a shared way of life are destroyed, Islam will be destroyed. So: make the observance of their taboo practices & their distinctively Muslim practices impossible. ##

I hope the moderators can remove this post. I dont think posts about how to destroy Islam and Muslims should be allowed on the forum.

 

[r.gonzales]

i was born and raised in the county in which i currently reside. i’m also a convert to islam and much of my family is still christian - most catholic and some protestant.

has the thought ever crossed your mind that some muslims may be in the same situation as i? or perhaps they were born into muslim families and are not converts, but whose families were/are ignorant of their religion and came to the west thinking there was nothing wrong with it.

perhaps, they came here for a specific purpose, whether it’s business, other types of work, or school…

and btw, if you hate saudi so much - or perhaps its just muslims and islam - what are you doing in saudi? why don’t you go back where you came from?

 

[MugenOne]

I’m not hating the Saudis nor Muslims or Islam. I have wonderful Saudi counterparts. I’m in Saud Arabia because my uncle, Sam, wants me here. And I’ll leave it as that.