A most bizarre event at Mass - Unconsecrated Wine

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Last Sunday I was stunned when Father inadvertently failed to Consecrate the Wine!!!
He went directly from the consecration of the Host to the Holy Holy…
Even our Deacon missed it.
The mass proceeded and we all took from the Chalice per usual.

This was most certainly not deliberate and I wouldn’t want to embarass Father or our Deacon over it, but it raised a question in my mind.

Did we recieve the Blood from the Chalice or simply wine? By that I mean would the wine be consecrated by “intent” even though the form was lacking?

Just curious.

Peace
James
 
who noticed it? You said that even the deacon missed it. Sometimes during Mass, I can be in such a meditative state that I might miss it. Maybe you just missed it? Any one catch it on camera?

I would think if it wasn’t consecrated, that you were drinking wine and going through the motions just like protestants do. At that point, it would merely symbolize the blood of Christ rather than actually BE it.
 
Last Sunday I was stunned when Father inadvertently failed to Consecrate the Wine!!!
He went directly from the consecration of the Host to the Holy Holy…
Even our Deacon missed it.
The mass proceeded and we all took from the Chalice per usual.

This was most certainly not deliberate and I wouldn’t want to embarass Father or our Deacon over it, but it raised a question in my mind.

Did we recieve the Blood from the Chalice or simply wine? By that I mean would the wine be consecrated by “intent” even though the form was lacking?

Just curious.

Peace
James
I am afraid that the Mass was invalid. But, your timeline is a little confusing. The species is not consecrated before the Sanctus, but, after it. Are you thinking that perhaps he forgot to do the offertory prayer for the wine? The offertory prayer and the Eucharistic Prayer are two different things. The Memorial Acclamation comes after the consecration.

My parochial vicar had to fill in at a parish known for liturgical aberrations and abnormalities (huge ones). The experience left him discombobulated that he forgot to consecrate the wine. Luckily, he was the only one who drank from the chalice (and not all of it). He was thrown off balance by the EMHCs that he did not minister the chalice to them.

I purposely decided to be the last one in line. When he was going to give me the Body of Christ, I lifted my hand to him and told him that he forgot to consecrate the wine. He thanked me and told me that with everything that went on, he was not surprised. Then gave me the Body of Christ. As I was the last one, he went back to the altar, halted the altar servers and went back and consecrated the wine. Then, he drank from the chalice, thus completing the Sacrifice.
 
If he forgot “Blessed are you, Lord God of all creation. Through your goodness we have this wine to offer…”
But did say “…this is the cup of my blood…”
Then mass was valid and the wine consecrated.

However,

If “… this is the cup of my blood…” was omitted, then the mass was technically invalid and the wine not consecrated.
 
I am afraid that the Mass was invalid. But, your timeline is a little confusing. The species is not consecrated before the Sanctus, but, after it. Are you thinking that perhaps he forgot to do the offertory prayer for the wine? The offertory prayer and the Eucharistic Prayer are two different things. The Memorial Acclamation comes after the consecration.
My bad - actually it was the acclamation. I remember because I saw him raise the host at the consecration and then - Blam. Very confusing.
I didn’t realize that such an accident would make the entire mass invalid. Are you sure?? Even if the intent was there?
I learned that Father had been taking some medication that made him feel bit lightheaded at times.
 
My bad - actually it was the acclamation. I remember because I saw him raise the host at the consecration and then - Blam. Very confusing.
I didn’t realize that such an accident would make the entire mass invalid. Are you sure?? Even if the intent was there?
I learned that Father had been taking some medication that made him feel bit lightheaded at times.
Both species must be consecrated in order for the Mass to be valid, as the Sacrifice involves the Body and Blood of the True Lamb of God, Jesus Christ. That is why my parochial vicar acted quickly to correct the situation when I brought it to his attention.
 
Last Sunday I was stunned when Father inadvertently failed to Consecrate the Wine!!!
He went directly from the consecration of the Host to the Holy Holy…
Even our Deacon missed it.
The mass proceeded and we all took from the Chalice per usual.

This was most certainly not deliberate and I wouldn’t want to embarass Father or our Deacon over it, but it raised a question in my mind.

Did we recieve the Blood from the Chalice or simply wine? By that I mean would the wine be consecrated by “intent” even though the form was lacking?

Just curious.

Peace
James
It is early and I have not had all my coffee yet, but. I believe the Holy, Holy, Holy comes before the Consecration.

If the words of Consecration are not spoken over the chalice then there is no Blood of Christ, simply do not receive from the chalice. This has happened before.
 
My bad - actually it was the acclamation. I remember because I saw him raise the host at the consecration and then - Blam. Very confusing.
I didn’t realize that such an accident would make the entire mass invalid. Are you sure?? Even if the intent was there?
I learned that Father had been taking some medication that made him feel bit lightheaded at times.
Even forgetting to Consecrate the wine would not invalidate the Mass. The Mass would be incomplete because the celebrating priest must receive BOTH forms to complete the Mass. No one else is required to receive under both forms.
 
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benedictgal:
Both species must be consecrated in order for the Mass to be valid, as the Sacrifice involves the Body and Blood of the True Lamb of God, Jesus Christ. That is why my parochial vicar acted quickly to correct the situation when I brought it to his attention.

I have witnessed a similar instance (“only once”) like that of JRKH with an extra large crystal cruet filled with wine accidentally left on the credence table. It wasn’t noticed by the alter servers (“and don’t ask me how”) until after the consecration. While the priest was parceling the consecrated host on the Alter into different ciborium, the alter servers brought the large cruet of un-consecrated wine to the Alter and informed the priest of the situation. He then made a sign of the cross over the large wine cruet and poured it into numerous chalices on the Alter. This begs me to ask the same question…Does God make allowances for un-intentional mistakes made by the priest ? Naturally; I too would question the validity of the consecration.
 
Both species must be consecrated in order for the Mass to be valid, as the Sacrifice involves the Body and Blood of the True Lamb of God, Jesus Christ. That is why my parochial vicar acted quickly to correct the situation when I brought it to his attention.
I have witnessed a similar instance (“only once”) like that of JRKH with an extra large crystal cruet filled with wine accidentally left on the credence table. It wasn’t noticed by the alter servers (“and don’t ask me how”) until after the consecration. While the priest was parceling the consecrated host on the Alter into different ciborium, the alter servers brought the large cruet of un-consecrated wine to the Alter and informed the priest of the situation. He then made a sign of the cross over the large wine cruet and poured it into numerous chalices on the Alter. This begs me to ask the same question…Does God make allowances for un-intentional mistakes made by the priest ? Naturally; I too would question the validity of the consecration.
It would only affect the validity of the consecration of the wine. It would not affect the validity of the Consecration of the bread or the Mass as a whole.

He would have needed to do and say more than just making a Sign of the Cross over the extra cruet. He would have needed to completely say the words of Consecration for the wine from the Eucharistic prayer. Simply making the Sign of the Cross or saying the words from the Epiclesis would have accomplished nothing.
 
I It would only affect the validity of the consecration of the wine. It would not affect the validity of the Consecration of the bread or the Mass as a whole.

He would have needed to do and say more than just making a Sign of the Cross over the extra cruet. He would have needed to completely say the words of Consecration for the wine from the Eucharistic prayer. Simply making the Sign of the Cross or saying the words from the Epiclesis would have accomplished nothing.
When I informed my parochial vicar what had happened, he did not merely make the sign of the Cross, but, I saw him flipping the Roman Missal back to the Eucharistic Prayer. He recited it quietly, lifted the chalice and then, consumed the Precious Blood.
 
A very ancient tradition regards one species to become consecrated by virtue of coming into contact with the other species. This was the case in the Latin Church during the pre-sanctified Mass of Good Friday, and at other times (like last rites). I believe it is St. Bede the Venerable (it’s one of the Anglo-Celtic saints) who records that a certain Irish Saint, when he was going to administer Communion to the dying, had the Body of Christ brought to him and placed it in a chalice of normal wine. He then communed the dying man with both Species (the norm before Trent). I.e., the consecrated Host was mingled in wine, and by virtue of the intinction, the wine is considered to receive consecration and become our Lord’s Blood.

I’m not Roman Catholic (I’m Orthodox), so rules may have changed since Trent. But, before Trent - and still, in the Orthodox Church (whose sacraments Rome now recognizes as valid) - the wine would be considered consecrated when the consecrated host was intincted.

That isn’t to say that the norm is to consecrate both when celebrating a normal Mass. And, any attentive priest should definitely consecrate both in such a Mass. And, if he realizes that he failed to consecrate the wine at some point before the intinction, he should definitely return to the words of consecration over the wine. Someone mentioned that a parish priest did this under similar circumstances, and that is certainly what we Orthodox would do, especially if the Body had not yet been inticted in the chalice. The old Roman Mass used to involve an intiction of the host into the chalice near the “Agnus Dei.” I’m assuming it still does?

The Orthodox Church regularly celebrates “Presanctified Liturgy” throughout the season of Lent. The “Presanctified Liturgy” is a Mass, wherein previously consecrated elements of the Body of Christ are distributed instead of consecrating the Body again. It is understood that when the Body is placed in the chalice at such a pre-sanctified Mass, the wine in the chalice becomes the Blood of Christ without any words of consecration. Some Orthodox Churches will drip a few drops of Christ’s Blood onto the Body when consecrating it beforehand, just “to be sure” that some of the Blood of Christ is present. But some would also point out that these drops of Blood have dried by the time the Body is distributed three days later (on Wednesday Evening’s Mass). The same thing was done in the Latin Church on Good Friday in the past. Perhaps it is still done; I don’t know enough about Latin liturgy after the reformations of Trent or Vatican II.

So, in short: while Trent may have changed the canonical procedures in the Latin Church on this matter, ancient Tradition holds that whenever one element is brought into contact with the other with the clear goal of consecrating it and distributing Communion, it is ipso facto consecrated. One should follow the discipline of one’s rite - but, with the confidence that if a small, unitentional error such as this has been made, all that has been violated is a matter of proper ritual procedure; the Tradition would still hold the wine to become consecrated by virtue of the intinction. This was the procedure in the Latin Church in a few circumstances, especially the presanctified Mass of Good Friday, and is still the custom in the Orthodox Church (and Eastern Catholic churches) during every Wednesday and Friday of Lent. So, don’t worry! Accidents like this happen.

Of course, I’m not saying that just because the wine is consecrated by coming into contact with the Body, one should omit the proper form of Mass under normal circumstances. Priests should always strive to perform the services correctly and with attentive devotion.
 
I was actually at a Mass one time where this was happening and someone just spoke up out loud and told Father, he thanked them and then continued on from there and everything was great.
 
fatheraugustine,
Yes, in the Roman rite the Host is indeed tinctured into the wine. I hadn’t thought of this as having the effect of “consecrating” the wine.
Perhaps someone more knowledgable could read your post and clarify this for us.

All in All, since it was totally inadvertant (I know this Priest and he is a good one) I’m sure the Lord made allowance for us in this accident. My point is asking was not so much a concern over whether we were OK in the mass, but just for my education in what the “rubrics” say about such situations.

Peace
James
 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but, I’ve always thought that the consecration happens at the same time for BOTH species when the priest lays his hands over the bread and the wine and asks the Lord to turn them into his body and blood. By the time he says the words “Take this all of you and eat…” for the bread, and “Take this all of you and drink…” for the wine, both have already been consecrated into the body and blood of Christ.

So, doesn’t the consecration happen at the same time for both species and not separately for the bread and then for the wine?
 
I was actually at a Mass one time where this was happening and someone just spoke up out loud and told Father, he thanked them and then continued on from there and everything was great.
I was once the person who had to do this. We had a visiting priest, known for losing his place. He missed the Offertory prayer, skipping from the Orate Fratres to the Preface. My redflag detector turned on. Following the Elevation of the Host, he intoned the intro to the Memorial Acc. Wisen piano player that I am, I went to the altar, whispered in his ear that he forgot to Consecrate the wine. He argued with me, so I flipped the page back, pointed the the right place, and said, “Start here.”. He nodded and Mass finished without further problem. He thanked me after, and told me the chemo treatments he was undergoing caused him to be forgetful.

Several community members saw fit to chew me out for my arrogance, and when our pastor heard, he expressed his disappointment in them for not knowing the consequences had no one acted.
 
The Catholic Church as far as I know has never accepted the idea of Consecration by contact.
 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but, I’ve always thought that the consecration happens at the same time for BOTH species when the priest lays his hands over the bread and the wine and asks the Lord to turn them into his body and blood. By the time he says the words “Take this all of you and eat…” for the bread, and “Take this all of you and drink…” for the wine, both have already been consecrated into the body and blood of Christ.

So, doesn’t the consecration happen at the same time for both species and not separately for the bread and then for the wine?
No
 
Then why does the mass server ring the bells and everybody kneels when they hear “Let Your spirit come upon these gifts to make them holy, so that they may become for us the Body and Blood of our Lord, Jesus Christ,” ? I’ve always thought that these words alone turn the bread and the wine into the body and blood of Christ at the same time.
 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but, I’ve always thought that the consecration happens at the same time for BOTH species when the priest lays his hands over the bread and the wine and asks the Lord to turn them into his body and blood. By the time he says the words “Take this all of you and eat…” for the bread, and “Take this all of you and drink…” for the wine, both have already been consecrated into the body and blood of Christ.

So, doesn’t the consecration happen at the same time for both species and not separately for the bread and then for the wine?
A more complete response would be - No, it is the words “This is my body” “This is my blood” - which confects the Eucharist.

~Liza
 
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