S
stormy99
Guest
**That is one of the choices for girls…uniform code…pants, skirts etc in the correct colors…in our parish.
stormy**
- Status
stormy**
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
Pants don’t necessarily reveal the shape, and the Prophet never forbade pants, either. In fact, dresses and skirts can be as revealing if not more revealing than pants.
S
swariffin
Guest
Agreed. What good the tight jeans do with respect to Islamic belief. Tight jeans do cover the skin, but reveal many the “turning shapes” which could make Valentino Rossi (Motor cycle racer) fall down.
B
Bluegoat
Guest
I wasn’t commenting on flogging. I was commenting on the statement that Catholics do not use the teaching from Deuteronomy on not impersonating the opposite sex to argue that women should not wear pants. If you go to the Traditional forum, you will find people there that argue just that, with that same text.
What does this have to do with being flogged? Moses was talking to Catholics?
MJ
I have never heard any suggest any legal punishments, much less flogging, but I have heard people suggest that women in pants ought not be allowed in church. That attitude is not confined to the Muslim world.
M
MartinJordan
Guest
Ok. However my main concern is for Muslims to think Deuteronomy was written by the Catholic church. This was the statement :"
Also are Catholic teachings really all that different? “A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God.” (Deut 22:5). Even if this is no longer applicable (I’m in the process of studying Medieval Law), then is it really evil and can you really put any blame on us?"
Firstly it Isn’t a Catholic teaching in it’s origin, we learned this from the Jewish scriptures. 2nd I think this statement above is a deflection of the real issues troubling Islam today. Which deals with how rules are coming with harsh punishment; regardless of some dress code. In other words, point to another religion when the heat is on their own.
MJ
Y
Young_Thinker
Guest
It is a bit ironic that harem girls were allowed to smoke. That is a very masculine habit.Poor women in Islam,
since all this talking about ruling on how women should dress will prohibit women from:
following , enjoying or even competing in certain sports like swimming, snorkling, diving, gymnastic, etc or even certain performing arts like ballet, tango or my country’s very artistic Balinese dance etc etc…well
Y
Young_Thinker
Guest
But dresses and skirts usually look so much better. What is wrong with being concerned about your outward appearance? Yet, I will say that it is bit odd when Muslim ladies wear a lot of makeup with their hijabs (some of them are so pretty anyway; it would not take much at all to attract male attention).
A
algebra
Guest
But I can understand the prohibition against fitting clothes, its also much better for the self esteem of women who may not be as “attractive” on the outside, but are wonderful people on the inside.
As I said, islam really does get some things right.
As I said, islam really does get some things right.
M
MartinJordan
Guest
The most important thing in Catholic teaching, is what is in the heart not outside appearance (except of course in official circumstances or during Mass for instance - not to confuse with having a heart free of anger etc when celebrating the Eucharist). As for Islam, it’s all about rules. Covering the women so men will not be tempted. But what did Jesus say about looking at a woman lustfully?
One of my Muslim friends tells me in response to me telling him what Jesus said in Matthew 5:27-28. He tells me “according to Mohammed it’s ok to do that. As long as you don’t touch them”
When I asked why? He said because it’s too difficult for a person. MJ
A
algebra
Guest
He was misrepresenting islam.One of my Muslim friends tells me in response to me telling him what Jesus said in Matthew 5:27-28. He tells me “according to Mohammed it’s ok to do that. As long as you don’t touch them”
MJ
Islam teaches a man to lower his gaze when dealing with any woman.
F
Faith1960
Guest
Same here.
M
MartinJordan
Guest
If you could be so kind to give me the verse (from Quran, Hadith or wherever this is stated) where this is the case. I want to inform my Muslim friend. He MUST know. Meanwhile, what does it mean by “dealing”? Also does it have to do with thoughts as well or just for show so that everyone else can see that such and such Muslim man is doing the right thing.
MJ
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
LOL, don’t get me started.
I’ve seen Muslim girls wearing skinny jeans, tight-TIGHT fitted shirts (can see the outline of their bras), wearing some sad excuse for a headscarf that really just covers hair and neck, but not the huge hoop earrings hanging outside of the hijab, and then a painted face to go with it all.
Now, how do you feel if I tell you that I saw this AT THE MOSQUE!
Didn’t see anyone threateneing them lashes, though, thankfully.
S
Sister_Amy
Guest
Algebra is totally correct on this one. In fact, the ayah is in Surah Nur (ch. 24). Both relevant ayaat in fact, 24:30-31. Men are supposed to lower their gaze and protect their modesty. And quite frequently, more observent Muslim men do lower their gaze when around women at all, and they try to avoid looking at their bodies. Sometimes in American culture it’s perceived as rude, though, to not make eye contact, so you might not notice as much in a business/professional encounter. But in general at the mosque, you can tell it’s going on. (By the way, this excludes family interaction.)
Women are also supposed to do the same, lower their gaze. (Not to be coy, mind you, but rather just that they should try to ogle any more than men should.)
Women are also supposed to cover themselves more extensively than is required of men, but notice how that doesn’t even come until AFTER men are told to lower their gaze. So men are supposed to lower their gaze regardless of how women dress.
And the teachings in Islam are similar to those of Jesus.
I’m afraid your “Muslim friend” wasn’t properly informed. But I’ve seen other Muslim men with that misconception–that they just can’t “touch” while they’re allowed to look. Shameful how Islam has been so degraded in some places.
S
Sam_777
Guest
M
men0wjv
Guest
I have only got time for my new thread now, but I just couldn’t resist…
You don’t see the irony of defending Salafism with ibn Taymiyyah? Let alone the source of the information wikipedia and then a book from Salafi publications, nice
Plus its still dubious that is what was meant. Since Salafis are not of the Salaf whereas Ahul Sunnah (i.e. Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafi’i and Ahmad etc) were.Also algebras words ‘they are not as heretical as you think’ is a collection of words which means nothing at all.
So in actual fact neither party said anything at all
Isn’t sophistry marvelous?Salafis are heretics, and that’s what you’ll learn at the Universities of the Muslims as stated before. Salafis and the Salafi State of Saudi Arabia might complain, but that is of no consequence now is it
Y
Young_Thinker
Guest
Oh my! I guess that they have no more reverence than many Christians do today.
S
Sam_777
Guest
You know there is no point arguing with you again specially after this and this back in 2008.I have only got time for my new thread now, but I just couldn’t resist…
You don’t see the irony of defending Salafism with ibn Taymiyyah? Let alone the source of the information wikipedia and then a book from Salafi publications, nice
Also algebras words ‘they are not as heretical as you think’ is a collection of words which means nothing at all.
So in actual fact neither party said anything at all
Salafis are heretics, and that’s what you’ll learn at the Universities of the Muslims as stated before. Salafis and the Salafi State of Saudi Arabia might complain, but that is of no consequence now is it
M
men0wjv
Guest
I agree there is no point arguing
The arguments you put forward in '08 - which you have rather fortuitously forgotten to put my responses with - were as poor then as they are now. Again like back then you haven’t ever refuted any of my points and can only offer rhetoric and Wikipedia.Basically my point is, what you know about Islam is heretical so in other words you know nothing of Islam. If you wish to argue Salafi Islam says such and such then thats fine, but don’t expect the Muslims to agree with you.
Peace
M
men0wjv
Guest
This perhaps sums it up:
The Salafi sect was first started by Muhammad ibn 'Abdul Wahhab who is the only famous (should be infamous) person to have emerged from the Najd (in SA)
The Prophet (pbuh) said:
“O Allah! Give us blessing in our Sham, O Allah! Give us blessing in our Yemen.” They said: “And in our Najd?” and he said: “O Allah! Give us blessing in our Sham, O Allah! Give us blessing in our Yemen.” They said: “And in our Najd?” and I believe that he said on the third occasion: “In that place (najd) are earthquakes and seditions, and in that place shall rise the devil’s horn.” [Bukhari, 990]
Shaykh Sulaiman bin Abdul Wahab, his brother, said to the Salafi founder: “The horn of Shatan which the Prophet (pbuh) referred to is you.” [Sawaa’iqul Ilahiya]
Also isn’t it interesting my teachers - who call the Salafis heretics - come from Sham (Syria) and Yemen isn’t it?
- Status