A New Approach to Pro-Life

[jrgiancola]

I am a devout Catholic, but I do not support a ban on abortion. I will tell you my reasons and offer what I believe is a better suggestion. Banning abortion will not stop abortion. The wealthy will go to other countries to have it done; those who cannot afford this, will return to underground abortion clinics or self-abort; it’s been going on for centuries and will continue. I do NOT want to see women going underground. My idea is this: My church needs to start spending some of its vast resources to combat abortion in other ways. I suggest we start opening pro-life clinics, just as there are Planned Parenthood Clinics. We need places where women and men, not just Catholics, can go and get spiritual, emotional and educational support, and funds they need to bring a child into the world. Twenty years ago, my wife and I, unable to support a fourth child, were led by God to a small, underfunded clinic called “Womankind.” It was not a Catholic organization, but they not only helped us realize that we did not want to kill our child, but they provided the financial assistance we needed to get pre-natal care, deliver the child, and care for it after she was born. They provided diapers, formula, a stroller, a car seat, and the many things we could not afford to buy, until we were able to do this ourselves. It was quite an investment they made in our family. I thank God daily that we did not abort my beautiful daughter. But He used this small clinic to give us what we needed. We did NOT need a lot of religious dogma telling us about hell. What we needed was what I outlined above. I hear a lot of talk against Congress and abortion doctors. What I do NOT see is my church spending any real money to take a pro-life stand like I have described above. Talk is cheap. In the end, it means nothing. We need a massive undertaking by the Catholic Church to open pro-life clinics nationwide, to help financially those who want their children but cannot afford to have them. Let’s start putting our money where out mouth is. My church’s second collection every week is for a new hall it built; I would rather they had built a pro-life clinic. Joe Giancola P.S. I AM glad we stopped “partial birth abortion;” but this is not abortion , it is simply infanticide. If we really want to stop abortion, we need to be active as I’ve suggested, not merely stating a lot of platitudes, and attempting to derail health care reform. We Americans NEED health care reform; many of us cannot afford to take our children to the doctors office; I have my children on Medicaid. I do work, but am not provided health insurance. I cannot see a doctor when I need one, but thank God at least my children can. Do not derail health care reform in a hypocritical and futile attempt to stop abortion. Money needs to be spent on people who need help; let’s see some real pro-life activity, not mere words. Sincerely, Joe Giancola

 

[st_lucy]

Well to address you first part of your post. We want abortion outlawed simply because it is murder and should not happen. Yes it may still happen after it is outlawed just as murder happens all the time but is still outlawed, but it does give one a moment to reconsider.

To your second part of your post the Church as in the CC does support a ton of pro-life clinics, homes and counseling. You need to do some research on this but the Church does do a lot.

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

I am a devout Catholic, but I do not support a ban on abortion. I will tell you my reasons and offer what I believe is a better suggestion. Banning abortion will not stop abortion. The wealthy will go to other countries to have it done; those who cannot afford this, will return to underground abortion clinics or self-abort; it’s been going on for centuries and will continue. I do NOT want to see women going underground.

It makes it harder for women to do if it’s banned here. Period.

Outlawing murder doesn’t stop it, but it certainly limits people shooting other people indiscriminately, doesn’t it?

Women have been self-aborting since before the time of Christ. It wasn’t legal then, but numbers of abortions have compounded in this country. I am a sidewalk counselor, so I have an idea of what people say. One thing they tell me it that since it is legal, it is morally right. That means, if it is illegal, it will deter thousands if not millions from getting an abortion.

My idea is this: My church needs to start spending some of its vast resources to combat abortion in other ways. I suggest we start opening pro-life clinics, just as there are Planned Parenthood Clinics. We need places where women and men, not just Catholics, can go and get spiritual, emotional and educational support, and funds they need to bring a child into the world. Twenty years ago, my wife and I, unable to support a fourth child, were led by God to a small, underfunded clinic called “Womankind.” It was not a Catholic organization, but they not only helped us realize that we did not want to kill our child, but they provided the financial assistance we needed to get pre-natal care, deliver the child, and care for it after she was born. They provided diapers, formula, a stroller, a car seat, and the many things we could not afford to buy, until we were able to do this ourselves. It was quite an investment they made in our family.

Maybe you have never worked counseling as a pro-lifer, but I can tell you that that is what we recommend at the clinic I counsel at…We have a list of pro-life pregnancy centers where women can get free stuff, medical, and financial services. Believe me, just yelling that you’re killing a baby is not the thing to do. We tell them about these places and support them with money and donations. Many go to these for help. It’s been done already. Just recently in the news was this: Pregnancy Center Sign Bill Passes. These pregnancy centers are doing so well, they are under attack. Pray for them. Support them.

I thank God daily that we did not abort my beautiful daughter. But He used this small clinic to give us what we needed. We did NOT need a lot of religious dogma telling us about hell. What we needed was what I outlined above. I hear a lot of talk against Congress and abortion doctors. What I do NOT see is my church spending any real money to take a pro-life stand like I have described above. Talk is cheap. In the end, it means nothing.

You’d be surprised how many abortuaries do not have pro lifers outside. I struggle with this a lot. It’s difficult to get people to do this job, because it is a difficult job and it’s a volunteer job. I petition churches all the time. The thing is, you have to talk until you’re blue in the face and just keep badgering until the word is out and people come to help by counseling or being prayer warriors.

We need a massive undertaking by the Catholic Church to open pro-life clinics nationwide, to help financially those who want their children but cannot afford to have them. Let’s start putting our money where out mouth is. My church’s second collection every week is for a new hall it built; I would rather they had built a pro-life clinic. Joe Giancola P.S. I AM glad we stopped “partial birth abortion;” but this is not abortion , it is simply infanticide. If we really want to stop abortion, we need to be active as I’ve suggested, not merely stating a lot of platitudes, and attempting to derail health care reform. We Americans NEED health care reform; many of us cannot afford to take our children to the doctors office; I have my children on Medicaid. I do work, but am not provided health insurance. I cannot see a doctor when I need one, but thank God at least my children can. **Do not derail health care reform in a hypocritical and futile attempt to stop abortion. **

Money needs to be spent on people who need help; let’s see some real pro-life activity, not mere words. Sincerely, Joe Giancola

That’s the devil talking through you. You will be paying for other peoples’ abortions because of this bill, unless they change the abortion portion of it.

You’d be surprised how many catholic and ecumenical christian pro-life pregnancy help places are out there, such as CareNet, Project Rachel, Rachel’s Vineyard, Gabriel House, Mary’s Center, Birthright, Salvation Army, St. Vincent de Paul, among so many other small ones.

If you want to see activity, join us in the fight, don’t only use words.

 

[Schluns]

Joe,

Go to your Diocese website and look for the pro-life office and see what is available in your diocese, I think you may very well be surprised at what you find.

Google Catholic Pro - Life Charities, and while you are there, make a contribution in the name of your beautiful daughter.

call them up and ask them what you can do to assist in furthering the pro-life message.

Then go to D.C. on January 22 and march in the March for Life.

Then come back and re-read your original post.

you may mean well by your post, but clearly you do not have enough information on the health care bill nor Catholic Pro-Life Charities.

Please take the time to study both and open your heart and your mind to the reality of both.

 

[that_name]

There are Crisis Pregnancy Centers all OVER the USA. Please, find your local CPCs and donate to them, support them.

When abortion is illegal, only criminals will do abortions. Good, law abiding people will not participate.

 

[jrgiancola]

IF there are so many pro-life clinics, then why are they not advertised? I have never heard of one of them listed in the replies to my posting. People cannot use their services if they do not know they exist. I watch EWTN; I have never heard anyone speak of the availability of pro-life clinics. Why do they not post an 800 number where viewers can call in and find available services in their area? As for paying for other people’s abortions in the health care bill, nobody asked me if I wanted my taxes to pay for the Iraq war. That’s American politics; it’s always been that way and will never change. Millions of Americans need health care; the reform may not pass Congress if any further changes are made. Would you deny millions of Americans health care for this reason? Would you cut off our noses to spite our faces? You do not change morals by legislating them. You change morals by exposing those in need to the love of Jesus AND by giving them, in His name, the bread they need to live. Joe

 

[jrgiancola]

Furthermore, the devil can not speak through me. I’ve lived too long as a believer not to be able to recognize his voice. And the Divine Mercy protects me. My point is that Jesus changed peoples’ hearts with His words and His works. He did not need the government to impose his beliefs on anyone. When you rely on the government, you deny the ability of God to change peoples’ hearts by using His people to act toward others as Jesus did. When His church dabbles in politics, the church is diminished and demeaned. You seem to support the old adage: “When in Rome, do what the Romans do.” American politics is no place for His church. “Render unto Caesar… etc.” Abortion will cease when the peoples’ hearts are transformed, not when the government forbids it. Only God can transform a heart; that is our calling as Christians and Catholics: to change hearts, not to take political action. And again, what of those who desperately need the health care? Jesus healed the sick; you want to deny this healing to millions who cannot afford to take their children to see a doctor. Joe

 

[Timbothefiveth]

As for paying for other people’s abortions in the health care bill, nobody asked me if I wanted my taxes to pay for the Iraq war. That’s American politics; it’s always been that way and will never change.

Slavery was once allowed by American politics. That doesn’t make it okay. The Iraq war and abortion are also not the same thing.

Millions of Americans need health care; the reform may not pass Congress if any further changes are made.

Changed need to be made. It is not acceptable to pay to kill people so we can have healthcare reform. Would you support opening a concentration camp to enable healthcare reform?

Would you deny millions of Americans health care for this reason?

So we’re not paying to kill extra people? Sure. It does raise a question though. How is it healthcare if it pays to kill innocent people?

Would you cut off our noses to spite our faces?

Passing healthcare that funds abortion is like cutting off our face to spite our nose.

You do not change morals by legislating them.

While ending evil can’t be done without the Lord, changing the law was vitally important to ending racism and slavery.

You change morals by exposing those in need to the love of Jesus AND by giving them, in His name, the bread they need to live.

The Lord would want us to change this law. Remember “though shalt not kill”.

 

[tamrk]

I do have to agree with your last post about letting people know about the services. I volunteer at a crisis pregnancy center in a small (10,000 people) town. We are the only center for miles around. The Catholic Church does support the center with a few efforts throughout the year. Actually, the Knights are the ones who head it up. We have several pro-life advocates in our parish who do the political stuff, however, no one else that I know of volunteers their time there. To my knowledge, I am the only person in my 350+ parish that volunteers there and I work 50-60 hours a week at my “regular” job. I felt this was my way to SHOW my pro-life stance… by example, not just words.

Our site is supported by many churches. One of the unique aspects is the Earn While You Learn policy. We do not just hand out what is needed. Instead, clients earn “money” by attending counseling, dr. appt, going to church, taking childbirth and parenting classes. The money they earn can then be used to purchase baby items in our store.

Our wonderful staff has saved many lives, just by showing young women that there is an alternative. I just wish more people from our parish would walk the talk.

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

IF there are so many pro-life clinics, then why are they not advertised? I have never heard of one of them listed in the replies to my posting. People cannot use their services if they do not know they exist. I watch EWTN; I have never heard anyone speak of the availability of pro-life clinics.

EWTN is not the authority on pro life resources.

Why do they not post an 800 number where viewers can call in and find available services in their area?

Look in a phone book under abortion alternatives or under pregnancy centers.
They are advertised, but abortion clinics have a lot of money and the evil one hates pro-life.

I pass out literature about what local centers offer and where they are located.

As for paying for other people’s abortions in the health care bill, nobody asked me if I wanted my taxes to pay for the Iraq war. That’s American politics; it’s always been that way and will never change.

Yes, but it’s one thing paying for things that protect our soldiers, and quite another paying for deaths of millions of innocent children. Texas is still currently a state in the union, so you are still an American. It’s your affair.

Millions of Americans need health care; the reform may not pass Congress if any further changes are made. Would you deny millions of Americans health care for this reason? Would you cut off our noses to spite our faces? You do not change morals by legislating them. You change morals by exposing those in need to the love of Jesus AND by giving them, in His name, the bread they need to live. Joe

We don’t need rushed healthcare with a load of earmarks. If most congressmen don’t know what is in the disproportionately huge bill, they should not vote for it. It’s not that dire a need. If they have to pass it in this much of a rush, it makes one suspect as to the contents of the bill. I guarantee to you that this bill is done in part to pay off planned parenthood, which supports financially many pro-abortion candidates.

So…rushing it through congress even with you paying for abortion is more important? I think not.

You should read up on the needs of healthcare in the country somewhere other than a pro-abortion/anti-catholic source.

You don’t change morals by legislating them, but you certainly don’t want to legislate immoral things.

Sidewalk counseling by saying Jesus loves and giving out clothes will not solve everything and it won’t turn everyone around. It is different for every person. Most people are so angry when they go in, they want to run you over or punch you. Exposing people is something that only works some of the time, and again is case by case.

Please do some research as Schluns said. You really should to learn more about the topic. Please go to HLI, or Defend Life, or a good catholic pro life group online. What you’re arguing seems to be most likely from pro-abortion media.

 

[Timbothefiveth]

point is that Jesus changed peoples’ hearts with His words and His works. He did not need the government to impose his beliefs on anyone.

How could He change the government? I don’t think He was even allowed to vote.

When you rely on the government, you deny the ability of God to change peoples’ hearts by using His people to act toward others as Jesus did.

No we don’t. There is no conflict between anti-abortion laws and changing peoples’ hearts. If there was we should abolish all laws.

When His church dabbles in politics, the church is diminished and demeaned.

How so? By standing up for what is right?

American politics is no place for His church.

Yes it is. It is a place where we can try to give what’s right a voice.

“Render unto Caesar… etc.”

This is not ancient Rome. We have a voice here. Would He have told the senators in ancient Rome to allow all sorts of immorality or to pay for people to die?

Abortion will cease when the peoples’ hearts are transformed, not when the government forbids it.

The government forbidding something can drasticly reduce it. Should we rely solely on changes in peoples’ hearts to reduce theft or should we outlaw it?

Only God can transform a heart; that is our calling as Christians and Catholics: to change hearts, not to take political action.

That is not true, the USCCB says we should get involved in politics when allowed. By the way, you do realise you’re supporting a political viewpoint, right?

And again, what of those who desperately need the health care?

What of those who will be killed? We cannot commit an evil such murder to have a good result such as healthcare.

Jesus healed the sick; you want to deny this healing to millions who cannot afford to take their children to see a doctor

. No I don’t want to deny it. I also don’t want to kill anyone. Do you think He would say it’s okay to kill someone so you can heal another?

 

[jrgiancola]

Yes, abortion and killing of any kind is immoral. Yet, I don’t hear anyone asking Congress to ban war. What if we do ban abortion? What immorality shall we next ban? Shall we ban divorce? Jesus forbade it. Shall we imprison those who lust? Shall we burn adulterers at the stake? Shall we castrate homosexuals? The Taliban cuts off the hands of women who show them in public because they consider it immoral. If we start legislating morality, we become no better than the Taliban. We need to trust Our Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit to change the hearts of anyone who wants to kill. Our part is to enlighten those on the sanctity of all human life. Because there are still those who do not understand this, do we become like the Taliban? Our strongest weapon is prayer and trust in God. A government that legislates morality soon becomes a tyranny. Joe

 

[StrawberryJam]

I am a devout Catholic, but I do not support a ban on abortion. I will tell you my reasons and offer what I believe is a better suggestion. Banning abortion will not stop abortion. The wealthy will go to other countries to have it done; those who cannot afford this, will return to underground abortion clinics or self-abort; it’s been going on for centuries and will continue. I do NOT want to see women going underground. My idea is this: My church needs to start spending some of its vast resources to combat abortion in other ways. I suggest we start opening pro-life clinics, just as there are Planned Parenthood Clinics. We need places where women and men, not just Catholics, can go and get spiritual, emotional and educational support, and funds they need to bring a child into the world. Twenty years ago, my wife and I, unable to support a fourth child, were led by God to a small, underfunded clinic called “Womankind.” It was not a Catholic organization, but they not only helped us realize that we did not want to kill our child, but they provided the financial assistance we needed to get pre-natal care, deliver the child, and care for it after she was born. They provided diapers, formula, a stroller, a car seat, and the many things we could not afford to buy, until we were able to do this ourselves. It was quite an investment they made in our family. I thank God daily that we did not abort my beautiful daughter. But He used this small clinic to give us what we needed. We did NOT need a lot of religious dogma telling us about hell. What we needed was what I outlined above. I hear a lot of talk against Congress and abortion doctors. What I do NOT see is my church spending any real money to take a pro-life stand like I have described above. Talk is cheap. In the end, it means nothing. We need a massive undertaking by the Catholic Church to open pro-life clinics nationwide, to help financially those who want their children but cannot afford to have them. Let’s start putting our money where out mouth is. My church’s second collection every week is for a new hall it built; I would rather they had built a pro-life clinic. Joe Giancola P.S. I AM glad we stopped “partial birth abortion;” but this is not abortion , it is simply infanticide. If we really want to stop abortion, we need to be active as I’ve suggested, not merely stating a lot of platitudes, and attempting to derail health care reform. We Americans NEED health care reform; many of us cannot afford to take our children to the doctors office; I have my children on Medicaid. I do work, but am not provided health insurance. I cannot see a doctor when I need one, but thank God at least my children can. Do not derail health care reform in a hypocritical and futile attempt to stop abortion. Money needs to be spent on people who need help; let’s see some real pro-life activity, not mere words. Sincerely, Joe Giancola

Did you tell your Pastor about your need for baby items at that time? Maybe all parishes are different, but I think if you told the Pastor about a situation like this he could handle either getting your family the items, or directing you to where you could get them. I know there is a ministry for this in the parish I go to, but I don’t know the details on it.

 

[jrgiancola]

Banning abortion simply will not stop it Did Prohibition put an end to alcohol? It’s an easy way out, a bandaid rather than a cure. When all Christians, Catholics included, love each other the way Jesus did, there will be no more killing of any kind. Jesus is the answer; not politics.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Banning abortion simply will not stop it Did Prohibition put an end to alcohol? It’s an easy way out, a bandaid rather than a cure. When all Christians, Catholics included, love each other the way Jesus did, there will be no more killing of any kind. Jesus is the answer; not politics.

What about my post number 13?

I will debate your premise after you answer my post number 13.

 

[Timbothefiveth]

Yes, abortion and killing of any kind is immoral. Yet, I don’t hear anyone asking Congress to ban war.

War is not always immoral. If congress wanted to ban, say, bombing school-children, I’d support that.

What if we do ban abortion? What immorality shall we next ban?

It would depend what some big issues were at the time. Maybe excluding people from insurance plans over pre-existing conditions? That would be a good thing to ban if we didn’t have to kill anyone to do so.

Shall we ban divorce? Jesus forbade it.

Don’t see why not.

Shall we imprison those who lust? Shall we burn adulterers at the stake?

He didn’t stone the adulterer who repented, and I think similiar situations would apply to lust. What good would be done by punishing people in that manner?

Shall we castrate homosexuals?

Why would we?

The Taliban cuts off the hands of women who show them in public because they consider it immoral. If we start legislating morality, we become no better than the Taliban.

We already legislate morality. We outlaw murder, we outlaw theft, we outlaw cutting people’s hands off. If we don’t legislate proper morality we allow far worse than the taliban.

We need to trust Our Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit to change the hearts of anyone who wants to kill

It’s not that we can’t trust Him, it’s that statistically there wil be at least a few humans who reject Him in that manner and kill people. You certainly wouldn’t want me to pay for people to kill you and just hope they decide not to.

Our part is to enlighten those on the sanctity of all human life. Because there are still those who do not understand this, do we become like the Taliban?

Banning murder is not becoming like the taliban. Allowing such brutality as abortion is as evil as what the taliban does.

Our strongest weapon is prayer and trust in God.

Amen!

A government that legislates morality soon becomes a tyranny.

The only place that doesn’t legislate morality of some kind is Somalia.
People who devoted their whole lives to fighting tyranny, sometimes even resorting to measures I’m not sure I agree with, don’t look so unkindly on morality.

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

John Adams

I believe it was George Washington that said

It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.

Banning abortion simply will not stop it Did Prohibition put an end to alcohol?

Did amending the constitution put an end to slavery? Not entirely, but it’s drasticly reduced it.

It’s an easy way out, a bandaid rather than a cure.

It’s more like a tourniquet. It will drasticly reduce it. We can still do all the other stuff such as charity when it’s outlawed.

When all Christians, Catholics included, love each other the way Jesus did, there will be no more killing of any kind.

If all Christians were to love the way He did, we would still have non-christians killing. Of course, we would have a lot less poor people denied healthcare.

Jesus is the answer; not politics.

The two are not mutually exclusive. I believe that with His help politics can be used to accomplish His will, and the USCCB says the same. We could use politics, for instance, to try and pass real, non abortion-funding healthcare reform

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

**

Yes, abortion and killing of any kind is immoral. Yet, I don’t hear anyone asking Congress to ban war. What if we do ban abortion? What immorality shall we next ban? Shall we ban divorce? Jesus forbade it. Shall we imprison those who lust? Shall we burn adulterers at the stake? Shall we castrate homosexuals? The Taliban cuts off the hands of women who show them in public because they consider it immoral. If we start legislating morality, we become no better than the Taliban. We need to trust Our Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit to change the hearts of anyone who wants to kill. Our part is to enlighten those on the sanctity of all human life. Because there are still those who do not understand this, do we become like the Taliban? Our strongest weapon is prayer and trust in God. A government that legislates morality soon becomes a tyranny. Joe

**

Abortion is the killing of innocent human beings who did absolutely nothing wrong.

Meanwhile, we will be funding them just in case they choose they want to kill?!

Enlightening is good, but allowing legislation that allows murder is not good. Our American values system is Judeo-Christian. What you want is anarchy.

 

[jrgiancola]

StrawberryJam: When my family was struggling and I was unemployed with three children, my pastor referred me to the St. Vincent de Paul Society. The man who managed it offered little or no help at all. He frankly did not want to part with any money. For this reason, I have never since and never will give money to that organization. Joe

 

[jrgiancola]

I don’t see any point in arguing anymore; no one has changed anyone’s mind. But in summary, I’d like to see the following: 1. A massive, well-funded and well-advertised expansion of pro-life clinics, preferably right next to Planned Parenthood Clinics; 2. The Catholic Church increase its evangelization with the message that “God is Love;” 3. All churches stay out of politics; Christ does not need warrior Christians; rather He needs Christians who imitate HIMSELF; 4. Passage of the health care reform bill because it IS desperately needed NOW.

As an aside, the Pharisees accused Jesus of preaching anarchy too. And laws against murder and stealing do not prevent it from occurring in mass numbers, particularly in this country. We need to each do our part to change the hearts and minds of Americans, instead of dragging our churches down to the level of politicians who, in my opinion, are the modern-day “tax collectors” of Jesus’ time. Jesus was not a politician; He was Perfect Love and He called us to be the same. Love conquers evil; the government is inherently evil so how can evil conquer evil? Whenever a religion gets in bed with the secular government, that religion is inevitably corrupted by the government. I trust God to end abortion in His way, Jesus’ way. Joe

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

I don’t see any point in arguing anymore; no one has changed anyone’s mind. But in summary, I’d like to see the following: 1. A massive, well-funded and well-advertised expansion of pro-life clinics, preferably right next to Planned Parenthood Clinics; 2. The Catholic Church increase its evangelization with the message that “God is Love;” 3. All churches stay out of politics; Christ does not need warrior Christians; rather He needs Christians who imitate HIMSELF; 4. Passage of the health care reform bill because it IS desperately needed NOW.

As an aside, the Pharisees accused Jesus of preaching anarchy too. And laws against murder and stealing do not prevent it from occurring in mass numbers, particularly in this country. We need to each do our part to change the hearts and minds of Americans, instead of dragging our churches down to the level of politicians who, in my opinion, are the modern-day “tax collectors” of Jesus’ time. Jesus was not a politician; He was Perfect Love and He called us to be the same. Love conquers evil; the government is inherently evil so how can evil conquer evil? Whenever a religion gets in bed with the secular government, that religion is inevitably corrupted by the government. I trust God to end abortion in His way, Jesus’ way. Joe

I agree that this argument is futile. You seem to only be a trolling evangelical anyway.