A new "catholic" religion?

[carl36]

The Mass a meal rather than a sacrifice.
Guitars and drums instead of chant. “Halloween Masses”
No more confession.
Laymen distributing communion.
Smashing of the images and statues.
Barren churches.
Meat on Fridays and all through Lent.

Attende Domine et miserere, quia peccavimus tibi.

 

[st_bernard]

The Mass a meal rather than a sacrifice.
Guitars and drums instead of chant. “Halloween Masses”
No more confession.
Laymen distributing communion.
Smashing of the images and statues.
Barren churches.
Meat on Fridays and all through Lent.

Attende Domine et miserere, quia peccavimus tibi.

Gratia et Pax Vobiscum,

The Protestants have won!

After Mass last Sunday (3rd Sunday of Lent) I noticed a Deacon deliver a Homily which contradicted the readings and approached the Parish Priest with my concerns. He quickly told me that ‘we’ do not adhere to a “Works-Based Salvation” and place our trust in the Grace won for ‘us’ by Christ. After which I asked him if “it was okay to sin” and he quickly and with a big smile said “Yes” and added ‘My God’ is a loving God and does not Punish. Looking into his eyes and the eyes of many standing around me I walked out with a heavy heart.

The Protestants have won… There simply is no Catholic Church anymore.

Pax vobiscum.

 

[Ace86]

Sheesh the pessimism here is appalling. The gates of Hell shall not prevail. Don’t lose your faith over the idiotic actions of bad priests and the like! I haven’t lost mine.

 

[carl36]

Sheesh the pessimism here is appalling. The gates of Hell shall not prevail. Don’t lose your faith over the idiotic actions of bad priests and the like! I haven’t lost mine.

Quomodo sedet sola
civitas plena populo !
Facta est quasi vidua
domina gentium ;
princeps provinciarum
facta est sub tributo.

 

[Tonks40]

The Mass a meal rather than a sacrifice.
Guitars and drums instead of chant. “Halloween Masses”
No more confession.
Laymen distributing communion.
Smashing of the images and statues.
Barren churches.
Meat on Fridays and all through Lent.

Attende Domine et miserere, quia peccavimus tibi.

Stick around the Body of Christ for a while - I have a feeling you will not see these things.

And no, the protestants did not win…

 

[carl36]

Stick around the Body of Christ for a while - I have a feeling you will not see these things.

And no, the protestants did not win…

Cui comparabo te, vel cui assimilabo te,
filia Jerusalem ?
cui exæquabo te, et consolabor te,
virgo, filia Sion ?
magna est enim velut mare contritio tua :
quis medebitur tui ?

 

[RobedWithLight]

Gratia et Pax Vobiscum,

The Protestants have won!

After Mass last Sunday (3rd Sunday of Lent) I noticed a Deacon deliver a Homily which contradicted the readings and approached the Parish Priest with my concerns. He quickly told me that ‘we’ do not adhere to a “Works-Based Salvation” and place our trust in the Grace won for ‘us’ by Christ. After which I asked him if “it was okay to sin” and he quickly and with a big smile said “Yes” and added ‘My God’ is a loving God and does not Punish. Looking into his eyes and the eyes of many standing around me I walked out with a heavy heart.

The Protestants have won… There simply is no Catholic Church anymore.

Pax vobiscum.

If there is no Catholic Church anymore, what are you then?

The pessimism of some so-called “traditionalists” here is remarkable…

 

[songsinthenight]

Aw, shucks. Why are you on this forum? I hope not to try and kill other people’s faith in the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church. **If you believe there is no Catholic faith then you are no longer a Catholic. **

 

[carl36]

Of course there’s a Catholic Church still, but she is very illtreated by her children and it seems that God has left her in the hands of bad pastors not at all conformed to the Good Shepherd nor caring for the salvation of souls.

 

[songsinthenight]

I truly think that all this moaning how the Church is lost is a placation to the devil; a demonic ruse to cause despair. OR, perhaps more likely our own human frailty coming into play. “I’m a sheep with no shepherd- I can’t live out my faith, anyway.” (wrong) :yawn:

Pull yourself up, my man! Become who God wants you to be. Trust God. Avail yourself of the abundant, wonderful Catholic resources. Don’t hang out with negative people who love to dog the Church (and that includes on the internet)!

Also, Latin is/has traditionally been used liturgically-- day-to-day communication has always been in the vernacular, even among Catholics.

 

[carl36]

I just found the lamentations of Jeremias quite suiting, but as you said shouldn’t hang around negative people…

 

[Tech_Admin]

Do not despair; it is important for us to have hope. I also would like to restore some traditional elements to the Mass. These times of adversity produce perseverance and I believe that as more people recognize problems, these problems will be addressed. I know for myself, these problems caused me to question very many things which have led me to a deeper level of understanding of our Catholic faith. I now have a renewed Catholic spirit and a stronger intensity of love for God. I go to confession regularly and my prayerlife is stronger. I know I am not alone. As Jesus reminded us, the Catholic Church will always prevail.

I love the both the TLM and a respectful, reverent NO Mass. At least some Latin elements should be introduced into the NO Mass. Beautiful latin music should be gradually introduced. Better catechesis. Stronger men and women dedicated to stronger Catholic families…

I am sympathetic to SSPX. Pro FSSP. We need always be in union with the Church; this is paramount. There were people before who recognized problems within the Church before and tried to take care of things themselves because they foolishly thought they knew better than the Church: they are known as Protestants.

Santify ourselves and we will santify society.

Pray for the Pope. Pray for the Church. Pray for Families, vocations, and pray that God send us saints.
Dedicate our every action towards serving God.

 

[LilyM]

Sheesh the pessimism here is appalling. The gates of Hell shall not prevail. Don’t lose your faith over the idiotic actions of bad priests and the like! I haven’t lost mine.

Good heavens - anyone would think that there had never ever been such a thing as a problem with the Church or its priests prior to Vatican 2.

Any of you heard of a little thing called the Reformation? the Arian heresy? Both of which had huge proportions of Christendom deserting the Church and its doctrines?

The Church wasn’t destroyed by them and certianly won’t be by the outcomes of Vatican 2 either.

 

[Genesis315]

Maybe your country is different, but here in the US, the Mass is still a sacrifice, confession is still a sacrament (and is offered at every Catholic parish I’ve ever seen), the disciplinary rules for the US require abstinence from meat on Lenten Fridays and some sort of penance if not abstinance from meat on other Fridays (which makes sure you have to do something that is actually penitential, rather than just having a big cheese pizza or salmon dinner).

 

[BobP123]

Maybe your country is different, but here in the US, the Mass is still a sacrifice, confession is still a sacrament (and is offered at every Catholic parish I’ve ever seen), the disciplinary rules for the US require abstinence from meat on Lenten Fridays and some sort of penance if not abstinance from meat on other Fridays (which makes sure you have to do something that is actually penitential, rather than just having a big cheese pizza or salmon dinner).

You are absolutely correct. It was difficult to see this during the turmoil years following Vatican II and it became very easy to blame Pope Paul VI for this turmoil, but I think it’s becoming much clearer to most Catholics now during the reign of the more current Pontiffs where their spirituality should be focused.

 

[jaeh68]

Nice to see some balanced discussion here… I think a lot of the pre-post Vatican II debate arises from ignorance of history and lack of perspective. Pope Pius V decreed that Mass be said universally in Latin in 1570 - granted, that’s a long time ago, but for some 1500 years prior to that, it was said in the local languages. So Latin Mass is a reletively ‘new’ thing in the whole history of the church.

Gregorian chants get their name from Pope Gregory I (590-604) - I am often tempted to ask what the church did for music for the 500 years prior to that, and whether the advocates of the previous kind of music were as disappointed by the addition of these ‘new’ chants - which were, of course, the ‘popular’ music of the time.

Don’t get me wrong - I like Latin Mass and Gregorian chants… but I like the new things too, and I believe there is room for both. We Catholics can get a bit smug sometimes, make jokes about the Protestents who think the King James Bible fell out of the sky or Jesus used it or something, yet we can be just as ignorant and short-sighted about the origins and history of our own Catholic tradition.

Jae

 

[ThereCanBeOnly1]

Of course there’s a Catholic Church still, but she is very illtreated by her children and it seems that God has left her in the hands of bad pastors not at all conformed to the Good Shepherd nor caring for the salvation of souls.

No doubt.

 

[ThereCanBeOnly1]

Nice to see some balanced discussion here… I think a lot of the pre-post Vatican II debate arises from ignorance of history and lack of perspective. Pope Pius V decreed that Mass be said universally in Latin in 1570 - granted, that’s a long time ago, but for some 1500 years prior to that, it was said in the local languages. So Latin Mass is a reletively ‘new’ thing in the whole history of the church.

But Also:

In his famous Bull Quo Primum, Pope St. Pius V forbade changing the traditional Latin Mass.** Pope St. Pius V, Quo Primum Tempore, July 14, 1570:** “Now, therefore, in order that all everywhere may adopt and observe what has been
delivered to them by the Holy Roman Church, Mother and Mistress of the other churches, it shall be unlawful henceforth and forever throughout the Christian world to sing or to
read Masses according to any formula other than this Missal published by Us… Accordingly, no one whosoever is permitted to infringe or rashly contravene this notice of Our permission, statute, ordinance, command, direction, grant, indult, declaration, will, decree, and prohibition. Should any venture to do so, let him understand that he will incur the wrath of Almighty God and of the blessed Apostles Peter and Paul.”(Pope St. Pius V, Bull Quo Primum, July 14, 1570.)

Respectfully and God+ Bless.

 

[LilyM]

But Also:

In his famous Bull Quo Primum, Pope St. Pius V forbade changing the traditional Latin Mass.** Pope St. Pius V, Quo Primum Tempore, July 14, 1570:** “Now, therefore, in order that all everywhere may adopt and observe what has been
delivered to them by the Holy Roman Church, Mother and Mistress of the other churches, it shall be unlawful henceforth and forever throughout the Christian world to sing or to
read Masses according to any formula other than this Missal published by Us… Accordingly, no one whosoever is permitted to infringe or rashly contravene this notice of Our permission, statute, ordinance, command, direction, grant, indult, declaration, will, decree, and prohibition. Should any venture to do so, let him understand that he will incur the wrath of Almighty God and of the blessed Apostles Peter and Paul.”(Pope St. Pius V, Bull Quo Primum, July 14, 1570.)

Respectfully and God+ Bless.

The form of the Mass is a disciplinary matter, and there WERE a number of changes made to it between the time of Pius V and Paul VI, so clearly Pius couldn’t bind future Popes to leave it completely untouched. And Pius himself permitted other rites to continue to exist alongside his own, so it’s not a matter of there being only one ‘correct’ rite either.

Whether prudentially it was good or wise to make the drastic innovations that happened under Paul VI is one matter, but there’s no doubting that he had the authority to do so.

 

[BobP123]

Nice to see some balanced discussion here… I think a lot of the pre-post Vatican II debate arises from ignorance of history and lack of perspective. Pope Pius V decreed that Mass be said universally in Latin in 1570 - granted, that’s a long time ago, but for some 1500 years prior to that, it was said in the local languages. So Latin Mass is a reletively ‘new’ thing in the whole history of the church.
Jae

Actually no. Latin Masses have in some form been around since the 4th century and who knows before then. Latin has been the norm for a very long time. While it is true the first Masses were in fact said in Greek, after the Latin Mass was introduced in Africa, Catholicism flourished there and everywhere else it was introduced.

It’s interesting also that the Romans embraced Greek art and language more than their own Latin. So one should wonder if Latin was really ever considered a local language anywhere.
But don’t hold me to that. And it’s not necessarily a bad thing either.