A modesty question

[on_the_hill]

If a person has physical characteristics that are generally associated with sexual attractiveness, is there an expectation that the person should dress more modestly than others, in an effort to downplay the attributes?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

If a person has physical characteristics that are generally associated with sexual attractiveness, is there an expectation that the person should dress more modestly than others, in an effort to downplay the attributes?

Do you mean that a woman who has a ‘well-endowed chest’ (even though breasts are for feeding babies, not male sex fantasies) should be sure to wear a dense, heavy ‘tent’ top and not anything ‘fitted’? Or that a man with six pack abs should likewise wear something like a loose Hawaiian shirt?

Why oh why is common sense so blasted uncommon today???:banghead:

What is ‘more modest’ than modest? Do we have degrees now? Based on ‘sexual attractiveness’ yet? What about men with a foot fetish. . .should a woman with a really great looking foot have to wear crocs instead of a pump??

Or how about hair? If we of either sex have really terrific hair, must we cram it under a greasy ballcap now when we venture outside? Hair is a real sexual turnon to many, after all. . .

And how do WE judge, anyway? Are we going to have 'attractiveness police?" What if we think we aren’t so attractive, but the attractiveness policy jump out at us and insist we must ‘dress down?’ How embarrassing. . .

and WORSE, what if we have tried to tone down our attractiveness, and the attractiveness police come by and jerk off our ballcap because "YOUR hair isn’t sexy enough for you to dress it down’. . .imagine how awful a person would feel. Especially if they were out in public with their boyfriend/girlfriend. . .who might even dump them for not being attractive enough. . .I see lawsuits abounding. . .'Sue the Catholic Church. . .they said I was not attractive enough. . .or that I was TOO attractive. . .and it RUINED MY LIFE. . .

 

[on_the_hill]

Well…yes. That’s what I’m asking, as ridiculous as it seems. :yup:

It’s not beyond the realm of possibilities. There was a woman who was fired from her job in an office because of her figure and the clothes she wore to work. She wore professional pants suits and skirt suits. The bosses claimed she was too much of a distraction. Lawsuit filed. I don’t know if she won or not.

I agree, it is sort of a dumb, ‘do we want to go there?’ question. And yet…I can easily imagine someone saying, “She/he should be aware, and she/he ought to do what can be done to cover up more.”

 

[firead]

I would hope not. If so, it’s unfair because it’s not based on actual modesty, which should be the same standard for everyone, but on shaming or punishing a woman just for being attractive. That is wrong.

The lawsuit was sort of the same thing, and also wrong. There was a similar case with a dental hygienist, who wore scrubs to work and still lost the case. It was based on the boss’ wife’s jealousy and the lack of trust in their relationship and not on anything the woman herself did wrong.

 

[Galbin]

Absolutely not!!! God made me who I am and that is large breasted. I am much happier wearing well fitting clothing than I was in baggy tents! I want to celebrate my hourglass figure the way others can celebrate their great cheekbones, big lips, great eyes etc. BTW, this does not involve me wearing low cut clothing, just pretty dresses and such. Why should large chested women be denied the pleasure of nice clothing?

 

[GEddie]

Meow.

Where is all of this is any call for people to keep their eyes and minds on what they are doing, and not blame the appearance of others for their own concupiscence???

ICXC NIKA.

 

[Cricket2]

Well…yes. That’s what I’m asking, as ridiculous as it seems. :yup:

It’s not beyond the realm of possibilities. There was a woman who was fired from her job in an office because of her figure and the clothes she wore to work. She wore professional pants suits and skirt suits. The bosses claimed she was too much of a distraction. Lawsuit filed. I don’t know if she won or not.

I agree, it is sort of a dumb, ‘do we want to go there?’ question. And yet…I can easily imagine someone saying, “She/he should be aware, and she/he ought to do what can be done to cover up more.”

I think this was a dentist and his wife insisted that the woman be fired. If it is this case the “fired woman” lost the case. The whole thing is ridiculous.

When younger I was viewed by many as very attractive. I did wear very modest clothing out of desire and habit. There was not skirt shorter than mid-shin, no tight pants or super short shorts, and my blouses usually were long sleeved and buttoned just below the neck. I had no desire to “show off” my figure and felt it inappropriate to do so.

I don’t think low top or blouse lines are attractive for the most part and these days, most could hardly be called modest. Skirts that are above the knee or mid thigh are just too short in my opinion, and no clothing should be worn so tight that the viewer has nothing to guess at. It is strange to my how folks find such clothing or view such clothing as attractive. It generally is not.

And for those that may have problems with weight, which I now have, it seems best to wear clothing that is looser in fit versus tighter. All the really tight stuff does not make us look thinner and is not attractive at all. All the tight clothing does is reveal just how “chubby” we may be and where all that excess weight lives. (This is not to insult anyone…a lot of us have weight issues due to hormone changes, age, illnesses and medications. It is also due to excess eating, but not in all cases.)

 

[FrenzyJen]

I think you do need to be more careful when you have “more to love” in certain spots, but no need to be ashamed of the body you were given.

On the opposite side of the coin, the only time in my life that I have ever had breasts was when I was nursing. Before and since then, I have NO breasts. So I feel like I have a bit more freedom in shirts because there certainly isn’t anything there to get excited about. But it doesn’t mean I go around topless. As with big breasts, I think you need to be slightly more mindful, but not obsess over it.

 

[crenfro]

Hello.

As I see it, it boils down to motive.

Do I care about leading someone into the near occasion of sin? Is it more important for me to do what I want when I want it? Am I seeking attention? Could I focus more on what is best for others?

I guess those are the sort of thoughts I’d have in mind when choosing what to wear.

Who do I care about the most and how interested am I in being pleasing to the Lord.

…just my opinion…please take or leave…

 

[Jennifoo]

Hi there. I think you ask an interesting question, but also a difficult one because of one main reason: standards for physical attractiveness change. What was considered the ultimate of feminine attractiveness in the 1800s was different than what is now considered attractive.

For myself, I like my figure, work hard to maintain it and dress my body in fitted, but not tight or immodest clothing. Years ago when I was significantly overweight, I used to be rather large-chested. When I lost weight I went down to a more normal size and it was a big relief as it was much easier to find nice tops that wouldn’t look immodest but would still flatter my figure.

It seems to me that each one has to really examine themselves and their motives in how they dress and try their best to be modest, but not obsess about it. And I think it important to remember that modest does not have to be ugly or dowdy in any way.

Hope this helps. God bless your desire to be modest and to be a good Catholic. May the Lord richly bless you this Lenten Season.

 

[Vico]

If a person has physical characteristics that are generally associated with sexual attractiveness, is there an expectation that the person should dress more modestly than others, in an effort to downplay the attributes?

Modesty is the virtue to have and with a greater degree, approaches the Christlike life. And there are several meanings to modest (adverb) to be practiced:1) not vain or boastful,
2) not forward,
3) decent,
4) not extreme,
5) quite* and *humble in appearance or style.
Number 1 is anti-vainglory. There is much in modesty about countering pride, not only to avoid giving scandal.

 

[edwest2]

Absolutely not!!! God made me who I am and that is large breasted. I am much happier wearing well fitting clothing than I was in baggy tents! I want to celebrate my hourglass figure the way others can celebrate their great cheekbones, big lips, great eyes etc. BTW, this does not involve me wearing low cut clothing, just pretty dresses and such. Why should large chested women be denied the pleasure of nice clothing?

I am close friends with a woman with the body shape you describe. She wears beautiful blouses, skirts that cover the knees and pants made of a stretchy material with an appropriate top. She knows exactly what kind of attention she would draw if she dressed otherwise.

The issue is not access to nice clothing. The issue is presenting oneself modestly in public. In the past, the way a woman “carried herself” included poise and a walking gait that was natural as opposed to flamboyant. I have no idea why some women forgot they have a waist but choose to wear pants that do not include the use of that natural accessory for support. For example, a full-figured woman walked in front of me and had to pull her pants up after several steps because they barely got to the top of her hips. I call that struggling, not walking.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Petaro]

I am personally outraged at how many beautiful people don’t seem to recognise the effect they have on others.
It is not just a female thing either.
When I was younger, many called me a bronzed Anzac and was a bit of a chick magnet.

OK when I was single, but when I married to my beautiful wife, we both agreed on a mutual recognition of our combined attractiveness. She still calls me her stud muffin, but we try to go to different masses to avoid distraction and temptations to lust. Modesty is now almost second nature to us now, without any vain thought entering our minds. My wife has told me in confidence that she sometimes finds it difficult to be humble when she is so pretty. I can fully understand. We have separate cars to avoid the rash of traffic accidents that occurred when we started dating.
Of course we never frequent the public beaches, and find modesty of dress entails great planning and much calico.
Threads such as this give us concern that many of the beautiful people will start to dumb down their natural attractiveness and thus perversely make our lives that much harder.

 

[SuperLuigi]

If a person has physical characteristics that are generally associated with sexual attractiveness, is there an expectation that the person should dress more modestly than others, in an effort to downplay the attributes?

Essentially the question is does an attractive person have an obligation to dress up more than a less attractive person.

Obligation is a heavy term in morality and should not be taken lightly. In morality, intention also matters.

I would say it really gets to a point too where people need to control their urges and their thoughts. That comes with first being properly catechized.

We’ve also all heard the phrase “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”, right?

Also, in the Western world most people probably dress based on the weather more than anything else.

 

[Nelka]

Also, in the Western world most people probably dress based on the weather more than anything else.

Yes, I wear a jumper for about 11 months and then spend one month complaining that it is too hot.

I can’t handle anything more than 70’ anyway.

 

[GEddie]

Yes, I wear a jumper for about 11 months and then spend one month complaining that it is too hot.

I can’t handle anything more than 70’ anyway.

Wow.

You should come here to work off your Purgatory!

70 F is an average WINTER temperature around here!!!



We are literally hotter than Hell (Hell, Michigan).

ICXC NIKA

 

[on_the_hill]

I am personally outraged at how many beautiful people don’t seem to recognise the effect they have on others.
It is not just a female thing either.
When I was younger, many called me a bronzed Anzac and was a bit of a chick magnet.

OK when I was single, but when I married to my beautiful wife, we both agreed on a mutual recognition of our combined attractiveness. She still calls me her stud muffin, but we try to go to different masses to avoid distraction and temptations to lust. Modesty is now almost second nature to us now, without any vain thought entering our minds. My wife has told me in confidence that she sometimes finds it difficult to be humble when she is so pretty. I can fully understand. We have separate cars to avoid the rash of traffic accidents that occurred when we started dating.
Of course we never frequent the public beaches, and find modesty of dress entails great planning and much calico.
Threads such as this give us concern that many of the beautiful people will start to dumb down their natural attractiveness and thus perversely make our lives that much harder.

:bowdown2:

I found myself in a similar situation when my wife and I were dating. She forbade me to wear certain clothes unless she was with me because I was too good looking to be straight.

 

[Galbin]

I am close friends with a woman with the body shape you describe. She wears beautiful blouses, skirts that cover the knees and pants made of a stretchy material with an appropriate top. She knows exactly what kind of attention she would draw if she dressed otherwise.

The issue is not access to nice clothing. The issue is presenting oneself modestly in public. In the past, the way a woman “carried herself” included poise and a walking gait that was natural as opposed to flamboyant. I have no idea why some women forgot they have a waist but choose to wear pants that do not include the use of that natural accessory for support. For example, a full-figured woman walked in front of me and had to pull her pants up after several steps because they barely got to the top of her hips. I call that struggling, not walking.

Well, I find women with hourglass figures are often told to ‘cover it up’ and wear shapeless, stretchy clothing. This is what I mean why I say that often we are basically told we cannot wear the ‘nice’ clothing that other women wear. The fact of the matter though is that I am a woman and thus my shape will drastically differ from a man’s no matter what I wear! Therefore, my wearing clothing that fits my body should not be an issue. I am who I am. I don’t feel comfortable in low cut clothing, but if I did want to wear such a dress I would only ever wear it at a nightclub or some other such place. I wouldn’t wear it to a baptism!!

 

[on_the_hill]

I think there may also be an attitude of “She/he is showing off on purpose.” When, in fact, that might not be the case at all.

 

[edwest2]

I think there may also be an attitude of “She/he is showing off on purpose.” When, in fact, that might not be the case at all.

We don’t know. It depends on the individual. Everyone should just be honest with herself. Sadly, in order to sell product, fashion designers and makeup producers have to convince women that if you aren’t wearing or using this, the guys won’t notice or ‘you deserve it’ or ‘use this cream and look younger.’ I understand the pressure this puts on women. Even in this economy, I see small ‘hair and nails’ shops all over. Sadly, in the case of certain types of clothing, the trend is to make it OK to show more skin, following by shaving off a little more material as time passes. Why?

Peace,
Ed