A new wrinkle on the Primacy of Peter

[NotWorthy]

If you will allow me, I’d like to show something that has often been overlooked in the whole “Peter the Rock” scenario. I found this extremely interesting and would like to get your take on it. This comes from “Catholic for a Reason III”:

Matthew notes that six days before the Transfiguration (the Transfiguration took place during the feast of the Tabernacles), which would have been the Feast of Atonement, something quite remarkable took place between Jesus and Peter. Recall that the Feast of the Atonement was the one occasion when the High Priest was permitted to pronounce the hallowed name of God, Yahweh, which was God’s special revelation of His own identity to Moses on Mount Sinai. Recall that God said to Moses, “I Am who I Am”, and “Say this to the people of Israel, 'I Am has sent me to you’” (Ex. 3:13-14). If “Yahweh” or “I Am” is to be the divine name, it is significant that in Matthew 16:15, Jesus asks the apostles, “Who do you say that I Am?” Simon Peter responds, “You are the Christ, the son of the Living God”. Jesus then calls it a direct revelation from God the Father. He says to Peter, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church” (Mt. 16:17-18). This remarkable passage seems to cast Peter, by his disclosure of Jesus’ previously hidden identity, in the role of the High Priest, who alone speaks the revealed name on the Day of Atonement. Jesus even calls Peter by his given name “Simon Bar-Jona,” which was also the name of a famous High Priest of the Maccabean era whose praises are sung in a passage in Sirach 50:1-20.

It is worth spending this much time recalling this one fulfillment of a Jewish feast because it shows the coinciding of the feast’s fulfillment with the establishment of the authority of Peter and the foundation of the Church. This new Church, of which Peter is to be the rock foundation, will be the heir of the feasts of the Jewish liturgical year, transformed and perfected in Christ, and the agent in the establishment of the new liturgy that will fulfill the old.

Notworthy

 

[Pax]

You sparked some curiousity in me concerning the name “Simon son of Jonah” in Matthew 16:15 and “Simon son of Onias” in Sirach 50:1-20. I am not any kind of expert on names and their significance in scripture, but I do find the cross over meanings in the ancestory of the two Simons to be rather striking.

Jonah means “dove” and in the NT the Holy Spirit is described as descending in the form of a dove. Jesus says that Peter received his knowledge of Jesus as messiah through inspiration and not by flesh and blood. It would appear that the Holy Spirit was at work here.

The name Onias means “boats” or “sailors.” Simon Peter was a fisherman and we are frequently told about things that happened to the apostles while on the sea of Galilee and of Peter’s boat. We are also told that Jesus will make Peter and the apostles fisher’s of men. We even hear terms like the “barque(ship) of Peter.”

I don’t think that any of this is mere coincidence. Instead it is simply another part of the intricate and beautiful tapestry of scripture woven by God through the inspired word.

 

[NotWorthy]

Pax, that is so cool! I never looked at it that way, either!

The more I study the bible, the more I regret the fact that we (Catholics and Non-Catholics, alike) do not fully see the depths of the Testaments.

An analogy that comes to mind is watching a 3-d movie. If we just read the bible, we’re watching the movie without the glasses. But the more we study the bible, the ancient culture and traditions, we are putting on our 3-d glasses and fully appreciating the movie!

NotWorthy

 

[CindyGia]

Wow! That’s all I have to say…WOW!

oh, - I’ve noticed as well hundreds of other small “inter-woven” passages like that one. Especially mentioned in the OT then somehow subtley mentioned again in the New but in a whole new light. It’s quite amazing how God worked that out through the pages from one prophet to the next in their writings.

The Bible is just an awe inspiring mystically woven book of love for mankind. We only need to really take the time to “read it” and see the “secret garden” that dwells within it’s pages.

God Bless.

 

[MrS]

Good, no great, post… I have been accumulating OT/NT “crossovers” (for want of a better name).

Just more evidence that Scripture is not a collection of “accidental” writings.

 

[Fidelis]

Awesome! This whole series (Catholic For A Reason I-III) are incredible books, and I highly recommend them. They are just chock full of this kind of stuff. They aren’t Bible studies,* per se*, but the wealth of Scriptural insight you can gain from them is priceless.

Note: the insights found in these books aren’t “new”–they are the fruit of 2000 years of meditaion on the Scriptures by great Catholic saints that are being uncovered for our biblically illiterate ears. We Catholics are sitting on a goldmine of rich bullion and, often, waste our time looking elsewhere for gold dust.

 

[MrS]

Anyone up for starting a thread of *“Connections Between the Old
Testament and the New Testament” * ?

 

[Fidelis]

MrS:

Anyone up for starting a thread of *“Connections Between the Old
Testament and the New Testament” * ?

I think there was a recent thread on “Typology.”

 

[shannin]

Fidelis:

Awesome! This whole series (Catholic For A Reason I-III) are incredible books, and I highly recommend them. They are just chock full of this kind of stuff. They aren’t Bible studies,* per se*, but the wealth of Scriptural insight you can gain from them is priceless.
Note: the insights found in these books aren’t “new”–they are the fruit of 2000 years of meditaion on the Scriptures by great Catholic saints that are being uncovered for our biblically illiterate ears. We Catholics are sitting on a goldmine of rich bullion and, often, waste our time looking elsewhere for gold dust.

Thank you for sharing. I hope a lot of Protestants read this thread. :tiphat:

 

[neophyte]

NotWorthy,

Thanks for a good find. That book series is now on my aquisition list.

A few days ago I told my wife (who’s a Jew) that she’s the reason I became a Catholic. When I started going to Temple with her, all kinds of lights started popping in my head, it was like puzzle pieces that suddenly started fitting together, and I became aware of how much Christianity (really Protestantism but I didn’t realise it until later) had deprived itself by forgetting its Jewish roots. So I started to study a bit, and by the time I stumbled on Catholic radio I was ripe for the picking because Catholicism is so Jewish!

It was like the graphic art pieces that look like a bunch of 2-D squiggly lines until you look at it in just the right manner, at which time a 3-D image jumps out at you. If you haven’t seen it yet, you can’t believe it’s there and you haven’t the slightest idea what the believers are talking about, but once you see it you wonder how you had missed it!

 

[DOXA]

**

Mathhew 18:18

“αμην λεγω υμιν οσα εαν δησητε επι της γης εσται δεδεμενα εν τω ουρανω και οσα εαν λυσητε επι της γης εσται λελυμενα εν τω ουρανω.”

(The bold sections are in plural).

To Bind and Loose using the keys of the kingdom of heaven therefore are not only for one person; the Spirit may not be monopolised.

St Paul does not say that Peter alone is the pillar of the Church but includes John and James. At the Jerusalem council it was James who presided. At Peter’s death there was no frantic search for Peter’s heir and successor as if he were the king. Neither was he ever called vicar or prince or head of anyone while he lived. His apparent and implied leadership was one out of respect not one out of divine institution.

Our Lord teaches us that we ought to pray for our leaders and to give unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar yet to give unto God what rightfully belongs to God.

**

 

[CindyGia]

Mathhew 18:18

“αμην λεγω υμιν οσα εαν δησητε επι της γης εσται δεδεμενα εν τω ουρανω και οσα εαν λυσητε επι της γης εσται λελυμενα εν τω ουρανω.”

English translation:

18: Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

ok, am I missing something here?

 

[Fidelis]

DOXA:

To Bind and Loose using the keys of the kingdom of heaven therefore are not only for one person; the Spirit may not be monopolised.

The verse you cite addresses the other Apostles, but Mt 16 addresses Peter alone. In addition, he is given the keys, unlike Mt 18 where no individual authority to bind or loose is given.

St Paul does not say that Peter alone is the pillar of the Church but includes John and James.

This passage by Paul does not address primacy and/or authority. Matthew 16 does.

At the Jerusalem council it was James who presided.

…Because they were meeting n Jerusalem and James was the bishop of Jerusalem. It is clear that Peter had the last word (Acts 15:12) and James merely laid down how the decision would be implemented.

At Peter’s death there was no frantic search for Peter’s heir and successor as if he were the king.

There didn’t have to be since his successor was the next bishop of Rome. There is ample historical evidence for this.

Neither was he ever called vicar or prince or head of anyone while he lived. His apparent and implied leadership was one out of respect not one out of divine institution.

The titles themselves were obviously developed later based on what the Church had always believed. An insistence that they be mentioned in the Scriptures is to embrace a Sola Scriptura type of error.

These charges are all common Protestant and Orthodox false interpretations and have been answered ad nauseum in these forums.

 

[Forest-Pine]

This one is fascinating to me. The discussion was the difference between the Western churches using unleavened bread while the Easterners use leavened bread. They argued, then, if Jesus’ Last Supper was on the Seder (when unleavened bread would be used) or the night before the Seder (when leavened bread would be used). Ghosty provided a very rich connection between the OT Seder and the NT Last Supper, including Jesus’ prayer in the Garden for the cup to pass from his lips.

Here are the fascinating posts:
#18
#44
#47
#57

 

[LSK]

Not Worthy, you sure are something…I deeply appreciated the post. I think you showed that, indeed, Peter was chosen to lead the other Bishops…that the Holy Spirit was at work in all of them, and that the humble man chosen by Our Lord was indeed the Rock, in both person and faith, to lead our early Christian Community.

I think it is all of us, this time, who are
:bowdown:

Not Worthy…

 

[MrS]

Fidelis:

These charges are all common Protestant and Orthodox false interpretations and have been answered ad nauseum in these forums.

And you did so quite will… thanks… nice job.

 

[DOXA]

These charges are all common Protestant and Orthodox false interpretations and have been answered ad nauseum in these forums.

2/3rds of Christianity is wrong and 1/3 (Catholicism) is right? Where’s the maths in that? There is a lot you can learn from the Protestants, btw, if only you would listen. Haven’t you ever heard the old saying that “Your enemy is your best friend”?

Furthermore, how can you claim Orthodox interpretations are false when they are fully backed by Holy Scripture and 2000 y/o tradition? Are you now claiming that the Pope was also given authority by Jesus to contradict Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition?

 

[NotWorthy]

neophyte:

NotWorthy,

A few days ago I told my wife (who’s a Jew) that she’s the reason I became a Catholic. When I started going to Temple with her, all kinds of lights started popping in my head, it was like puzzle pieces that suddenly started fitting together, and I became aware of how much Christianity (really Protestantism but I didn’t realise it until later) had deprived itself by forgetting its Jewish roots. So I started to study a bit, and by the time I stumbled on Catholic radio I was ripe for the picking because Catholicism is so Jewish!

It was like the graphic art pieces that look like a bunch of 2-D squiggly lines until you look at it in just the right manner, at which time a 3-D image jumps out at you. If you haven’t seen it yet, you can’t believe it’s there and you haven’t the slightest idea what the believers are talking about, but once you see it you wonder how you had missed it!

Your analogy of the puzzle pieces is EXACTLY the same thoughts I’ve had over the past year. When I get a new piece of information, such as this Simon-Bar Jonah reference, I mentally hear a “click” in my head, the sound of a puzzle being snapped into place.

If you appreciate the Jewish-Catholic relationship, go immediately to the bookstore and buy Catholic for a Reason III, go straight to the chapter on Jewish Festivals and their Catholic link, AND YOU WILL BE AMAZED! It, as are many of the other chapters are incredible!!!

NotWorthy

 

[yochumjy]

DOXA:

2/3rds of Christianity is wrong and 1/3 (Catholicism) is right? Where’s the maths in that? There is a lot you can learn from the Protestants, btw, if only you would listen. Haven’t you ever heard the old saying that “Your enemy is your best friend”?

Well, the question is. Is God’s will truly dependant on a majority of opinions here on earth? And since the other 2/3rds aren’t fully in agreement about much of anything, what does that say?

DOXA:

Furthermore, how can you claim Orthodox interpretations are false when they are fully backed by Holy Scripture and 2000 y/o tradition? Are you now claiming that the Pope was also given authority by Jesus to contradict Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition?

Instead of making accusations with no backing, please explain what contradictions any Pope has made about Holy Scripture and Tradition.

 

[gryskull]

Forest-Pine:

This one is fascinating to me. The discussion was the difference between the Western churches using unleavened bread while the Easterners use leavened bread. They argued, then, if Jesus’ Last Supper was on the Seder (when unleavened bread would be used) or the night before the Seder (when leavened bread would be used). Ghosty provided a very rich connection between the OT Seder and the NT Last Supper, including Jesus’ prayer in the Garden for the cup to pass from his lips.

Here are the fascinating posts:
#18
#44
#47
#57

Hey, thanks for the link FOREST. I really learned a lot.