A Mormon Hymn: If You Could Hie to Kolob

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Here is the video:

youtube.com/watch?v=WwYm_mKQ3Gs&feature=related

Here are the words:
If You Could Hie to Kolob, 284 – William W. Phelps
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  1. If you could hie to Kolob In the twinkling of an eye,
    And then continue onward With that same speed to fly,
    Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity,
    Find out the generation Where Gods began to be?
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  1. Or see the grand beginning, Where space did not extend?
    Or view the last creation, Where Gods and matter end?
    Me thinks the Spirit whispers, “No man has found ‘pure space,’
    Nor seen the outside curtains, Where nothing has a place.”
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  1. The works of God continue, And worlds and lives abound;
    Improvement and progression Have one eternal round.
    There is no end to matter; There is no end to space;
    There is no end to spirit; There is no end to race.
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  1. There is no end to virtue; There is no end to might;
    There is no end to wisdom; There is no end to light.
    There is no end to union; There is no end to youth;
    There is no end to priesthood; There is no end to truth.
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  1. There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
    There is no end to being; There is no death above.
    There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
    There is no end to being; There is no death above.
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Pearl of Great Price: Abraham: Chapter 3
1 And I, Abraham, had the Urim and Thummim, which the Lord my God had given unto me, in Ur of the Chaldees;
2 And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it;
3 And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.
4 And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord’s time, according to the reckoning of Kolob.
5 And the Lord said unto me: The planet which is the lesser light, lesser than that which is to rule the day, even the night, is above or greater than that upon which thou standest in point of reckoning, for it moveth in order more slow; this is in order because it standeth above the earth upon which thou standest, therefore the reckoning of its time is not so many as to its number of days, and of months, and of years.
6 And the Lord said unto me: Now, Abraham, these two facts exist, behold thine eyes see it; it is given unto thee to know the times of reckoning, and the set time, yea, the set time of the earth upon which thou standest, and the set time of the greater light which is set to rule the day, and the set time of the lesser light which is set to rule the night.
7 Now the set time of the lesser light is a longer time as to its reckoning than the reckoning of the time of the earth upon which thou standest.
8 And where these two facts exist, there shall be another fact above them, that is, there shall be another planet whose reckoning of time shall be longer still;
9 And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord’s time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.
10 And it is given unto thee to know the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God.
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It is a beautiful song. I brought this up on the forum a while ago: when former lds members claim that they knew nothing about kolob, they forgot to look at the lds hymnal where the song is listed.
 
why_me said:
It is a beautiful song. I brought this up on the forum a while ago: when former lds members claim that they knew nothing about kolob, they forgot to look at the lds hymnal where the song is listed.
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Since you are a Catholic do you agree with the notion that we can’t find the generation where Gods began to be?
 
I like the sound of this “hymn”. Even though it’s so utterly weird and science-fictiony. 🙂
 
We had a thread on this “hymn” quite some time ago.
Mormons always claim to have not heard it or give some convoluted explaination of it.
Bottom line: there is no “Kolob” except in the mormon fairy tale.
 
Not trying to stir anything up here…is Kolob the source for BSG’s Kobol?
 
TheosisM said:
I do as well. The tune is actually called “Dives and Lazarus”. I was at Daily Mass at the National Shrine one day and I was surprised to hear a hymn with the tune. Loved it.
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Why would be surprised to hear a hymn with same tune? It happens all the time.
Twinkle twinkle little star…
ABCDEFG…
 
lax16 said:
Why would be surprised to hear a hymn with same tune? It happens all the time.
Twinkle twinkle little star…
ABCDEFG…
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Because until that time I assumed that the tune was uniquely LDS for If You Could Hie to Kolob since that was the only context that I heard it in. Then I heard it at Mass and discovered “Dives and Lazarus”.
 
TheosisM said:
Because until that time I assumed that the tune was uniquely LDS for If You Could Hie to Kolob since that was the only context that I heard it in. Then I heard it at Mass and discovered “Dives and Lazarus”.
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Theosis - So that I can understand you better, what is your religion?
You mention going to daily mass yet you have had prior knowledge of an LDS hymn regarding Kolob which makes me think you are/were LDS.

Obviously, if this is private, no need to answer.
 
lax16 said:
Theosis - So that I can understand you better, what is your religion?
You mention going to daily mass yet you have had prior knowledge of an LDS hymn regarding Kolob which makes me think you are/were LDS.

Obviously, if this is private, no need to answer.
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I’m Catholic, and have researched and considered Mormonism on and off for about 8 years. I’ve read the “anti” stuff, the LDS apologetics, and even the books advertised on this website. I was at the National Shrine because I attended Georgetown University, and wasn’t a fan of some of the Masses on campus (liturgical abuses, which I wrote about in the school newspaper). If you’ve been to the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, I’m sure you understand.

“If You Could Hie to Kolob” has a number of unique LDS teachings embedded into it (which is perhaps why Catholic20064 posted this thread), so it’s pretty known to those that research Mormonism (if only for the reference to “Kolob”).
 
TheosisM said:
I’m Catholic, and have researched and considered Mormonism on and off for about 8 years. I’ve read the “anti” stuff, the LDS apologetics, and even the books advertised on this website. I was at the National Shrine because I attended Georgetown University, and wasn’t a fan of some of the Masses on campus (liturgical abuses, which I wrote about in the school newspaper). If you’ve been to the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, I’m sure you understand.

“If You Could Hie to Kolob” has a number of unique LDS teachings embedded into it (which is perhaps why Catholic20064 posted this thread), so it’s pretty known to those that research Mormonism (if only for the reference to “Kolob”).
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Thanks for sharing Theosis. It makes more sense now!
Are you still considering Mormonism? (You don’t have to answer if you don’t want to or if you feel that is off topic).
In reference to the hymn, I’ve “hung out” with Mormons for 20+ years, attended several of their church activities, live in Utah, and still have never heard of it. Perhaps it is known to those who are serious investigators.
 
I think the song is beautiful…the words are haunting as well. For me the questions of the origin of deity isn’t an issue…we’ve all asked that question at one time or another. I see no reason not to ask such questions in our religious literature and hymnology…it is a question we need not shy away from.

As I understand Mormonism, there has been lots of “holy speculation” concerning the nature of deity…and why should that make us uncomfortable is beyond me…we are finite beings seeking to understand the infinite…it just cannot be done.

We all “speculate”…even Catholicism…“limbo” comes to mind…much abuse and fear concerning those children who die without baptism has been waged because of speculaton concerning “limbo”…to me this is no different…it’s a question concerning the nature of God…something none of us will every completely comprehend with our finite intellects…shoot…most of us can’t even figure out the mechanics of the internal combustion engine or worry too much about jet mechanics when we fly…yet we sometimes come across as though we understand the Creator of the Universe which contains billions of galaxies at distances none of us can even begin to comprehend.
 
lax16 said:
Thanks for sharing Theosis. It makes more sense now!
Are you still considering Mormonism? (You don’t have to answer if you don’t want to or if you feel that is off topic).
In reference to the hymn, I’ve “hung out” with Mormons for 20+ years, attended several of their church activities, live in Utah, and still have never heard of it. Perhaps it is known to those who are serious investigators.
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No problem!

Well, I’m trying to figure that all out (which is why I start the threads that I do or post the things that I do. It’s like…airing out my thoughts, I guess). I really like to discuss the claims of the LDS Church, and don’t like it when threads degenerate into the usual “Mormonism is a [Satanic] cult!!” or “Joseph Smith is a con-man!!!”(I think that already happened on the latest “why did Jesus come to America” thread)

As far as the hymn, I think I happened on it when I Googled “kolob” a few years ago. To me, it seems as if it and “Praise to the Man”(Joseph Smith) are the two hymns most known by non-Mormons.
 
TheosisM said:
No problem!

Well, I’m trying to figure that all out (which is why I start the threads that I do or post the things that I do. It’s like…airing out my thoughts, I guess). I really like to discuss the claims of the LDS Church, and don’t like it when threads degenerate into the usual “Mormonism is a [Satanic] cult!!” or “Joseph Smith is a con-man!!!”(I think that already happened on the latest “why did Jesus come to America” thread)

As far as the hymn, I think I happened on it when I Googled “kolob” a few years ago. To me, it seems as if it and “Praise to the Man”(Joseph Smith) are the two hymns most known by non-Mormons.
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That would be a change. In my experience “Come, Come Ye Saints” is much more recognized by non-Mormons.
 
TheosisM said:
No problem!

Well, I’m trying to figure that all out (which is why I start the threads that I do or post the things that I do. It’s like…airing out my thoughts, I guess). I really like to discuss the claims of the LDS Church, and don’t like it when threads degenerate into the usual “Mormonism is a [Satanic] cult!!” or “Joseph Smith is a con-man!!!”(I think that already happened on the latest “why did Jesus come to America” thread)

As far as the hymn, I think I happened on it when I Googled “kolob” a few years ago. To me, it seems as if it and “Praise to the Man”(Joseph Smith) are the two hymns most known by non-Mormons.
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I agree sometimes things get too nasty on these threads. I notice they are either new posters (and I think they will figure out soon enough it doesn’t work to be a mud-slinger) or former Mormons who are really angry for one reason or another.

Airing out your thoughts is great. I like to do it too. And I like to ask LOTS of questions about how things started (I guess I am heavy into root-cause-analysis!) I do think you lean a little heavy to the LDS side of things in discussions though…😉
 
why_me said:
It is a beautiful song. I brought this up on the forum a while ago: when former lds members claim that they knew nothing about kolob, they forgot to look at the lds hymnal where the song is listed.
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I know of no Mormons who claim they know nothing of Kolob. I know a LOT of non-Mormons who claim that they know more about it than we do, or more often, that claim they know what we really believe about Kolob. 😉
 
catsrus said:
We had a thread on this “hymn” quite some time ago.
Mormons always claim to have not heard it or give some convoluted explaination of it.
Bottom line: there is no “Kolob” except in the mormon fairy tale.
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Do we ‘always’ do this?

It one of my top ten favorite hymns.
 
As someone who investigated the Mormon religion very seriously for a time, and was ultimately led to Catholic Christianity, I really like this song.

The tune is haunting, and it is a perfect reflection of Mormon doctrine considering ultimate origins. I was generally better read on the history and doctrines of Mormonism than most of my Mormon friends, and it was funny to me that I understood this hymn much better than them.

Another good reflection of the doctrines embedded in this song is the Orson Scott Card book duet of books, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind. The whole concept of aiuas, philotes, “outside”, and origins are hidden in his books, even though the official religion of all his characters is Catholicism.

I personally think that OSC would be very happy as a Catholic, but that is off topic.
 
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