A New Approach to Pro-Life

[st_lucy]

You are close to my point. Let me ask you this, where would Christ be at an abortion clinic? How would he get there? Do you honestly think He would be allowed to eat with sinners if treated them like sinners?

Christ would have been there just like those who do side walk counseling are. He talked to them gentle but with truth. He did brush aside the fact that they weren’t so bad because they were gentiles instead of Jews, or prostitutes instead of upright women, taxpayers instead of ect. Side walk counselors are at the front lines at the abortion mill, gently telling the women, and men that are walking into the mill what it is they are doing. The rest of us are away and praying silently. I know in my experience while praying at the mill I have never seen or heard another with us yell to a woman or man that they were going to hell. On the other hand I have heard and seen a lot worse done to us.

Jesus preached the truth as an example of how we should. And from what I have seen this is exactly what those who are in the front line of the pro-life movement are doing.

 

[dannyh010]

Joe,

I could not disagree with you more. Though I can appreciate your approach toward education and corporal assistance, the basic logic of your argument doesn’t hold water.

First, there are many pro-life clinics up and running as we speak. Besides the one that assisted you and your spouse, I am personal friends with a local doctor who heads a similar clinic in my area. So, the Church and her affiliates have already undertaken the task of helping those in need.

Second, to say that abortion should remain legal because people will pursue them anyway is the same logic that would apply to legalizing drug use for the same reason. Abortion, plain and simple, is murder, so says God and His Church. Any attempt to justify it’s continued legalization is a blatant opposition to our Father and His holy institution.

Life is life, and intentionally destroying it is murder no matter the method. For this reason, abortion must be banned, and those who continue to pursue it at that point should be criminally prosecuted.

 

[Jermosh]

Christ would have been there just like those who do side walk counseling are. He talked to them gentle but with truth. He did brush aside the fact that they weren’t so bad because they were gentiles instead of Jews, or prostitutes instead of upright women, taxpayers instead of ect. Side walk counselors are at the front lines at the abortion mill, gently telling the women, and men that are walking into the mill what it is they are doing. The rest of us are away and praying silently. I know in my experience while praying at the mill I have never seen or heard another with us yell to a woman or man that they were going to hell. On the other hand I have heard and seen a lot worse done to us.

Jesus preached the truth as an example of how we should. And from what I have seen this is exactly what those who are in the front line of the pro-life movement are doing.

He would have been in the clinic, not on the sidewalk talking to people. He would not tell them the truth, they would know the truth by His presence and actions. Why council from the sidewalk?

When I was younger and a long time before I was Catholic, there was a local scandal of sorts in my hometown, basically this lady was a councillor in a PP clinic, but she was also part of the local Catholic School and active in the attached parish. I ran into her a few years after the issue was raised, she still worked there and at the school and still active part of her parish, I questioned her on why. Her response was that she knows the abortion was wrong, but she also had the actual chance to change the minds of woman in need, she was able to show them the options beyond abortion. I was actually touched by her reasoning. So did she do this by compromising her morals? What was the end result? Where would Christ be?

 

[Jermosh]

Vunderbar. If more of us keep saying that, perhaps the OP and some others will finally get the point.

That is exactly what I said twice in this thread. The law is a great educator. My friends think that somehow abortion is moral because it is legal.

Drugs have been strictly regulated and made illegal for over a century, our Govt spends billions of dollars on “prevention” and 10x that much on incarceration. But yet there are still boats, planes, and people streaming the stuff into the US everyday.

Making something illegal does not mean people will stop. Thats just the reality of the issue.

 

[YADA]

This is why you will always be on the otherside of the fence, you cannot help anyone from that side of the fence.

Where did Christ stay and eat with? What side of the fence do you think that He would have been on? Do you think He would have been on the outside with a sign telling them they are all living in sin? Or do you think that He would be inside making people understand by His mere presence?

Also, you have still have not explained how you are going to stop people from being sinful.

And Christ had no prolem telling a sinner that their actions were wrong and that they should “go and sin no more”

Or does your bible have Jeus telling people that it was okay to commit sins and continue in that life style …like the woman caught in adultry … Mine reads “Is there no one left to accuse you? …Go and sin no more” …

Jesus did not just walk around silently or saying “I love you no matter what you do and what you continue to do” … No he actually told people that if they looked with lust at a woman they commited adultry …

Far different then in today’s world where as long as it is a private matter and the wife does not care its no problem … even if there is a blue dress …

 

[elts1956]

This is why you will always be on the otherside of the fence, you cannot help anyone from that side of the fence.

Where did Christ stay and eat with? What side of the fence do you think that He would have been on? Do you think He would have been on the outside with a sign telling them they are all living in sin? Or do you think that He would be inside making people understand by His mere presence?

Also, you have still have not explained how you are going to stop people from being sinful.

Exactly what do you mean about going to the “other” side of the fence? Do you mean change our values, ethics, morality to be one of the guys/gals? I will reach across, but I won’t go across.

 

[vz71]

Making something illegal does not mean people will stop. Thats just the reality of the issue.

No one has ever claimed it would.
But if it remains legal, it will facilitate that option among many.

It must be made illegal.

 

[Schn]

If you live in the United States and support ‘Pro-Life’, what are your thoughts on it and the constitution? Perhaps this new approach is the way to go about it that won’t violate the separation between religion and state?

 

[vz71]

If you live in the United States and support ‘Pro-Life’, what are your thoughts on it and the constitution? Perhaps this new approach is the way to go about it that won’t violate the separation between religion and state?

One of the fallacies with that argument is that it holds as a matter of faith the crime of abortion. Abortion is not evil simply because my religion says so any more then murder or rape is evil because my religion says so.

 

[Jermosh]

Jesus did not just walk around silently or saying “I love you no matter what you do and what you continue to do” …
\quote]
So we are not to love them no matter what? Calling someone a murderer and sinner is going to do what exactly? In the end it only makes the accuser have a false sense of accomplishment since the other party will ignore such a facade.

 

[Jermosh]

No one has ever claimed it would.
But if it remains legal, it will facilitate that option among many.

It must be made illegal.

But it wont. So do we as a pro-life culture move on and flank them, or do we continue to do a full frontal attack that has proven to be futile.

 

[vz71]

It must be made illegal.

But it wont.

With faith such as this, there is little wonder in why it is not illegal already.

So do we as a pro-life culture move on and flank them, or do we continue to do a full frontal attack that has proven to be futile.

Evil must be opposed on all fronts.

As soon as you make the decision to allow evil on one front because of perceived futility, evil has won.

 

[Jermosh]

With faith such as this, there is little wonder in why it is not illegal already.

Faith in what exactly? Why do you think that God allows abortion? As again what has the legal route gotten us?

 

[vz71]

Faith in what exactly? Why do you think that God allows abortion? As again what has the legal route gotten us?

Your faith that abortion will never be made illegal.

This approach, as I said earlier, is neither new or pro-life. It is an argument born from the pro-death crowd when they realized efforts to make abortion illegal were becoming effective.
The pro-death crowd new that given time this practice would be illegal, so they attempted to sidetrack efforts towards the legal route into something much less damaging to their cause.

A concession to evil is a concession to evil. Allowing it to legally continue is a concession to evil.

 

[djeter]

We want abortion outlawed simply because it is murder QUOTE]

You know I don’t think the Church calls it murder because that would imply penalties/punishment – Doctors being put in jail etc.

Am I wrong? I sense you are running with the ball here a bit.

dj

 

[st_lucy]

st lucy;6100335:

We want abortion outlawed simply because it is murder QUOTE]

You know I don’t think the Church calls it murder because that would imply penalties/punishment – Doctors being put in jail etc.

Am I wrong? I sense you are running with the ball here a bit.

dj

It is murder, not only because the church says this but simply because it is. Murder is the killing of another. Abortion is the killing of another. So therefor abortion is murder. We need to stop dancing around facts. The fact is abortion kills, snuffs out, ends, etc. the life another human being. We as a society will not stand for it with anyone else but when it is someone that we refuse to see as human we all of a sudden pretend it is not murder. That is a bit ridiculous.

 

[Jermosh]

Your faith that abortion will never be made illegal.

This approach, as I said earlier, is neither new or pro-life. It is an argument born from the pro-death crowd when they realized efforts to make abortion illegal were becoming effective.
The pro-death crowd new that given time this practice would be illegal, so they attempted to sidetrack efforts towards the legal route into something much less damaging to their cause.

A concession to evil is a concession to evil. Allowing it to legally continue is a concession to evil.

So as again, how is that legal route going exactly?

Please contemplate on these:
Roms 12:19-21
1 Cor 9:19-23
Mat 10:16
Mat 25:51-53

Also read on Rogerian method and Socrates method.

 

[Jermosh]

djeter;6163259:

It is murder, not only because the church says this but simply because it is. Murder is the killing of another. Abortion is the killing of another. So therefor abortion is murder. We need to stop dancing around facts. The fact is abortion kills, snuffs out, ends, etc. the life another human being. We as a society will not stand for it with anyone else but when it is someone that we refuse to see as human we all of a sudden pretend it is not murder. That is a bit ridiculous.

Please show where the Church calls it murder and what it calls murder.

 

[fix]

The moral gravity of procured abortion is apparent in all its truth if we recognize that we are dealing with murder and, in particular, when we consider the specific elements involved. The one eliminated is a human being at the very beginning of life. No one more absolutely innocent could be imagined. In no way could this human being ever be considered an aggressor, much less an unjust aggressor! He or she is weak, defenceless, even to the point of lacking that minimal form of defence consisting in the poignant power of a newborn baby’s cries and tears…

Evangelium vitae

 

[fix]

In the case of an intrinsically unjust law, such as a law permitting abortion or euthanasia, it is therefore never licit to obey it, or to “take part in a propaganda campaign in favour of such a law, or vote for it”.98

…Christians, like all people of good will, are called upon under grave obligation of conscience not to cooperate formally in practices which, even if permitted by civil legislation, are contrary to God’s law. Indeed, from the moral standpoint, it is never licit to cooperate formally in evil. Such cooperation occurs when an action, either by its very nature or by the form it takes in a concrete situation, can be defined as a direct participation in an act against innocent human life or a sharing in the immoral intention of the person committing it. This cooperation can never be justified either by invoking respect for the freedom of others or by appealing to the fact that civil law permits it or requires it. Each individual in fact has moral responsibility for the acts which he personally performs; no one can be exempted from this responsibility…