A moral right to euthanasia?

[jonathan_hili]

Hi all.

If it is argued that people have a right, be it moral or legal (based in some respects on a human’s intrinsic natural right), to euthanasia, doesn’t it follow that people also have a right to commit suicide?

Now, it may be argued that the “right” is conditional on, for example, unremitting pain or one’s state of consciousness, but I can’t see how any of these conditions don’t also justify suicide.

If a person has a debilitating cancer and has no chance of pain relief, it may be argued that this justifies euthanasia, principally if the patient thinks so. However, a teenager suffering from a broken heart would also consider that his or her pain will last a life-time and want to die.

Why is our society, which seems so willing to allow old people to commit suicide, so unwilling to let young people commit suicide?

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Why is our society, which seems so willing to allow old people to commit suicide, so unwilling to let young people commit suicide?

Because it has discarded the use of the brain in answering questions.

 

[R_C]

If a person has a debilitating cancer and has no chance of pain relief, it may be argued that this justifies euthanasia, principally if the patient thinks so

May God forgive me, but I do not think that suicide or homicide are ever justified. I cannot see how would it be possible for someone to have no chance of pain relief but have availability of the expensive drugs used for euthanasia - unless we are willing to allow other, more cruent methods for lack of more humane options.

The issue I see with euthanasia is the same one I see for abortion: everyone focuses on the extreme cases (the man dying with no way to alleviate the excruciating pain, the unwanted pregnancy due to sexual assault), but if the practice of death is authorized, then those end up being the 1% or 0.5% of the cases subject to such practice. In abortion in the US we have over 1 million unborn killed, only 1% of which were conceived as a result of sexual assault - the rest, according to statistics, being in the vast majority conceived as a result of premarital consensual sex.

It is not rocket science to realize that if euthanasia is legalized, we will have many, many people killing themselves when the issue was perhaps one of depression rather than a truly excruciating and unbearable life. Remember the 45-year-old Belgian brothers who chose euthanasia rather than going blind? Remember the 58-year-old man who was left paralyzed by a stroke and wanted to die? Is this what we want for our society? Middle-aged (or less than middle-aged) people that prefer to kill themselves rather than bear a disability?

 

[TarkanAttila]

The argument goes something like this: because the old person is nearing the end of their lives, and the only thing they foresee in their futures is pain, they’d rather end it now while rather than wait a week to six months in pain and agony. Oh, the pain and agony!

Life is pain, isn’t it? Not only pain, but a fair deal of pain, isn’t it? Why prolong it, then? Why not cut our losses and just nuke this godforsaken rock and end everyone’s pain for all time?

Because that wouldn’t be PC.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

May God forgive me, but I do not think that suicide or homicide are ever justified. I cannot see how would it be possible for someone to have no chance of pain relief but have availability of the expensive drugs used for euthanasia - unless we are willing to allow other, more cruent methods for lack of more humane options.

The issue I see with euthanasia is the same one I see for abortion: everyone focuses on the extreme cases (the man dying with no way to alleviate the excruciating pain, the unwanted pregnancy due to sexual assault), but if the practice of death is authorized, then those end up being the 1% or 0.5% of the cases subject to such practice. In abortion in the US we have over 1 million unborn killed, only 1% of which were conceived as a result of sexual assault - the rest, according to statistics, being in the vast majority conceived as a result of premarital consensual sex.

It is not rocket science to realize that if euthanasia is legalized, we will have many, many people killing themselves when the issue was perhaps one of depression rather than a truly excruciating and unbearable life. Remember the 45-year-old Belgian brothers who chose euthanasia rather than going blind? Remember the 58-year-old man who was left paralyzed by a stroke and wanted to die? Is this what we want for our society? Middle-aged (or less than middle-aged) people that prefer to kill themselves rather than bear a disability?

I agree 100% that suicide is never permissible, I just find it interesting the mental hoops that people will jump through to try to justify it some cases and not in others based solely on which direction their heartstrings are plucked.

 

[jonathan_hili]

The argument goes something like this: because the old person is nearing the end of their lives, and the only thing they foresee in their futures is pain, they’d rather end it now while rather than wait a week to six months in pain and agony. Oh, the pain and agony!

Life is pain, isn’t it? Not only pain, but a fair deal of pain, isn’t it? Why prolong it, then? Why not cut our losses and just nuke this godforsaken rock and end everyone’s pain for all time?

Because that wouldn’t be PC.

Yeah, I’ve heard that argument a number of times. But the moral basis seems to be unendurable pain. But surely this is a subjective basis, since some people are able to endure pains that others cannot? I still don’t see how this can subvert the agonising broken-hearted teen objection.

Oh, is that avatar pic Rasputin?

 

[Iron_Donkey]

The argument goes something like this: because the old person is nearing the end of their lives, and the only thing they foresee in their futures is pain, they’d rather end it now while rather than wait a week to six months in pain and agony. Oh, the pain and agony!

Life is pain, isn’t it?

And anyone who says differently is selling something.

(For a minute I almost deleted that above line in case anyone didn’t catch the reference, but then I decided that that would be inconceivable.)

Not only pain, but a fair deal of pain, isn’t it? Why prolong it, then? Why not cut our losses and just nuke this godforsaken rock and end everyone’s pain for all time?

Because that wouldn’t be PC.

This is indeed the end result of that argument, and the only counter argument is that even a life full of pain is worth living.

 

[cheezey]

And anyone who says differently is selling something.

(For a minute I almost deleted that above line in case anyone didn’t catch the reference, but then I decided that that would be inconceivable.)

This is indeed the end result of that argument, and the only counter argument is that even a life full of pain is worth living.

Of course it is.
Sometimes difficult to know/see/feel/live this while in agonizing pain, though.
Of course it is. And I wouldn’t presume to know what was in the heart of one who commits suicide. It must take unbearable pain to prefer death over agonizing pain. It is always a shame when this happens. Always.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Of course it is.
Sometimes difficult to know/see/feel/live this while in agonizing pain, though.
Of course it is. And I wouldn’t presume to know what was in the heart of one who commits suicide. It must take unbearable pain to prefer death over agonizing pain. It is always a shame when this happens. Always.

Oh yes. And I also didn’t mean to imply that experiencing such constant long term excruciating pain cannot cloud a person’s judgement (or even that if such happened to me that I would necessarily hold up any better, though I hope that I would), or that all such people are entirely culpable for their actions.

Rather, it is true that suicide is never justified, and it is true that some people are in so much pain that they wrongly, but to some extent understandably, come to believe that it is, and it is further true that each such case is a tragedy and that we should pray that they experience God’s mercy.

 

[cheezey]

Oh yes. And I also didn’t mean to imply that experiencing such constant long term excruciating pain cannot cloud a person’s judgement (or even that if such happened to me that I would necessarily hold up any better, though I hope that I would), or that all such people are entirely culpable for their actions.

Rather, it is true that suicide is never justified, and it is true that some people are in so much pain that they wrongly, but to some extent understandably, come to believe that it is, and it is further true that each such case is a tragedy and that we should pray that they experience God’s mercy.

 

[Edward_H]

I saw an interesting article the other night in the Guardian (secular) on suffering and death.

Great point.

His point was that he hoped he WOULD be a burden to his loved ones as he neared death…and they WOULD be a burden to him if they went first.

Beautiful point.

Love DEMANDS sacrifice. When love (i.e., sacrifice) is given with abandonment an enormous burst of grace occurs within a family, between friends.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

The thing is though, how do we define euthanasia? Because very very often now, when a person is in the last stages of cancer or some other disease, morphine is dispensed to them in a low dose, which alleviates their pain, and at the same time shortens their life. Basically, they are being killed by the morphine, and without it, would suffer and linger on longer in pain.

 

[JimG]

The thing is though, how do we define euthanasia? Because very very often now, when a person is in the last stages of cancer or some other disease, morphine is dispensed to them in a low dose, which alleviates their pain, and at the same time shortens their life. Basically, they are being killed by the morphine, and without it, would suffer and linger on longer in pain.

As long as the morphine is given for pain and not with intent to kill, it would not be suicide or homicide.

Giving a person a lethal dose for the specific intent of killing them would be suicide or homicide.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

As long as the morphine is given for pain and not with intent to kill, it would not be suicide or homicide.

Giving a person a lethal dose for the specific intent of killing them would be suicide or homicide.

Yes but it actually does shorten their lives.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Yes but it actually does shorten their lives.

True, but this is an unfortunate side effect. We are not bound to avoid all such unfortunate side effects at all cost, only to not make them the point of the action.