A New Approach to Pro-Life

[benedictus2]

The only problem is that the government ALREADY legislates morality, and it will continue to do so. The real question, then, is who’s morality are our laws based on?

Why God of course. He is the only arbiter of morallity.

 

[st_lucy]

Banning abortion simply will not stop it Did Prohibition put an end to alcohol? It’s an easy way out, a bandaid rather than a cure. When all Christians, Catholics included, love each other the way Jesus did, there will be no more killing of any kind. Jesus is the answer; not politics.

I am wondering how you can compare prohibition to abortion? These are two different things. One was regulating something that is only sinful if it is abused the other is always always ALWAYS sinful.

 

[iluvburpees]

I am wondering how you can compare prohibition to abortion? These are two different things. One was regulating something that is only sinful if it is abused the other is always always ALWAYS sinful.

I was just about to make this point. Comparing alcohol (a good which can be abused) with abortion (an intrinsic evil) on the same level is a pure fallacy. It’s like saying “Oh, I don’t think it should be considered wrong for a brother to strike his brother out of anger, since it’s not considered wrong for a father to strike his son out of anger in punishment.” Um, Hello? That’s because they’re completely different levels of morality.

And the whole “let everyone love each other and everything will be all right” is the same liberal garbage we’ve been hearing for years. I’m sorry, but God did not simply say “love each other,” he also gave us 10 commandments to follow in order to see whether we really do love Him and each other. They are not the 10 suggestions. Applying the OP’s same logic, we should not have any laws at all. After all, it won’t stop people from committing those crimes, right?

 

[benedictus2]

And the whole “let everyone love each other and everything will be all right” is the same liberal garbage we’ve been hearing for years. I’m sorry, but God did not simply say “love each other,” he also gave us 10 commandments to follow in order to see whether we really do love Him and each other. They are not the 10 suggestions. Applying the OP’s same logic, we should not have any laws at all. After all, it won’t stop people from committing those crimes, right?

Yes. Like I said before, love is not nice feelings. Love is not schmaltz. Love must be grounded on reason.

 

[x0stephanie]

Outlawing abortion would cause people to think twice about having pre-martial sex. The reason so many treat sex and the possibility of pregnancy so casually now is because of how easy abortions are to obtain (I live in Canada)… they are free for everyone, and there is no limit on how many you can have.

I worked in a hospital and everytime I saw the OR slate it was full of 17 yr old girls scheduled for D&C’s… People just view it as an option thats easy to obtain.

 

[LotusCarsLtd]

Well to address you first part of your post. We want abortion outlawed simply because it is murder and should not happen. Yes it may still happen after it is outlawed just as murder happens all the time but is still outlawed, but it does give one a moment to reconsider.

To your second part of your post the Church as in the CC does support a ton of pro-life clinics, homes and counseling. You need to do some research on this but the Church does do a lot.

I would also add for the OP that we should look at the example of Poland and the US: when the US legalized abortion in 1973 the number of abortions rose sharply. When Poland made abortion illegal in 1993 (except in certain strict cases) the number of abortions fell.

Many women I think would think twice before trying to abort if abortion was made illegal. The number of available abortion doctors would drop drastically and many women would subsequently opt to keep their children.

Needless to say the use of services of pro-life crisis pregnancy centers would skyrocket so these centers would need to be prepared to deal with the influx.

 

[benedictus2]

I would also add for the OP that we should look at the example of Poland and the US: when the US legalized abortion in 1973 the number of abortions rose sharply. When Poland made abortion illegal in 1993 (except in certain strict cases) the number of abortions fell.

Many women I think would think twice before trying to abort if abortion was made illegal. The number of available abortion doctors would drop drastically and many women would subsequently opt to keep their children.

Needless to say the use of services of pro-life crisis pregnancy centers would skyrocket so these centers would need to be prepared to deal with the influx.

I would classify that OP under the “dim the lights” operation of the devil as Peter Kreeft put it in his book Snakebite letters.

The good thing about the OP is now that it is posted, the light can be shed on its errors and hopefully anyone viewing this thread will come away better informed.

 

[zach_dunn]

Dear rwillenborg: That sounds fantastic, just like what I’ve envisioned. Places like you’ve described have an infinitely greater chance of stopping abortion than a governmental ban. I wish more Catholics would understand this and jump on the bandwagon. This is the kind of thing Jesus would have done. He would never have asked the government to solve a moral issue. Joe

Yup, yup, yup! Jesus would have loved to pay for the killing of His innocent creations!!!

 

[jrgiancola]

Seems to me that most of you, not all, but most of you are so consumed with the idea of stopping abortion at any cost, but once the child is born, you stop caring about the needs of the living child and its mother and family. The whole plan seems to be stop abortion, but once the baby is born, the heck with it. You must all be a bunch of republicans. Stop abortion, but also stop health care reform, welfare, medicaid, medicare; give tax cuts to the rich and not the middle class; let the poor and homeless fend for themselves because they must be lazy or drug addicts; let the church be our government especially the born again christians who we all know are without sin; stop funding for education especially for the poor; give tax credits which the poor and middle class cannot utilize because first they have to put out the money they don’t have before they can take the credit; ban and censor anyone who disagrees with you; war is necessary; etc., etc., etc. Same old stuff we’ve been hearing since Nixon. You’ve become so obsesses and fanatical about abortion that you’ve abandoned all the other worthy CHRISTIAN causes that still exist from time immemorial. Jesus said feed the hungry, care for and heal the sick, visit those in prison, pray for those who curse you, provide for widows and orphans, pay a worker his fair wage, love one another “as I have loved you.” At least get consistent; all life is sacred, not just the life of the unborn child. Joe

 

[st_lucy]

**Seems to me that most of you, not all, but most of you are so consumed with the idea of stopping abortion at any cost, but once the child is born, you stop caring about the needs of the living child and its mother and family. ** The whole plan seems to be stop abortion, but once the baby is born, the heck with it. You must all be a bunch of republicans. Stop abortion, but also stop health care reform, welfare, medicaid, medicare; give tax cuts to the rich and not the middle class; let the poor and homeless fend for themselves because they must be lazy or drug addicts; let the church be our government especially the born again christians who we all know are without sin; stop funding for education especially for the poor; give tax credits which the poor and middle class cannot utilize because first they have to put out the money they don’t have before they can take the credit; ban and censor anyone who disagrees with you; war is necessary; etc., etc., etc. Same old stuff we’ve been hearing since Nixon. You’ve become so obsesses and fanatical about abortion that you’ve abandoned all the other worthy CHRISTIAN causes that still exist from time immemorial. Jesus said feed the hungry, care for and heal the sick, visit those in prison, pray for those who curse you, provide for widows and orphans, pay a worker his fair wage, love one another “as I have loved you.” At least get consistent; all life is sacred, not just the life of the unborn child. Joe

And how in the world did you come up with this conclusion? Do you know any of us personally to get that? Or are you one of those people who can read souls and minds?

 

[vz71]

Seems to me that most of you, not all, but most of you are so consumed with the idea of stopping abortion at any cost, but once the child is born, you stop caring about the needs of the living child and its mother and family.

If you wanted to open the topic further then the unborn you should have done so.
You shouldn’t open a thread with abortion and then complain that no one addressed anything other then abortion.
The fact that people kept to your topic is not an inication of uncaring for the born, nor should it be read as such.

You must all be a bunch of republicans.

I really doubt that is true. No one has identified their political affiliation.
What they have identified is a common feeling toward life.

Stop abortion, but also stop health care reform, welfare, medicaid, etc., etc., etc.

All of which was never mentioned.
It looks like you are trying to set up a straw man to knock down.

You’ve become so obsesses and fanatical about abortion that you’ve abandoned all the other worthy CHRISTIAN causes that still exist from time immemorial…At least get consistent; all life is sacred, not just the life of the unborn child. Joe

Oh bravo!
That straw man fell down pretty nicely. I could even feel the crash from here.
And that noble accusing finger that brought it all to a glorious end…I am in awe.

Now then, let’s get back to the real topics and not the straw men the OP wants to set in place.
Abortion is evil, and must be stopped.
For reasons unknown, the original poster wants us to abandon efforts to outlaw it.
I am kind of curious as to why. Why would the original poster want to weaken the pro-life cause?

 

[benedictus2]

Seems to me that most of you, not all, but most of you are so consumed with the idea of stopping abortion at any cost, but once the child is born, you stop caring about the needs of the living child and its mother and family. The whole plan seems to be stop abortion, but once the baby is born, the heck with it. You must all be a bunch of republicans.

Not quite. You are reading that into our posts but it is not there.

What we are saying is stop abortion first. That the economic problems are what bring on abortion IS A BIG LIE. A lie that the devil wants you to swallow.

What brings on abortion is SIN. The idolatry of the self. It is exatly as Mother Theresa said: To kill the baby so that you can live as you wish.

God said: Seek ye first the kingdom of God and everything else will be added.

Your outlook is the other way around.

Don’t fall for the devil’s tactic of “dimming the lights”

I come from a family 10 children. We were very, very, very poor when I was growing up. My parents really could only probably afford to raise 1 child at the most. But we manged. It seems now that poverty is the “sin” that must be avoided at all cost.

We all manged to go through university and now are all gainfully employed and my mother has now many grandchildren. She trusted in God.

This seems to be a truth that we are slowly rubbing out from out approach to life. God will be provide. But we need to seek His Kingdom first.

What needs to be changed is our focus and values. Our values should align with God’s will first and foremost.

 

[YADA]

Seems to me that most of you, not all, but most of you are so consumed with the idea of stopping abortion at any cost, but once the child is born, you stop caring about the needs of the living child and its mother and family. The whole plan seems to be stop abortion, but once the baby is born, the heck with it. You must all be a bunch of republicans.

Really - have you actually been reading the threads because I told you about Father Taaffe’s Homes for UnWed Mothers … and gave you links - did you go read about them The forst Home was started in 1974 … How about the other things I told you about? The Traveling Crib - filled with baby needs including fornula, diapers, clothes, car seats, nbaby furniture, etc … Or the appeal thay was made to my parish regarding a family that was told to abort triplets - they have arrived and the family was provided with al the immediate needs and will recieve ongoing help. How about JOIN I am fairly sure I mentioned it - being one of my favorite causes - they move poeple fromt he streets into permanent housing [singles and families] with tremendous sucess - but they can;t take tax monies - or I should say they don’t …those $$'s come with strings attached that set people up to fail … JOIN tracks peoplle for a full year after they are in permanent housing - there track record is very good some years over 90% are still in permanent housing … they average in the 80% … Government programs have people in poverty and subsidized housing for generations … …

Stop abortion, but also stop health care reform, welfare, medicaid, medicare; give tax cuts to the rich and not the middle class; let the poor and homeless fend for themselves because they must be lazy or drug addicts; let the church be our government especially the born again christians who we all know are without sin; stop funding for education especially for the poor; give tax credits which the poor and middle class cannot utilize because first they have to put out the money they don’t have before they can take the credit; ban and censor anyone who disagrees with you; war is necessary; etc., etc., etc. Same old stuff we’ve been hearing since Nixon. You’ve become so obsesses and fanatical about abortion that you’ve abandoned all the other worthy CHRISTIAN causes that still exist from time immemorial. Jesus said feed the hungry, care for and heal the sick, visit those in prison, pray for those who curse you, provide for widows and orphans, pay a worker his fair wage, love one another “as I have loved you.” At least get consistent; all life is sacred, not just the life of the unborn child. Joe

This is a rant from someone who expects someone else to solve the problems of the world - you abdicate your responsibility to the Government, the Republicans, the Pro_lifers, the Church, Your parish priest, the insert your favorite dog to kick here] … Look in the mirror … you came to this site with your agenda … the “New Approach” that you found out was* not new at all* - as all of your ideas are being done - and in your area- the only thing is - YOU - YOU are not assisting - in fact you never even ‘googled’ to see what resources were available, what groups you could join, where YOU, YES YOU could volunteer your time and talents and money to assist a woman in need …

Let me leave you with this TRUE story that happened last week - My friend - who prays before an Abortion Clinic [AND sho also volunteers at a Food Pantry and who volunteers on several other ministries involving the homeless and poor]. A cople was going into the clinic - the woman crying. It turned out tha this was a couple with three children - expecting a fourth - who were going to abort because the man was not getting lots of work [construction] and they were worried about the money. This woman [not really the best idea and she will not do exactly this again] gave the man her phone number and a list of resources for seeking assistance and told him that she would help them in any way that she could if they would consider giving their child a chance at life. They left and the man called her. They need $1200 for rent. He was catholic so she asked him his parish, got his phone number and promised to call him back. His home prish is helping to get them the financial assistance they need. My friend is giving $200 and the receptionist at his home parish has promised $400 and I am sure that by now the entire amount has been raised - and they will not be abandoned … and trust me - this couple will never regret having this child but they would have been torn apart if they had …

So Please … Don’t tell me who cares and who does not … he people I know and who have interacted with you here … they are the ones who move heaven and earth to help woman have and leep their children … they give money they don;t have and take risks [like handing out a phone number to a complete stanger] and donate they own money to help people … IMHO - it is those like you who use language like "you all must be republican … " who don’t care and don’t do …

 

[Jermosh]

Abortion has been with humanity since the beginning of man, laws will not remove it. The only way to remove abortion is by recognising the need as real and fill the need. Once a woman does not need to have an abortion, she wont. Proactivity is the key here.

 

[benedictus2]

Dear rwillenborg: That sounds fantastic, just like what I’ve envisioned. Places like you’ve described have an infinitely greater chance of stopping abortion than a governmental ban. I wish more Catholics would understand this and jump on the bandwagon. This is the kind of thing Jesus would have done. He would never have asked the government to solve a moral issue. Joe

You are sooooo right, Jesus would not have asked the government to solve a moral issue because there is NO MORAL ISSUE. Abortion is wrong, plain and simple simple murder, end of story.

Same way there is NO MORAL ISSUE WITH MURDER.

Do you think governments have meetings pondering the grave issue of whether killing someone with premeditation is a criminal act or not? Get real!

 

[benedictus2]

Abortion has been with humanity since the beginning of man, laws will not remove it. The only way to remove abortion is by recognising the need as real and fill the need. Once a woman does not need to have an abortion, she wont. Proactivity is the key here.

Take the blinders off. Some women will always have the “need” to have an abortion because “pride, greed, lust, and selfishness” will always be part of the human condition. Abortion is not an economic issue.

What is needed is metanoia, a turning away from sin. Take away sin and there will not be any need for abortion which is really sin being a solution to sin.

In this day and age when we are wealthier, supposed to be healthier and better informed abortion has risen exponentially.

So what has changed? Our perception of SIN. Once we get re-oriented back to the evil that it is, then abortion will drop. But it will never go away because the as I said above self-idolatry rules.

 

[Jermosh]

Take the blinders off. Some women will always have the “need” to have an abortion because “pride, greed, lust, and selfishness” will always be part of the human condition. Abortion is not an economic issue.

What is needed is metanoia, a turning away from sin. Take away sin and there will not be any need for abortion which is really sin being a solution to sin.

In this day and age when we are wealthier, supposed to be healthier and better informed abortion has risen exponentially.

So what has changed? Our perception of SIN. Once we get re-oriented back to the evil that it is, then abortion will drop. But it will never go away because the as I said above self-idolatry rules.

Who has the blinders on here? Do you honestly think you can stop sin?

 

[YADA]

Who has the blinders on here? Do you honestly think you can stop sin?

So, should we do away with laws regarding spouse/child abuse? What about rape? Infanticide? How about bank robbery?, Car theft? Larceny of all kinds? Driving while intoxicated? Manufacture, Distribution and / or Possesion of Cocaine, Marijuana, Oxycotin, Meth?..

Those are all moral issues, they are all sins and not one law has ever prevented them -

So why do we pass laws that we know will be broken by some people, ignored and disrespected?

In fact many people think all or some of the above are Okay to do - they don’t want you legislating their morality …

So if it is legal to kill a child in the womb why is it illegal to kill the child after it is born? [and there are some who think it should be acceptable to kill a disabled child upto 2 years post birth - ?

Some people in out governemnt today have written about how that policy should be allowed - Hitler’s Germany practiced it [and even older children and adults! and Margaret Sanger toured and approved of the German Solution] Perhaps we shoud just stop passing any laws and do away with the ones we have …

 

[benedictus2]

Who has the blinders on here? Do you honestly think you can stop sin?

I never said I could. Only Christ can do that. But you have completely taken that out of the equation so have actually taken Christ out of the equation as well.

I was just correcting you because you were attributing the cause of abortion to something else. The devil’s tactic of dimming the lights you know. Take the focus away from the real cause (sin) and come up with something like economics the way you have done.

So yes, take your blinders off. Stop buying into the devil’s rationale.

 

[elts1956]

Who has the blinders on here? Do you honestly think you can stop sin?

Isn’t that the whole point of Christ’s message? “Go and sin no more”. Now who said that???