A moral conundrum

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I’m generally a “masterly inactivity” guy, except when playing with RPR Junior, but I recently stumbled upon something that bothers me. :confused:

Though I do not attend (and have never attended) an SSPX chapel, they do have chapels in several cities in India, and I check their website / local newsletter for any interesting news / developments when tI have the time.

While doing so, I found out that they were planning to hold a programme (I’m being deliberately vague about the details; I leave detecting to the detectives ;)) in a Catholic college in a particular city.

Now here’s the rub: *said college, though “Catholic” and enjoying governmental status as a “minority institution” (we’re talking about India, remember), is pretty much the living definition of “Catholic in name only”. I know this because a close family member spent almost half their lives working their.

They are sympathetic to the “gay agenda” (and how :rolleyes:), have people who self-identify as “queer activists”, tinkered with their college song to delete a reference to chastity, and have even staged a performance of the Female Reproductive Organ Monologues (I’m bowdlerizing here.) Also, various liturgical and doctrinal wackiness which would be tedious to describe, including feminist and liberation theology. Basically, the “spirit of Vatican II” minus (thankfully) any pro-abortion stuff. :nope:*

Now, the local SSPX is presumably unaware of this entire backstory, as you’d need to be working there (or related to someone who worked there, as I am) in order to know all this stuff. They’re probably just renting the space because it’s close by and “Catholic”. This could prove to be an embarrassment for them if they (or anyone in the official Church) come to know about it later.

Do I have a duty to mail them and warn them about this stuff, or would that be detraction?Or should I just ignore it, as it’s not really any of my business? Any suggestions would be appreciated. 😃
 
RPRPsych said:
I’m generally a “masterly inactivity” guy, except when playing with RPR Junior, but I recently stumbled upon something that bothers me. :confused:

Though I do not attend (and have never attended) an SSPX chapel, they do have chapels in several cities in India, and I check their website / local newsletter for any interesting news / developments when tI have the time.

While doing so, I found out that they were planning to hold a programme (I’m being deliberately vague about the details; I leave detecting to the detectives ;)) in a Catholic college in a particular city.

Now here’s the rub: *said college, though “Catholic” and enjoying governmental status as a “minority institution” (we’re talking about India, remember), is pretty much the living definition of “Catholic in name only”. I know this because a close family member spent almost half their lives working their.

They are sympathetic to the “gay agenda” (and how :rolleyes:), have people who self-identify as “queer activists”, tinkered with their college song to delete a reference to chastity, and have even staged a performance of the Female Reproductive Organ Monologues (I’m bowdlerizing here.) Also, various liturgical and doctrinal wackiness which would be tedious to describe, including feminist and liberation theology. Basically, the “spirit of Vatican II” minus (thankfully) any pro-abortion stuff. :nope:*

Now, the local SSPX is presumably unaware of this entire backstory, as you’d need to be working there (or related to someone who worked there, as I am) in order to know all this stuff. They’re probably just renting the space because it’s close by and “Catholic”. This could prove to be an embarrassment for them if they (or anyone in the official Church) come to know about it later.

Do I have a duty to mail them and warn them about this stuff, or would that be detraction?Or should I just ignore it, as it’s not really any of my business? Any suggestions would be appreciated. 😃
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Well…it seems to me, as a priest, you would be doing an act of charity to the group by attempting to clue in the regional superior on issues he may or may not be aware. He may or may not be open to taking information from you…if they are, it would be to their greater knowledge and if they are not…oh well.

You should also inform the local diocese of this pending presence so that they may take action if they are not aware, most notably the Vicar for Clergy.

It was a straightforward, if not pleasant encounter, in my day in which the SSPX were summarily informed by our diocese that
  • They were forbidden to wear clerical attire in public or present themselves as Catholic priests in good standing since they were suspened a divinis with their case remanded to Rome.
  • Their presence was rejected and forbidden by the diocesan bishop
  • They could not licitly celebrate Mass in the territory of the diocese
  • Or licitly celebrate any sacrament, except in danger of death.
  • Confession and marriage was invalid. (Of course, for the remainder of the Year of Mercy, the penitents at least that they will attempt to absolve will be validly absolved by the direct intervention of Pope Francis; there is no mercy for the marriages however.)
  • We always promised them that, should they renounce Lefebvre and reject their errors, our door would be open and we would provide them all assistance…and that we would also help them work through the reconciliation process the Holy Father established so that they could, at last, be priests in good standing, lawfully incardinated somewhere they would be comfortable, and in full communion with the Church of Rome and her Supreme Pontiff. An occasional one would, here and there. They were welcomed from their errors.
Terribly sad situation. I knew a few in the beginning who returned to Communion with the Church and became part of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter. It was so sad that the others were more loyal to Lefebvre than to the Vicar of Christ. :nope:
 
Don_Ruggero said:
Well…it seems to me, as a priest, you would be doing an act of charity to the group by attempting to clue in the regional superior on issues he may or may not be aware. He may or may not be open to taking information from you…if they are, it would be to their greater knowledge and if they are not…oh well.

**You should also inform the local diocese of this pending presence so that they may take action if they are not aware, most notably the Vicar for Clergy. **

It was a straightforward, if not pleasant encounter, in my day in which the SSPX were summarily informed by our diocese that
  • They were forbidden to wear clerical attire in public or present themselves as Catholic priests in good standing since they were suspened a divinis with their case remanded to Rome.
  • Their presence was rejected and forbidden by the diocesan bishop
  • They could not licitly celebrate Mass in the territory of the diocese
  • Or licitly celebrate any sacrament, except in danger of death.
  • Confession and marriage was invalid. (Of course, for the remainder of the Year of Mercy, the penitents at least that they will attempt to absolve will be validly absolved by the direct intervention of Pope Francis; there is no mercy for the marriages however.)
  • We always promised them that, should they renounce Lefebvre and reject their errors, our door would be open and we would provide them all assistance…and that we would also help them work through the reconciliation process the Holy Father established so that they could, at last, be priests in good standing, lawfully incardinated somewhere they would be comfortable, and in full communion with the Church of Rome and her Supreme Pontiff. An occasional one would, here and there. They were welcomed from their errors.
Terribly sad situation. I knew a few in the beginning who returned to Communion with the Church and became part of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter. It was so sad that the others were more loyal to Lefebvre than to the Vicar of Christ. :nope:
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(Bold mine)

Thank you for your gracious reply, Father. 👍

It appears that they have a “contact form” on their website, so I shall make use of it and see what happens.

As for informing the local diocese, I must confess that this never occurred to me. It is entirely possible that this chapel is being without their knowledge, as even relatives of mine who live nearby were not aware of its status. Perhaps I can contact them by e-mail. 🙂
 
RPRPsych said:
(Bold mine)

Thank you for your gracious reply, Father. 👍

It appears that they have a “contact form” on their website, so I shall make use of it and see what happens.

As for informing the local diocese, I must confess that this never occurred to me. It is entirely possible that this chapel is being without their knowledge, as even relatives of mine who live nearby were not aware of its status. Perhaps I can contact them by e-mail. 🙂
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I can only assure that we were more kindly disposed when we (the curia) found out before everyone was installed and in place. On the other hand, if the bishop of the diocese had been actually ignored in this process, it was adding insult to injury and merely chilled what little civility might have been mustered.
 
RPRPsych said:
I’m generally a “masterly inactivity” guy, except when playing with RPR Junior, but I recently stumbled upon something that bothers me. :confused:

Though I do not attend (and have never attended) an SSPX chapel, they do have chapels in several cities in India, and I check their website / local newsletter for any interesting news / developments when tI have the time.

While doing so, I found out that they were planning to hold a programme (I’m being deliberately vague about the details; I leave detecting to the detectives ;)) in a Catholic college in a particular city.

Now here’s the rub: *said college, though “Catholic” and enjoying governmental status as a “minority institution” (we’re talking about India, remember), is pretty much the living definition of “Catholic in name only”. I know this because a close family member spent almost half their lives working their.

They are sympathetic to the “gay agenda” (and how :rolleyes:), have people who self-identify as “queer activists”, tinkered with their college song to delete a reference to chastity, and have even staged a performance of the Female Reproductive Organ Monologues (I’m bowdlerizing here.) Also, various liturgical and doctrinal wackiness which would be tedious to describe, including feminist and liberation theology. Basically, the “spirit of Vatican II” minus (thankfully) any pro-abortion stuff. :nope:*

Now, the local SSPX is presumably unaware of this entire backstory, as you’d need to be working there (or related to someone who worked there, as I am) in order to know all this stuff. They’re probably just renting the space because it’s close by and “Catholic”. This could prove to be an embarrassment for them if they (or anyone in the official Church) come to know about it later.

Do I have a duty to mail them and warn them about this stuff, or would that be detraction?Or should I just ignore it, as it’s not really any of my business? Any suggestions would be appreciated. 😃
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I would wager that they probably know the situation with the venue, having missions in India for many years. I would imagine that the space is just convenient/cheap/etc. I wouldn’t worry about them being influenced by “… the various liturgical and doctrinal wackiness…” you say is prevalent at that Catholic college. Not sure why you think it would be an embarrassment if the “official church” found out about it later. We have plenty of Catholic universities in the U.S. in the same situation. A prominent Catholic university in the Washington,DC area held a performance of the same “… monologues” without public comment from the Archbishop responsible for the diocese.
 
RPRPsych said:
… would that be detraction?
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I’m not sure. I suspect not.

The catechism teaches:
2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:

— of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;

— of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;

— of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.
So a few questions are:

Does the university’s reputation need to be respected in the same way as that of a person? It might be argued that individual reputations are tied to the university’s reputation. On the other hand, we recognize that not all members of the university community are guilty of those things, so the reputations of persons are to some extent “decoupled” from the reputation of the university.

Do you have “objectively valid reason” to disclose the faults and failings of the university community?

Since these faults and failings are public knowledge, would you really be disclosing anything?
 
Same here. If I were in that situation, I’d keep quiet and just act astounded when they bring each other down in flames.

“Gracious,” I’d say, “How on earth did two such respectable organizations lose their entire memberships in such a short space of time?”
 
RPRPsych said:
As for informing the local diocese, I must confess that this never occurred to me. It is entirely possible that this chapel is being without their knowledge, as even relatives of mine who live nearby were not aware of its status. Perhaps I can contact them by e-mail. 🙂
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Hard to imagine the local diocese is unaware of their presence.
 
giuseppeTO said:
I would wager that they probably know the situation with the venue, having missions in India for many years. I would imagine that the space is just convenient/cheap/etc. I wouldn’t worry about them being influenced by “… the various liturgical and doctrinal wackiness…” you say is prevalent at that Catholic college. Not sure why you think it would be an embarrassment if the “official church” found out about it later. We have plenty of Catholic universities in the U.S. in the same situation. A prominent Catholic university in the Washington,DC area held a performance of the same “… monologues” without public comment from the Archbishop responsible for the diocese.
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Thanks for the information! Always good to have a viewpoint from someone who belongs to the SSPX. 👍 As for why it would be an embarrassment - well, I don’t know on what terms the SSPX and the official church are in India. I have a sneaking suspicion they either don’t know much about each other, or don’t get on too well.
Beryllos said:
What does that mean?
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I generally follow a policy of non-interference in similar matters where they are of a secular nature. 😃
 
The conondrum based on your intelligence approves a legal concept of love. You must adhere to the possibility to believe in eternal law.
 
My thoughts too. Somewhat akin to the irresistible force meeting the immovable object…

I will see you and raise you $.95.

🤷
 
They are sympathetic to the “gay agenda” (and how :rolleyes:), have people who self-identify as “queer activists”,

Could you verify this statement?.

This sounds out of character for the SSPX. I have always known them to follow a traditional view on this.
 
djames99 said:
They are sympathetic to the “gay agenda” (and how :rolleyes:), have people who self-identify as “queer activists”,

Could you verify this statement?.

This sounds out of character for the SSPX. I have always known them to follow a traditional view on this.
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Read the OP again; you have it backwards.
 
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