A Mormon Tycoon Wants to Build Joseph Smith’s Mega-Utopia in Vermont

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I think, if I recall correctly, that was the original intention of Nauvoo, Illinois. It didn’t go so well for the Mormons.
 
I think, if I recall correctly, that was the original intention of Nauvoo, Illinois. It didn’t go so well for the Mormons.
Oh, I don’t even know, Adam. I just found the logistics and planning of it very interesting, minus the actual Mormon religious ideas.🤷

The architectural and city-planning ideas seem worth pondering.
 
bloomberg.com/features/2016-newvistas-mormon-utopia/

I found this to be quite an interesting article, and it contains an awful lot of stuff about Mormonism that I had never heard of before.
Wow - thanks for posting! I’m all for thinking out of the box and improving our environment and societies. However a couple of things jumped out at me from the article as a bit odd:

*Within the community, each person will be allotted just 200 square feet of living space, but apartments will be soundproofed, with Roomba-sized robots that rearrange furniture for different needs and times of day. Each robot, Hall says, will move quickly, “then go right back into its nest.” Furnishings and possessions not being used will be stored inside 4-by-4-foot boxes that are integrated into the apartment floors and electronically move up and down as needed.

A plat, says Hall, will be subject to state and regional laws, but will also be overseen by a board and hierarchies of leaders with, it appears, strong Mormon family values. “Each [multi-family] house has house captains, which are a team of one man and one woman,” reads Hall’s document. “These are a selected married couple, with each providing leadership for and dealing directly with issues related to their gender.” Asked in person about this traditional-sounding setup, he said that gay and single people could hold leadership positions.*
 
That could be… interesting?

This has actually worked in the kibbutzim in Israel today, little Jewish collective communities where people originally did agricultural work, and now do different things like industrial work and high-tech enterprises.

The early Church even practiced a utopianism of sorts with itself (Acts 2:44, Acts 4:32), being self-sustainable yet part of society inasmuch as they could. However, St. Paul warned against people taking advantage of the Church’s charity in 2 Thessalonians 3 (he invented the maxim, “if you don’t work, you don’t eat”).

It would be good for the people there if this project worked.
 
Hi!
…have not ventured into the link… but I caution you… a teaching that claims Believers will become god’s and found their own fellowship in their own planets is not a Christian Gospel.

Maran atha!

Angel
Oh, thanks jcrichton! 🙂 But no worries, my friend, this is just a nutty variety of “alternative living,” kind of vaguely along the lines of sixties communes, in a way. That’s maybe a poor analogy, but regardless, I am definitely in no danger of converting to Mormonism! You might find the article eye-opening, if you feel like chancing it. As lax16 said, the robotics part captures the imagination.
 
bloomberg.com/features/2016-newvistas-mormon-utopia/

I found this to be quite an interesting article, and it contains an awful lot of stuff about Mormonism that I had never heard of before.
Well, this article is an example of poor journalism.
  1. It makes the area to be developed sound huge, when it’s <1.5 square miles.
  2. It makes it sound like it’s been a secret, when it’s been in the news for months.
  3. He’s planning on building such communities around the globe, with 4 currently in the works… but the article is totally focused on one <1.5 sq miles because the campaigning lady doesn’t want it around her place.
  4. Doing the math, this “high population density” area as an density of about ~3,000 ppl/sq mi. This is equivalent to a standard suburbia neighborhood.
  5. Lot of really unwarranted, unnecessary, and over-the-top-dramatic language. Example “tycoon”, “mega-utopia”, etc. A more accurate title would be "developer wishes to develop <1.5 sq mi sustainable high tech community in Vermont and local residents declare “not in my backyard!” ".
 
Well, this article is an example of poor journalism.
  1. It makes the area to be developed sound huge, when it’s <1.5 square miles.
  2. It makes it sound like it’s been a secret, when it’s been in the news for months.
  3. He’s planning on building such communities around the globe, with 4 currently in the works… but the article is totally focused on one <1.5 sq miles because the campaigning lady doesn’t want it around her place.
  4. Doing the math, this “high population density” area as an density of about ~3,000 ppl/sq mi. This is equivalent to a standard suburbia neighborhood.
  5. Lot of really unwarranted, unnecessary, and over-the-top-dramatic language. Example “tycoon”, “mega-utopia”, etc. A more accurate title would be "developer wishes to develop <1.5 sq mi sustainable high tech community in Vermont and local residents declare “not in my backyard!” ".
I read the article and don’t completely agree with you.

First off, I actually love his design!
  • Gardens, park space, walking trails on the interior so everyone has natural views.
  • Businesses on lower levels, living spaces above.
  • Interior passages connecting the entire perimeter.
There are some excellent concepts here for sustainable living – not only sustainable for the earth, but sustainable for the heart.

But like so many utopians, I think he’s taken his initial ideas WAY too far.
  • “Families and individuals who wish to join must invest their net worth…”
  • “Those who start Vista Bizzes will be given startup funds by the community but must surrender their IP rights…[and] agree to put nearly all their profits back into the community in exchange for what Hall calls ‘dividends’.”
  • “Roomba-sized robots that rearrange furniture for different needs and times of day”
  • “Medic is developing a water-efficient toilet that also measures blood pressure, weight, and overall health by using sensors and sampling what passes through it.”
If he’d just stick with an excellent design and allow people to create their own communities and way of life, he might not be perceived as a cult leader instead of a problem-solver.

He goes into a rural area that is sparsely populated, and he says, “I’m gonna build a community for 20,000 people here,” and he wonders why people are upset? Seriously?

He seems clueless and completely callous to the people who already live there, people who chose the area because it was rural. My first home was a 600 sq ft cabin on several acres. If he’d showed up with engineers and blueprints in our community, we would’ve had the same reaction!

Maybe he should buy up land on the edge of suburbia instead and show how it’s more desirable than our current living situations.

I also found it interesting that the folks in Provo, UT are fighting back as well. Again, his design is intriguing and has such promise. But his extraneous ideas make the whole thing feel cult-like. He’s vying for too much control over how people actually use his design.

Well, that’s my two cents anyway.
 
Well, this article is an example of poor journalism.
  1. It makes the area to be developed sound huge, when it’s <1.5 square miles.
  2. It makes it sound like it’s been a secret, when it’s been in the news for months.
  3. He’s planning on building such communities around the globe, with 4 currently in the works… but the article is totally focused on one <1.5 sq miles because the campaigning lady doesn’t want it around her place.
  4. Doing the math, this “high population density” area as an density of about ~3,000 ppl/sq mi. This is equivalent to a standard suburbia neighborhood.
  5. Lot of really unwarranted, unnecessary, and over-the-top-dramatic language. Example “tycoon”, “mega-utopia”, etc. A more accurate title would be "developer wishes to develop <1.5 sq mi sustainable high tech community in Vermont and local residents declare “not in my backyard!” ".
I agree, except that the development includes a billionaire’s hobby of Joseph Smith’s utopian city planning, which makes “tycoon” and “utopia”, relevant.

In addition the New Vista Foundation is a non-profit organization and so cannot make a profit. So “developer” isn’t really the right term either. More like, the billionaire has a hobby, and wants to see Smith’s planning vision used and then have other developers use it, everywhere. First he wants to demonstrate its viability, in Vermont, in a community that he is crafting entirely under a non-profit organization. It’s more like Marie Antoinette’s village of peasants.
 
Wow - thanks for posting! I’m all for thinking out of the box and improving our environment and societies. However a couple of things jumped out at me from the article as a bit odd:

*Within the community, each person will be allotted just 200 square feet of living space, but apartments will be soundproofed, with Roomba-sized robots that rearrange furniture for different needs and times of day. Each robot, Hall says, will move quickly, “then go right back into its nest.” Furnishings and possessions not being used will be stored inside 4-by-4-foot boxes that are integrated into the apartment floors and electronically move up and down as needed.

A plat, says Hall, will be subject to state and regional laws, but will also be overseen by a board and hierarchies of leaders with, it appears, strong Mormon family values. “Each [multi-family] house has house captains, which are a team of one man and one woman,” reads Hall’s document. “These are a selected married couple, with each providing leadership for and dealing directly with issues related to their gender*.” Asked in person about this traditional-sounding setup, he said that gay and single people could hold leadership positions.
Bolding mine. Wow a Mormon communist! Wants to control living space, employment, and morality. You give us all your money, we’ll provide you housing, food, and employment. If you want to leave you can, but we own the rights to your business.

Seriously - I get sustainable use of land, but Vermont is the wrong place to do it. He should stick to Utah urban areas like Salt Lake City or Provo. I certainly would not want to live in a situation like this. Small spaces and sustainable farming are great, wouldn’t mind that, but never going to put myself under the control of someone like Hall.
 
Hi!
…if not for the complete loss of control and the religious tenets, I would say that it sounds pretty much like the various sci-fi takes of the sixties and seventies… man’s concern for overpopulation (or planetary catastrophic events) pushes him into outer space where the few and bold hitch their hopes on a techno utopia and terraforming of moons/planets give humanity a change for survival…

At times I’ve thought about the possibilities (since the tech is there for creating enclosed environments that are self-sustainable… the issue would be having not only the vision and resources but the skilled personnel that would venture into such a system (here on earth it wouldn’t be so hard with the exception of loss of control and self-autonomy, as those captaining the visions almost always want to make a world after their own image and likeness) where life would be so demanding and exacting (high skill and high moral and work ethics–something that is actively being bread-out of the culture as society is bent on ego trips and “having fun”).

Though I wonder if science, looking into heat as another source of sustainable clean energy, could convert environmental heat (displaced by the Sun and other heat sources) into an useable energy source. Now that would be something!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Bolding mine. Wow a Mormon communist! Wants to control living space, employment, and morality. You give us all your money, we’ll provide you housing, food, and employment. If you want to leave you can, but we own the rights to your business.
I live in Utah and am amazed at how everyone knows everybody’s business. What I consider gossip is everyday conversation about people and their lives. Even many backyards don’t have fences and privacy is very hard to find. I think Mormons are used to a communal style of living and may not even realize it.
  • I get sustainable use of land, but Vermont is the wrong place to do it. He should stick to Utah urban areas like Salt Lake City or Provo. I certainly would not want to live in a situation like this. Small spaces and sustainable farming are great, wouldn’t mind that, but never going to put myself under the control of someone like Hall.
Each neighborhood in Utah has a ward and bishop and they know everybody, Mormon and non-Mormon. After ten years I still am not totally comfortable with it. Like you, I am interested in sustainable farming and living smaller, but never agree to letting someone have this level of control over me.
 
Bolding mine. Wow a Mormon communist! Wants to control living space, employment, and morality. You give us all your money, we’ll provide you housing, food, and employment. If you want to leave you can, but we own the rights to your business.
Anarcho-communist here. I hate to break it to you, but what you’re describing as communist isn’t. Communism like any ideology is divided up into different schools of thought as to how communism is to be implemented in practice. The likes of Leninists may want a centrally planned state of affairs ran by a central authority like you describe, but others including myself (I’m more a Titoist) prefer power to be moved away from this and decentralised down to a more localised organisation.

Flinging the word ‘communist’ around in this context is just plain unhelpful as well as silly.
 
I live in Utah and am amazed at how everyone knows everybody’s business. What I consider gossip is everyday conversation about people and their lives. Even many backyards don’t have fences and privacy is very hard to find. I think Mormons are used to a communal style of living and may not even realize it.

Each neighborhood in Utah has a ward and bishop and they know everybody, Mormon and non-Mormon. After ten years I still am not totally comfortable with it. Like you, I am interested in sustainable farming and living smaller, but never agree to letting someone have this level of control over me.
Interesting observation. When Joseph Smith created the office of Bishop, it was to organize people under the “law of consecration”. This was intended to eradicate poverty among Smith’s followers, and to build the funds and property of the LDS Church, at Kirtland. It was a form of Christian communalism, borrowed from Isaac Morley who led a Christian cummune called the Morley Farm.

Wards are groups of Mormons who still, implicitly, live a version of the law of consecration. In Smith’s original version all land and production was pooled, and then individual families were give “stewardship” over their land and what they produced. Brigham Young modified it in Utah, and called it the United Order.If you ever pass through Orderville, you are passing through Mormon history.

Today LDS give 10% income and are assigned to work within the LDS Church welfare system. The social structure, that is in place to check on the welfare of each other, within a ward and under the leadership of a Bishop, remains in place. It is definitely a Utah culture thing, but it changes. When I was a kid the ward was like an extended family. We had a lot of community activities that are now “banned”, in the sense that Bishops have been instructed to cease practicing them.
 
Definitely going to be an interesting fight. NIMBYs vs Mormons. Place your bets!
 
…I would say that it sounds pretty much like the various sci-fi takes of the sixties and seventies…
My thoughts exactly. Looking at the design, I felt sure I had that picture on a cover of an old Robert Heinlein paperback sitting on my dusty bookcase somewhere. Except that city had a big dome around it and was on Mars, and people were walking around in space suits from The Jetsons.

But hey, whatever - that guy and his money have nothing to do with me. If he makes it fly, good for him.
 
Anarcho-communist here. I hate to break it to you, but what you’re describing as communist isn’t. Communism like any ideology is divided up into different schools of thought as to how communism is to be implemented in practice. The likes of Leninists may want a centrally planned state of affairs ran by a central authority like you describe, but others including myself (I’m more a Titoist) prefer power to be moved away from this and decentralised down to a more localised organisation.

Flinging the word ‘communist’ around in this context is just plain unhelpful as well as silly.
OK 🤷
 
Hi!
…if not for the complete loss of control and the religious tenets, I would say that it sounds pretty much like the various sci-fi takes of the sixties and seventies…
It also sounds like the back story in a sci-fi dystopian novel.
 
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