A New Approach to Pro-Life

[AnotherVoice]

The truth that murder is wrong is self evident regardless of faith or not.

 

[Schn]

I am against abortion on several levels; one of which is religious. I believe abortion is the taking of an innocent human life, do agree with that or not? I believe that taking an innocent life is morally wrong, again do you agree or disagree?

Disagree, agree, respectively.

To be honest, in my circles I have found more “pro-life” athiests and pagan ratios then “Christian”. I know of one “minister” who actually drove girls to the clinic and promoted it in her sermons no less.

Nice anecdote.

It’s based on natural law, not a structured religion. Natural law comes from God, no matter what your religious persuasion might be. If we cut down all the trees in the world, this would effect everyone, every living thing. We would die. If we kill all the babies, who will be our future? Who will be there for humanity when help is needed. Russia is now paying women to have children. Their rate of growth in tecnology etc. surpasses the number of people to manage it. The old people are dying and almost two generations of children have been aborted. How is that religion and not natural law at work.

By natural law, do you mean what occurs only in nature? I hope you’re not using a computer to post here.

The truth that murder is wrong is self evident regardless of faith or not.

Oh yes, I agree. We’re not discussing murder though.

 

[AnotherVoice]

Disagree, agree, respectively.

Thanks for clearing that up. I believe we each provide a good example of why labels such as “pro-life” and “pro-choice” don’t work. We are both commenting on a thread dealing with a new approach to pro-life; I believe human life begins in the womb and you disagree.

Little wonder we can not reach agreement on any approach, new or old.

For what it may be worth to you my belief is based upon being told by multiple people involved in medicine that shortly after conception a new and unique DNA sequence is formed. It is not that of the mother or the father, although very close. It is also one that will never be repeated, so if we destroy that small person there will never be another exact duplicate. I believe the unborn child, complete with a soul, to be a human being, deserving of all the same respect and dignity as you and I.

 

[Jermosh]

Do you approve of abortion, disapprove if it or are still trying to arrive at an answer?

I firmly disapprove of abortion on all cases other then gray areas such cases like ectopic. But what I am and others are attempting to say is that we need to be able to reach out to others to understand their viewpoint of abortion and why they justify it and to be understanding of it. This of course gives the facade that one has to compromise justification and validate the abortion justifications, which is false. As again read the scripture I posted, read up on Rogerian and Socrates method for understanding of this critical thinking method.

 

[Jermosh]

Do you approve of abortion, disapprove if it or are still trying to arrive at an answer?

Thanks for clearing that up. I believe we each provide a good example of why labels such as “pro-life” and “pro-choice” don’t work. We are both commenting on a thread dealing with a new approach to pro-life; I believe human life begins in the womb and you disagree.

Little wonder we can not reach agreement on any approach, new or old.

For what it may be worth to you my belief is based upon being told by multiple people involved in medicine that shortly after conception a new and unique DNA sequence is formed. It is not that of the mother or the father, although very close. It is also one that will never be repeated, so if we destroy that small person there will never be another exact duplicate. I believe the unborn child, complete with a soul, to be a human being, deserving of all the same respect and dignity as you and I.

Where the challenge for you is how do you put these thoughts in layman’s terms for others who do not “believe”? Its simply impossible to force others to “believe”, many have tried before and usually ended up in some humanitarian disaster or another. Or do you just stand behind the line in the sand?

 

[Schn]

Thanks for clearing that up. I believe we each provide a good example of why labels such as “pro-life” and “pro-choice” don’t work. We are both commenting on a thread dealing with a new approach to pro-life; I believe human life begins in the womb and you disagree.

Little wonder we can not reach agreement on any approach, new or old.

For what it may be worth to you my belief is based upon being told by multiple people involved in medicine that shortly after conception a new and unique DNA sequence is formed. It is not that of the mother or the father, although very close. It is also one that will never be repeated, so if we destroy that small person there will never be another exact duplicate. I believe the unborn child, complete with a soul, to be a human being, deserving of all the same respect and dignity as you and I.

If unique DNA is your criteria for human beings, identical twins may not like you. Note also you may have to give human rights to single cells with unique DNA.

 

[elts1956]

Disagree, agree, respectively.

Nice anecdote.

By natural law, do you mean what occurs only in nature? I hope you’re not using a computer to post here.

Oh yes, I agree. We’re not discussing murder though.

Natural Law is that law, which if ignored causes natural consequences. ie. destroy the earth, die. Destroy infants by the millions, if left unchecked, we will destroy ourselves.

Of course I’m using a computer silly, and using my natural brain and fingers to post. Sometimes technology comes in handy. I haven’t said all technology is evil just that many of the uses of it is evil.

 

[elts1956]

Disagree, agree, respectively.

Nice anecdote.

By natural law, do you mean what occurs only in nature? I hope you’re not using a computer to post here.

Oh yes, I agree. We’re not discussing murder though.

If unique DNA is your criteria for human beings, identical twins may not like you. Note also you may have to give human rights to single cells with unique DNA.

Human DNA is human DNA a truth you can’t deny whether it be contained in one human infant, or two, or three ad infinitum…conceived by the same father and mother.

 

[Schn]

Natural Law is that law, which if ignored causes natural consequences. ie. destroy the earth, die. Destroy infants by the millions, if left unchecked, we will destroy ourselves.

Of course I’m using a computer silly, and using my natural brain and fingers to post. Sometimes technology comes in handy. I haven’t said all technology is evil just that many of the uses of it is evil.

Natural consequences are greatly more numerous then the destruction of the earth. The ‘natural consequence’ of planting a seed is that a plant may grow. Please find an alternative word, natural law is not what you want.

Human DNA is human DNA a truth you can’t deny whether it be contained in one human infant, or two, or three ad infinitum…conceived by the same father and mother.

Then what’s your definition of unique? If your criteria is only human DNA, every time I cut my hair I commit genocide.

 

[Jermosh]

If unique DNA is your criteria for human beings, identical twins may not like you. Note also you may have to give human rights to single cells with unique DNA.

Do you mean single cells as in an egg or sperm?

The Govt already gives human rights to the unborn in certain situations. See Scott Peterson for an example.

 

[elts1956]

Natural consequences are greatly more numerous then the destruction of the earth. The ‘natural consequence’ of planting a seed is that a plant may grow. Please find an alternative word, natural law is not what you want.

Then what’s your definition of unique? If your criteria is only human DNA, every time I cut my hair I commit genocide.

Yes, Natural Law is what I meant. The consequences of ignoring it are destructive. If you don’t plant that seed, if edible, you may starve. All things work together to create balance.

Who knows, maybe it does scream. Done any tests on it? Even plants have screams (voices) of their own. Also auras. Check it out.

 

[Schn]

Do you mean single cells as in an egg or sperm?

You know, blood cells, stomach cells. Pretty much every cell in the human body has a complete copy of the DNA.

The Govt already gives human rights to the unborn in certain situations. See Scott Peterson for an example.

I’m not interested in the american government. I’d like to argue from logic not authority.

 

[Schn]

Yes, Natural Law is what I meant. The consequences of ignoring it are destructive. If you don’t plant that seed, if edible, you may starve. All things work together to create balance.

Therefore I should spend my entire life planting seeds. This natural law stuff doesn’t make any sense, since there are many things that could be done that will have positive outcomes, and if not done, may have negative consequences. You can’t possibly do all of them.

Who knows, maybe it does scream. Done any tests on it? Even plants have screams (voices) of their own. Also auras. Check it out.

You are being facetious.

 

[elts1956]

Therefore I should spend my entire life planting seeds. This natural law stuff doesn’t make any sense, since there are many things that could be done that will have positive outcomes, and if not done, may have negative consequences. You can’t possibly do all of them.

You are being facetious.

You mentioned it first. Uh huh.

Hmmm. Natural Law???

lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/jan/10011406.html

UN: Elderly to Outnumber Children for First Time in 2045
By Kathleen Gilbert
January 14, 2010 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A new report from the United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs concludes that the number of elderly people worldwide will outnumber children for the first time in 2045, forecasting the start of a “demographic winter” some experts say could constitute the biggest international crisis in the coming century.
According to the report, “World Population Ageing 2009,” 22% of the world’s population will be older than 60 years within forty years - a jump from 11% in 2009, and 8% in 1950.
FPRIVATE “TYPE=PICT;ALT=”

A trend of low birth rates perpetuated worldwide with the ascendancy of contraception and abortion has caused the elderly population to increase by 2.6% per year - three times faster than the overall world population growth. The 60+ age group will triple its size at the beginning of the millenium, reaching 2 billion by 2050.
The UN noted that the imbalance will have a major impact on the worldwide working-age community - upon whom it will fall to support the disproportionately aged population. The dramatic shift in demographics, they said, will impact life in various aspects, including economic growth, investment, consumption, pensions, taxation, and health care.
“As children account for a declining proportion of the population, there may be a reduction in the number of schools just as the increasing share of the older population begins to require more long-term care facilities,” wrote the authors of the report. “In the political arena, population aging may shape voting patterns and political representation.”
Pro-family leader Don Feder at the January 2009 March for Life Rose Dinner warned of a coming free-fall of birth rates and the attendant economic devastation, saying it “could result in the greatest crisis humanity will confront in this century.”
“Simply put: humanity is failing to reproduce itself in sufficient numbers to maintain our civilization,” said Feder.
He pointed out that the children missing from today’s low birth rate, who would have otherwise had children and grandchildren of their own, “will create an ever-accelerating downward spiral” of population.
“Schools will be turned into nursing homes. Playgrounds will become graveyards,” said Feder - words echoed in the UN report.
“Who will run our factories and farms?” he asked. "where will the police, doctors, nurses and emergency personnel come from? …
“Over the past 200 years, the world’s population grew from 980 million to 6.5 billion. That population explosion fueled every advance from the industrial revolution to the computer age,” Feder continued. "But what happens when populations begin to decline?
“We’ve built a civilization that depends on people - and lots of them. What happens when more and more becomes less and less?”

 

[Schn]

You mentioned it first. Uh huh.

No, you’re just evading my destruction of your attempted criteria for human rights as human DNA.

Hmmm. Natural Law???

lifesitenews.com/ldn/2010/jan/10011406.html

UN: Elderly to Outnumber Children for First Time in 2045
By Kathleen Gilbert
January 14, 2010 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A new report from the United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs concludes that the number of elderly people worldwide will outnumber children for the first time in 2045, forecasting the start of a “demographic winter” some experts say could constitute the biggest international crisis in the coming century.
According to the report, “World Population Ageing 2009,” 22% of the world’s population will be older than 60 years within forty years - a jump from 11% in 2009, and 8% in 1950.
FPRIVATE “TYPE=PICT;ALT=”

A trend of low birth rates perpetuated worldwide with the ascendancy of contraception and abortion has caused the elderly population to increase by 2.6% per year - three times faster than the overall world population growth. The 60+ age group will triple its size at the beginning of the millenium, reaching 2 billion by 2050.
The UN noted that the imbalance will have a major impact on the worldwide working-age community - upon whom it will fall to support the disproportionately aged population. The dramatic shift in demographics, they said, will impact life in various aspects, including economic growth, investment, consumption, pensions, taxation, and health care.
“As children account for a declining proportion of the population, there may be a reduction in the number of schools just as the increasing share of the older population begins to require more long-term care facilities,” wrote the authors of the report. “In the political arena, population aging may shape voting patterns and political representation.”
Pro-family leader Don Feder at the January 2009 March for Life Rose Dinner warned of a coming free-fall of birth rates and the attendant economic devastation, saying it “could result in the greatest crisis humanity will confront in this century.”
“Simply put: humanity is failing to reproduce itself in sufficient numbers to maintain our civilization,” said Feder.
He pointed out that the children missing from today’s low birth rate, who would have otherwise had children and grandchildren of their own, “will create an ever-accelerating downward spiral” of population.
“Schools will be turned into nursing homes. Playgrounds will become graveyards,” said Feder - words echoed in the UN report.
“Who will run our factories and farms?” he asked. "where will the police, doctors, nurses and emergency personnel come from? …
“Over the past 200 years, the world’s population grew from 980 million to 6.5 billion. That population explosion fueled every advance from the industrial revolution to the computer age,” Feder continued. "But what happens when populations begin to decline?
“We’ve built a civilization that depends on people - and lots of them. What happens when more and more becomes less and less?”

The alternative is overpopulation. Natural law? I think you might say an absolutely stable population is also unnatural. There’s some cases where you can’t win.

 

[elts1956]

No, you’re just evading my destruction of your attempted criteria for human rights as human DNA.

The alternative is overpopulation. Natural law? I think you might say an absolutely stable population is also unnatural. There’s some cases where you can’t win.

I’m not evading anything. I was only being polite in not calling you facetous before you called me such. DNA in hair That’s like my telling you plants have auras. And there are better ways of caring for one another than murder of infants.

 

[Schn]

I’m not evading anything. I was only being polite in not calling you facetous before you called me such. DNA in hair That’s like my telling you plants have auras. And there are better ways of caring for one another than murder of infants.

Yes, there is DNA in hair. I am sorry if you were ignorant of this fact.

 

[Jermosh]

You know, blood cells, stomach cells. Pretty much every cell in the human body has a complete copy of the DNA.

No because they are just parts of the over all Human Being with their unique person. This also covers cells that are malignant or have different DNA, they are again defined as part of the larger organism and do not account for a life. A fertilized egg is the start of a new and unique organism though, it has its own unique life.

I’m not interested in the american government. I’d like to argue from logic not authority.

Logic dictates many things though, if we look into Universal Natural Rights as defined by John Locke, we have the right to survive and thrive, but this is with the caveat that we can defend for them. This is why he felt a Govt could be good for man in that we would not have to defend constantly and would promote wealth.

You also have social equity, so does an unborn child have the same social equity of the pope? This is a weird mystery though, on one hand the Church states they both are equal in right to life, but they employ an army to protect the pope, but have strict rules forbidding violence for Pro-Life activities.

 

[Jermosh]

Yes, Natural Law is what I meant. The consequences of ignoring it are destructive. If you don’t plant that seed, if edible, you may starve. All things work together to create balance.

Who knows, maybe it does scream. Done any tests on it? Even plants have screams (voices) of their own. Also auras. Check it out.

Tobacco plant can call for help and warn surrounding plants as well.

 

[elts1956]

Yes, there is DNA in hair. I am sorry if you were ignorant of this fact.

And plants have auras. Sorry if you were ignorant of this fact.
I’ll double check on the scream bit.