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john_ennis
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Others? What others? You may consider some others to be people, but who are you to impose that view on me?
A new cause of immorality exposed sorry conservatives this one is enviromental
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Traditional_Ang
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Liberalsaved:
How is refusing to teach people that which will give them eternal life going to make their lives easier or make them free?
How is refusing to teach them the facts as the Church has found about Contraception v. Noncontraception going to make their lives easier when it results in more divorce and disruption to families?
How is refusing to teach women what they know in their hearts about the babies in their wombs going to make them happier and really free?
Several of us know eomen who’ve had Abortions, and there’s an apostolate called Rachel’s Project, where women go to share their heartrending stories. Maybe you should listen, instead of just giving the Pro-Abortion, Anti-Catholic Company Line.
Jesus said that He came that, “They might have LIFE and have it more ABUNDANTLY.”
Why do you think following Him is slavery? Are you willing to bet your soul that He didn’t rise from the dead?
Because that’s what you’re doing!
The priests admitted as much when the bribed the soldiers to say they slept while the disciples stole the body and then got Pilate not to punush them as watchmen who fell asleep were to be punished. Do you have any idea what happened to watchmen who fell asleep in the Roman Legions?
The tomb was EMPTY. Why do you think it was EMPTY?
If you believed that Jesus suffered and died for you and that He was raised on the 3rd day, I don’t think you argue against His Church for a minute on this.
In Christ, Michael
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Liberalsaved
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How does that translate into letting peopel do literally whatever they want no matter who else it harms?
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Liberalsaved
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john ennis:
I’m not. I was asked. I can’t impose it on you any more than you can impose yours on others. And I don’t wish to. I was under the impression we were having an open discussion.
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john_ennis
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Sorry my irony was weak.
I was maintaining that every protest you make re slavery (which I of course agree with), would be susceptible to arguments against prohibiting abortion, if those arguments are valid.
The fact that someone doesn’t believe that another is a person, in no way takes away that person’s rights.
Peace.
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Liberalsaved
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john ennis:
In response to the first bit, that can be said of a great many things. Anything, really. Every path we take leaves behind a path we did not take. And every path we take creates new paths. We cannot refuse to do something good because MAYBE it will have negative repurcussions, or because maybe it will open the doors to those who wish to pervert our lives and ideals and make them dark.
Turning away from our light because we fear the dark it may lead to is no way to live.
But the fact that you beleive they are a person does not take away the rights of the person carrying them.
In response to the first bit, that can be said of a great many things. Anything, really. Every path we take leaves behind a path we did not take. And every path we take creates new paths. We cannot refuse to do something good because MAYBE it will have negative repurcussions, or because maybe it will open the doors to those who wish to pervert our lives and ideals and make them dark.
Turning away from our light because we fear the dark it may lead to is no way to live.
Ah! you are wise.
Harming others is of paramount concern.
So, once you recognize the harm that is caused by some behaviors, what are you going to do about it?
Is it really an affront to freedom to outlaw abortion? Or does it benefit freedom? We know the harm abortion causes. Is prevention of this harm to all parties involved not a worthy cause?
Is it really a problem to teach againt artificial birth control? We know the harm it causes as well. Preventing harm is what we are after here, right?
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Traditional_Ang
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Liberalsaved:
I want to see LOGIC that differentiates a Black person from a fetus since you refuse to call a fetus a human being. Most people on your side of the fence when confronted with this logical problem are willing to admit that the fetus is a HUMAN BEING and then come up with some explanation as to how the fetus is not a HUMAN PERSON.
This matters, because in most Muslim countries most of us here would be called DHIMMI, that is Legal Aliens with no rights save those given by our Muslim Masters, and those who are Hindus, Budhists, etc are called KHAFIR, and they have the same rights fetuses do in your system.
Until the Movement to Abolish slavery gained steam, most people saw Blacks as Muslims see Dhimmi. I’d like to see something that either insures that no human being walking or sleeping on this earth cannot have their humanity taken away from them by some LOGICAL SOPHISTRY or to see you admit that you have no logic to support your position.
I’m sorry to have to bring in people whom our nation and others in this world have done such great harm into this argument, but Abortion is our Slavery and our Holocaust. Abortion is our great evil which will sooner or later require repayment in blood and suffering as the terrible sin of slavery once did, and as Segregation and “JIm Crow” nearly did.
In Christ, Michael
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Traditional_Ang
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To all African Americans:
In my zeal to make a point about how terrible Liberalsaved’s logic is, I used an analogy that potentially compaired African Americans to (I don’t wish to repeat it). The Logic was terrible., but I should not have used that analogy.
I’m sorry.
I really hate Abortion and what it has done to our country. I hate the fact that over 46,000,000 babies have been slaughtered in this country alone since 1973, most in the name of convenience.
I hate what it has done to out inner cities, and the damage it has done to so many young lives, black and white.
I beg you to take it on where the logic of the abortionists must and is leading us, and not what I think of any African Americans on this board or elsewhere.
And for any who were offended, I beg for your forgiveness.
In Christ, Michael
In my zeal to make a point about how terrible Liberalsaved’s logic is, I used an analogy that potentially compaired African Americans to (I don’t wish to repeat it). The Logic was terrible., but I should not have used that analogy.
I’m sorry.
I really hate Abortion and what it has done to our country. I hate the fact that over 46,000,000 babies have been slaughtered in this country alone since 1973, most in the name of convenience.
I hate what it has done to out inner cities, and the damage it has done to so many young lives, black and white.
I beg you to take it on where the logic of the abortionists must and is leading us, and not what I think of any African Americans on this board or elsewhere.
And for any who were offended, I beg for your forgiveness.
In Christ, Michael
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Traditional_Ang
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john ennis:
Well said. I don’t think Liberalsaved gets the idea that we’re human beings because God forms us in the womb and knows us by name before our parents name us, and that all of these things happen whether he wants to admit them or not.
God bless you.
In Christ, Michael
John Ennis:
Well said. I don’t think Liberalsaved gets the idea that we’re human beings because God forms us in the womb and knows us by name before our parents name us, and that all of these things happen whether he wants to admit them or not.
God bless you.
In Christ, Michael
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Liberalsaved
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The difference is that a person using birth control is in charge of their own body. I do not see a fetus as a human until it meets the criteria of ability to think late in the pregnancy. This is where I stand. I would not abort a baby at all, were it my choice, BUT IT IS NOT. It is your choice to not abort a child you and your spouse may have. It comes down to choice. A thinking human is different than a sperm that may become a human or a newly formed fetus.
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Liberalsaved
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I also should note that the last line remains my opinion and no more proven than the opposing point of view, I just, to be honest, get tired of having to point out when something is an opinion.
So a human that is not thinking is not worth as much as one that is? How do we measure this thinking?
Are we talking about abstract thought?
Theoretical physics?
Rocket Science?
Is someone that thinks a great deal more human then someone that does not think as much?
Is the retarded child worth less then The holder of a Doctorate?
Your line is suddenly blurry. And you still have not addressed the harm that abortion does to the mother.
You recognize the need for laws to prevent harm, but you fail to address one of the greatest harms.
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Liberalsaved
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The ability to form a thought. Regardless of whatever one may beleive, there is a point before which a fetus does not have that ability at all.
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Liberalsaved
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I’m actually advocating the lack of a restriction. But I thought we were having a discussion. Until you can stop twisting my words and taking shots at me, we’re done talking.There should be no need to point out that you are advocating laws based on your opinion.
I see a healthy bit of irony here.
You claim to criticize people who believe their opinion should be law…
And that is your opinion on where the line should be drawn?
Interesting. And arbitrary.
But I am curious how you address the issue of taking a human life. You see, wether thinking or not, it is alive, and unique, and human.
Further, your position is increasingly untenable since it stands on opinion (yours), and as stated earlier, there is a problem with making law out of opinion.
And yet earlier you were advocating laws to prevent harm.
In any instance, my apologies if you feel I am twisting your words.
I assure you that is not the intent. The intent was to confront you with the reality of what your words were saying.
You criticize those whose believe their opinions should be law, but advocate laws resembling your own opinions.
You advocate laws to prevent harm to others and to oneself, but do not advocate laws that restrict behavior.
You recognize harm in restricting behavior, but cannot see harm in unrestricted behavior.
You believe life begins with the ability to form a thought, but fail to recognize that we cannot measure that.
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