A need to find Jesus outside the Church

[ejp123]

I don’t know how to formulate my question. Plz bare with me. Has anyone ever felt a need to find Jesus outside the church, scriptures and the magiesterium. I think im trying to find the real person of Christ in “real life”? Not on paper or in doctrine or prescribed beliefs from an institution (only). because of course the church is going to say it is true. Perhaps I am looking for direct confirmation from Jesus in my day to day life and not through religious practices that it is all really true. I feel like Jesus is asking me, “who do you say that I am?” My response right now might be along the lines of “I don’t know for sure. I know who you are supposed to be and who others say you are.” Hopefully someone can help me with this one because i am having difficulites putting words to what i am feeling. thx

 

[bilop]

I don’t know how to formulate my question. Plz bare with me. Has anyone ever felt a need to find Jesus outside the church, scriptures and the magiesterium. I think im trying to find the real person of Christ in “real life”? Not on paper or in doctrine or prescribed beliefs from an institution (only). because of course the church is going to say it is true. Perhaps I am looking for direct confirmation from Jesus in my day to day life and not through religious practices that it is all really true. I feel like Jesus is asking me, “who do you say that I am?” My response right now might be along the lines of “I don’t know for sure. I know who you are supposed to be and who others say you are.” Hopefully someone can help me with this one because i am having difficulites putting words to what i am feeling. thx

I’m sorry to say, you’re not going to get direct evidence of Jesus, that’s why it’s called Faith.

Mankind received that direct evidence once and for all in the Apostolic Age, with the life, miracles, death and Resurrection of Jesus, and the miracles performed by his Apostles.

The Church was created to transmit that evidence to future generations. We need to have faith in the Church, Scripture and Tradition.

God Bless

 

[mskejj]

I don’t know how to formulate my question. Plz bare with me. Has anyone ever felt a need to find Jesus outside the church, scriptures and the magiesterium. I think im trying to find the real person of Christ in “real life”? Not on paper or in doctrine or prescribed beliefs from an institution (only). because of course the church is going to say it is true. Perhaps I am looking for direct confirmation from Jesus in my day to day life and not through religious practices that it is all really true. I feel like Jesus is asking me, “who do you say that I am?” My response right now might be along the lines of “I don’t know for sure. I know who you are supposed to be and who others say you are.” Hopefully someone can help me with this one because i am having difficulites putting words to what i am feeling. thx

You get to know Jesus from spending time with him…just like you get to know anyone. That is what prayer is…spending time with him…talking and listening which includes reading the Word of God and listening to what he is telling you. You spend 30 min to an hour in conversation with him and you will come to know Him.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

ejp123, well you are at the start of a great quest. And it begins with the plea, “Lord Jesus, show me who you are!”

I was baptized as an infant and went to a Catholic elementary school. But I recall one day sitting in the church after confession. I guess I confessed missing Mass so the priest told me to pray for a love of the mass. As I sat there I thought, not only do I not love the Mass, I do not love Jesus. So I said to Jesus,

“How can I love you if I don’t know you, and how can I know you if you don’t show me who you are?”

It was a major turning point in my life. Thanks be to God.

And yet it is still an ongoing challenge to stay close to Jesus, to get closer, to know him better because it is not just about him revealing himslef to us. It is also about us seeking him out in every aspect and second of our lives.

 

[kkollwitz]

Matt 25:31+

 

[robwar]

You get to know Jesus from spending time with him…just like you get to know anyone. That is what prayer is…spending time with him…talking and listening which includes reading the Word of God and listening to what he is telling you. You spend 30 min to an hour in conversation with him and you will come to know Him.

great advice. Try going to adoration somewhere and spend time there. Read the Bible and pray and you will come to know Him.

 

[PJM]

=ejp123;9529026]I don’t know how to formulate my question. Plz bare with me. Has anyone ever felt a need to find Jesus outside the church, scriptures and the magiesterium. I think im trying to find the real person of Christ in “real life”? Not on paper or in doctrine or prescribed beliefs from an institution (only). because of course the church is going to say it is true. Perhaps I am looking for direct confirmation from Jesus in my day to day life and not through religious practices that it is all really true. I feel like Jesus is asking me, “who do you say that I am?” My response right now might be along the lines of “I don’t know for sure. I know who you are supposed to be and who others say you are.” Hopefully someone can help me with this one because i am having difficulites putting words to what i am feeling. thx

My dear friend in Christ;

ALLOW ME please to suggest that when you “ask” you Do receive IF it is for your spiritual benefit.

By KNOWING what we Catholics believe and WHY we believe it and HOW we are able to both believe and live our faith; we ourselves EMMULATE CHRIST. Thee very Christ you seek; SEEKS YOU and desires that YOU be HIM to those who HE places into your life.

We “find” Christ by “being Christ” to others.

This can be accomplished ONLY by fully knowing what we believe, and living our believes fully and publically. The more we emmulate Christ; the more we WILL see Christ in those with whom we associate.

KNOW
LIVE
FULLY PRACTICE
and SHARE our Catholic Faith.

God Bless you,
Pat/PJM

 

[Lancer]

You can’t be with Jesus any closer than in his Body which is Him and His Church united… especially when you receive him in Holy Communion…Christ and His Church are One…inseparable. Said another way…to emphasize the radical gift of the Church:

Catechism of the Catholic Church

The Church- foreshadowed from the world’s beginning

760 Christians of the first centuries said, **“The world was created for the sake of the Church.”**153 God created the world for the sake of communion with his divine life, a communion brought about by the “convocation” of men in Christ, and this “convocation” is the Church. The Church is the goal of all things,154 and God permitted such painful upheavals as the angels’ fall and man’s sin only as occasions and means for displaying all the power of his arm and the whole measure of the love he wanted to give the world:

Just as God’s will is creation and is called “the world,” so his intention is the salvation of men, and it is called "the Church."155​

​

Here is a great retreat meditation…

This meditation was excerpted from Loving the Church: Spiritual Exercises Preached in the Presence of Pope John Paul II (Ignatius, 1997).
ignatiusinsight.com/features2005/schonborn_church_oct05.asp
​

​

Acts 9:3-5
New International Version (NIV)

3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”

5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.

“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied.

Colossians 1:18
New International Version (NIV)

18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

1 Corinthians 12:13
New International Version (NIV)

13 For we were all baptized by[a] one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free —and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

**1 Corinthians 12:27
New International Version (NIV)
**
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.

Colossians 2:16-19
New International Version (NIV)
Freedom From Human Rules

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19** They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.**

]Catechism of the Catholic Church

796 The unity of Christ and the Church, head and members of one Body, also implies the distinction of the** two within a personal relationship**. This aspect is often expressed by the image of bridegroom and bride. The theme of Christ as Bridegroom of the Church was prepared for by the prophets and announced by John the Baptist. The Lord referred to himself as the “bridegroom.” The Apostle speaks of** the whole Church and of each of the faithful, members of his Body, as a bride “betrothed” to Christ the Lord so as to become but one spirit with him.** The Church is the spotless bride of the spotless Lamb. “Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her.” He has joined her with himself in an everlasting covenant and never stops caring for her as for his own body:

This is the whole Christ, head and body, one formed from many . . . whether the head or members speak, it is Christ who speaks. He speaks in his role as the head (ex persona capitis) and in his role as body (ex persona corporis). What does this mean? “The two will become one flesh. This is a great mystery, and I am applying it to Christ and the Church.” And the Lord himself says in the Gospel: “So they are no longer two, but one flesh.” They are, in fact, two different persons, yet they are one in the conjugal union, . . . as head, he calls himself the bridegroom, as body, he calls himself “bride.”​

So…the question is not where is Jesus…the question is one of obedience and fidelity…to Him…to His Church…which is Him…its that simple and it is Truth.

**

Luke 10:16
New International Version (NIV)

**
Jesus Sending Out His Disciples
**
16 “Whoever listens to you listens to me**; whoever** rejects you rejects me**; but whoever** rejects me rejects him who sent me.**”

Pax Christi

 

[JRKH]

I don’t know how to formulate my question. Plz bare with me. Has anyone ever felt a need to find Jesus outside the church, scriptures and the magiesterium. I think im trying to find the real person of Christ in “real life”? Not on paper or in doctrine or prescribed beliefs from an institution (only). because of course the church is going to say it is true. Perhaps I am looking for direct confirmation from Jesus in my day to day life and not through religious practices that it is all really true. I feel like Jesus is asking me, “who do you say that I am?” My response right now might be along the lines of “I don’t know for sure. I know who you are supposed to be and who others say you are.” Hopefully someone can help me with this one because i am having difficulites putting words to what i am feeling. thx

This feels like you are trying to put together all of the various “pieces” that you have relating to Jesus into a coherent whole.
It feels to me like rather than saying you are looking “outside the church” you are trying to look beyond the common understandings and things you find in the normal course of Church practice…
You hope to sort of “cut through the rhetoric” and get to the core of who Christ is (who do you say that I am).

Far from being a bad thing, I believe this is a very good thing. It means that God is calling you into an even closer relationship with Himself.
Many great Saints and countless unknown ones have taken this journey.

If I am right in my understanding, you may find the book in my signature to be of great help to you in exploring this (It’s not my book. I don’t profit from it’s promotion).

Peace
James

 

[The_Reginator]

Catechism of the Catholic Church

Thanks for sharing that!

 

[fhansen]

I don’t know how to formulate my question. Plz bare with me. Has anyone ever felt a need to find Jesus outside the church, scriptures and the magiesterium. I think im trying to find the real person of Christ in “real life”? Not on paper or in doctrine or prescribed beliefs from an institution (only). because of course the church is going to say it is true. Perhaps I am looking for direct confirmation from Jesus in my day to day life and not through religious practices that it is all really true. I feel like Jesus is asking me, “who do you say that I am?” My response right now might be along the lines of “I don’t know for sure. I know who you are supposed to be and who others say you are.” Hopefully someone can help me with this one because i am having difficulites putting words to what i am feeling. thx

We’re to grow in the knowledge of God; the ultimate goal is to see Him face to face, of course, in the Beatific Vision, but the Catechism says that our faith, itself, is a dimmer counterpart of that vision. To the extent that we ask, seek, and knock, God responds by increasing our faith-and our vision becomes clearer. One way is by contemplating Christ, as revealed in Scripture and the teachings of our faith, because when we’ve seen Him we’ve seen see the Father (John 14). Little by little we come to know Him better, sometimes via spurts of grace-driven insights, otherwise progressively over time. As we grow in the knowledge of Jesus, we, ourselves, are growing in justice-justification.

 

[ejp123]

This feels like you are trying to put together all of the various “pieces” that you have relating to Jesus into a coherent whole.
It feels to me like rather than saying you are looking “outside the church” you are trying to look beyond the common understandings and things you find in the normal course of Church practice…
You hope to sort of “cut through the rhetoric” and get to the core of who Christ is (who do you say that I am).

Far from being a bad thing, I believe this is a very good thing. It means that God is calling you into an even closer relationship with Himself.
Many great Saints and countless unknown ones have taken this journey.

If I am right in my understanding, you may find the book in my signature to be of great help to you in exploring this (It’s not my book. I don’t profit from it’s promotion).

Peace
James

Yes, James, Thank You. I ordered the book as well. It looks fantastic based on the excerpt that I read.

 

[ejp123]

Matt 25:31+

:yup: Thank You

 

[JRKH]

Yes, James, Thank You. I ordered the book as well. It looks fantastic based on the excerpt that I read.

You are welcome.

Peace
James

 

[bmonk]

I don’t know how to formulate my question. Plz bare with me. Has anyone ever felt a need to find Jesus outside the church, scriptures and the magiesterium. I think im trying to find the real person of Christ in “real life”? Not on paper or in doctrine or prescribed beliefs from an institution (only). because of course the church is going to say it is true. Perhaps I am looking for direct confirmation from Jesus in my day to day life and not through religious practices that it is all really true. I feel like Jesus is asking me, “who do you say that I am?” My response right now might be along the lines of “I don’t know for sure. I know who you are supposed to be and who others say you are.” Hopefully someone can help me with this one because i am having difficulites putting words to what i am feeling. thx

I think we can only get to know Jesus through these means (Church, Scriptures, etc)–but they are intended to help bring us to the point of a personal relationship with Him as Savior, to be able to recognize His presence in our life. So without Church, Bible, Magisterium, Catechisms and doctrines, how would we know enough to recognize Him?

But–if we accept that the Church and the other aids are there for our help, and that God stands behind them to keep them honestly teaching about Jesus–then we can discover for ourselves how true all we have been taught is.

Knowing that we want Jesus in our lives, and that we don’t really know what that means–it’s a great way to make our faith more meaningful, to start that transition from something that others gave us and make it our own, to bring it to life, as Jesus hopes will happen.

 

[ConstantineTG]

So without Church, Bible, Magisterium, Catechisms and doctrines, how would we know enough to recognize Him?

Christian in the first 3 centuries did not have an official bible, no catechisms, no magisterium, no official doctrines.

 

[JRKH]

Christian in the first 3 centuries did not have an official bible, no catechisms, no magisterium, no official doctrines.

No magisterium??
I beg to differ. The magisterium then was the same as it is now…The Bishops of the Church.

It functioned much differently - but it existed all the same…

Peace
James

 

[The_Reginator]

The magisterium then was the same as it is now…The Bishops of the Church.

It functioned much differently - but it existed all the same…

Peace
James

I concur. Without the magisterium, as it existed at the time, there would be no teaching or writing and thus no New Testament.

The Church, being the Body of Christ, is integral to knowing our Lord and Saviour.

 

[JRKH]

I concur. Without the magisterium, as it existed at the time, there would be no teaching or writing and thus no New Testament.

The Church, being the Body of Christ, is integral to knowing our Lord and Saviour.

And upon reflection - the earliest evidence of a “formal” meeting of the magisterium is seen in Acts 15.

Peace
James

 

[bmonk]

Christian in the first 3 centuries did not have an official bible, no catechisms, no magisterium, no official doctrines.

No magisterium??
I beg to differ. The magisterium then was the same as it is now…The Bishops of the Church.

It functioned much differently - but it existed all the same…

Peace
James

And, while there was no official Bible, apart from the Septuagint, there were growing collections of texts, such at the Letters of Paul, or the Gospels. The New Testament was substantially collected by about 200, although a few texts were still teetering on the edge.

St. Paul himself has various doctrines, hymns and formulas included in his letters, such as Phil 2:6-11, or 1 Cor 11:23-29. They might not yet have been made “official” in the modern sense–but that was a development from the problems of not having things made clear. Many beliefs throughout the centuries only became officially formulated after being contested, such as the Creed, begun at Nicaea in 325, to express the faith that was being denied, but that had been held long before. Or the Real Presence–Transubstantiation was first used in the eleventh century, made official at the Fourth Lateran Council and affirmed at the Council of Trent–but it is already known in an earlier form even in that 1 Cor 11 text mentioned above, as well as such early authors as the Didache, St. Ignatius, and Justin Martyr. (Justin also mentions reading the “memoirs of the Apostles,” so the letters were already being collected, preserved and read.)

The full, “official” expression of all these may not have been set out yet, but we were getting there, especially as the need became more obvious.